Paying for dates

[lesa]

yes, i was talking about splitting when i go on dates and not ever paying when i go out with male friends.

May I ask your reasons for this behavior?

[IndiReloaded]

Can we close this thread? I think the OP has her answer.

[lesa]

JoeProgrammer has two options:

Girl A: Nice girl. Not in love. No sex. Pay for everything.
Girl B: Nice girl. Not in love. Sex. Pay for everything.

What do you think Joe will do?

Joe is:

A. Religeous. Girl A 50% / Girl B 50%
B. Beta. Girl A 100% / Girl B 0% because he can't get her.
C. Average Joe who has the option of dating either. Girl A 0%/ Girl B 100%

What if Girl A is a medical director of a top medical hospital, owns several real estates, likes to travel around the world every 6 months, likes long term relationships, speaks several languages fluently, very sexual, fine and beautiful?

And Girl B works as a cashier of a fast food restaurant, has no plans to go to college or other education, has no plans to improve her lifesytle or maintain her looks and figure, cannot maintain a long term relationship, jumps from one guy to another...barely in a "real relationship with these men", very sexual (just ask the neighborhood), but extremely poor self esteem?

Who do you want?

Now to really answer this question I need to know who are you, what are your goals, how's your self perception and self esteem, are you romantic, and what are your expectations with these women? Are you looking for a serious relationship, a sex toy, a woman to fulfill your white knight syndrome, what?


Oh, and elminate the "pays for everything". We understand that now.

[Vodka]

*shakes head*

Have you ever watched the movie 'Swingers'? I've seen so many professional women say men are intimidated by them... You're thinking in gender centric terms.

Men aren't interested in professional women because men aren't looking for status. They look for youth and beauty. Professional women are a negative because they think their mate value is somehow increased by their profession. It's not from a male perspective.

I guarantee you, if you got an honest answer from men whether they would prefer to date a Medical Director or a Playboy Bunny, the Bunny would win every time.

[Mish]

What I really dislike is people who make a big deal out of this thing. I think both guys and girls if they go out should be prepared to pay at least for themselves and not rely on the other person. Personally I choose to pay for my date, not because if I don't pay means I don't really want to be with her, but because I don't want this to be a subject of "debate" later on. But even in this mental framework I still had girls who would stick their money into my pockets after I paid for them and then MONTHS later argue that I didn't REALLY pay for them like a gentlemen. Wtf? It's a non issue. It's much ado about nothing. Personally I've come to believe that people who make a big deal out of this are just attracted to drama and are not worth wasting my time on.

[lesa]

*shakes head*

Have you ever watched the movie 'Swingers'? I've seen so many professional women say men are intimidated by them... You're thinking in gender centric terms.

Men aren't interested in professional women because men aren't looking for status. They look for youth and beauty. Professional women are a negative because they think their mate value is somehow increased by their profession. It's not from a male perspective.

I guarantee you, if you got an honest answer from men whether they would prefer to date a Medical Director or a Playboy Bunny, the Bunny would win every time.

Interesting.

Well that's still a particular status for the female is it not?

Are you able to answer my question?

Anyway, we are off topic. Perhaps another time?

[momofp3rson]

*shakes head*

Have you ever watched the movie 'Swingers'? I've seen so many professional women say men are intimidated by them... You're thinking in gender centric terms.

Men aren't interested in professional women because men aren't looking for status. They look for youth and beauty. Professional women are a negative because they think their mate value is somehow increased by their profession. It's not from a male perspective.

I guarantee you, if you got an honest answer from men whether they would prefer to date a Medical Director or a Playboy Bunny, the Bunny would win every time.

sooooo....you are saying that men are shallow and self serving and are mainly looking for the types of women that will feed their sagging egos?

and I think that you're bulls##itting about all these "professional women" that have confided to you about their relationship issues. I know lots of professional women and they don't seem to feel that they are intimidating to men. most of them are happily married or involved.

or is that just what happened in the movie you watched?

on the other hand....what do YOU mean by "professional women"........? considering the source...that might refer to a specific profession.

you're an ass....really.

[vashti]

JoeProgrammer has two options:

Girl A: Nice girl. Not in love. No sex. Pay for everything.
Girl B: Nice girl. Not in love. Sex. Pay for everything.

What do you think Joe will do?

Joe is:

A. Religeous. Girl A 50% / Girl B 50%
B. Beta. Girl A 100% / Girl B 0% because he can't get her.
C. Average Joe who has the option of dating either. Girl A 0%/ Girl B 100%

Aww, geez. Don't tell me you're another one of those guys who read those stupid PUA books.

Anyway, I assume not every man out there is only interested in loveless sex. Obviously it is easy enough to avoid men like this.

BTW - Swingers was a dumb movie.

[Aeradalia]

In today's world... especially in America... the traditional gender roles are changing... so everything is in a state of flux and uncertainty. Some have traditional views, while others are more progressive.

Because of this uncertainty of proper etiquette - and which 'version' of etiquette a person is following - the safest thing to do is just to ask early on in the relationship or in dating, whether they have traditional values or progressive values. Then follow this conversation to the topic of who should pay for meals and why/how...

It would be nice to have assumed etiquette in such things, but in this day and age... there is simply too much changing in views going about - much safer to just ask. This is applicable to more than just who pays for the meal.

[Only-virgins]

I disagree completely with the others. If he asks you out, he is SUPPOSED to pay.

Agreed. Nice and simple answer really.

Obviously it is easy enough to avoid men like this.

Obviously not, women seem to be having a huge problem avoiding men like that.

Medical Director or a Playboy Bunny, the Bunny would win every time.

I would date the Medical doctor who looks like a playboy bunny but isn't as much of a ****ing slut. Men do look for status, but not work force status but sexual status ...less previous partners = better....it is embarrassing to date a slut...playboy bunny fails here on an epic level.

men are shallow and self serving

No, that is not men...that is the entire human species. Men are more self serving but not shallow. Looking for a men who is going to pay for your shit isn't any better and that is what most women do.

[Only-virgins]

Oh and I gave a homeless guy on the street 10 bucks today, wtf would I care for spending 12 dollars on a date with a girl I want to spend time with? ****, its just freaking money.

[starbuck]

Personally I don't have any hard and fast rules about whether or not the guy SHOULD pay. However, I feel like if you have that expectation (which is ok by the way), and he doesn't meet it, then it might just be a mismatch of values.

There are alot of guys out there who were raised to always pay for the woman as you were raised to expect it. Maybe they're a dying breed, but I had an ex who refused to let me pay for dinners. He said he just didn't feel right about it even know he knew that I was perfectly able and willing to pay. Of course, he was in his fifties and perhaps there was a generational component. Or maybe it's because the men here in NYC tend to be more cosmopolitan and just grab the check automatically.

I know you said you really like this guy, but perhaps you should rethink this disparity in values that the both of you have. It makes me wonder what other things you may not see eye to eye on.

[Only-virgins]

Personally I don't have any hard and fast rules about whether or not the guy SHOULD pay. However, I feel like if you have that expectation (which is ok by the way), and he doesn't meet it, then it might just be a mismatch of values.

There are alot of guys out there who were raised to always pay for the woman as you were raised to expect it. Maybe they're a dying breed, but I had an ex who refused to let me pay for dinners. He said he just didn't feel right about it even know he knew that I was perfectly able and willing to pay. Of course, he was in his fifties and perhaps there was a generational component. Or maybe it's because the men here in NYC tend to be more cosmopolitan and just grab the check automatically.

I know you said you really like this guy, but perhaps you should rethink this disparity in values that the both of you have. It makes me wonder what other things you may not see eye to eye on.

You dated some dude in his 50s? aren't in your 20s?

[Indignant]

Aww, geez. Don't tell me you're another one of those guys who read those stupid PUA books.

Anyway, I assume not every man out there is only interested in loveless sex. Obviously it is easy enough to avoid men like this.

BTW - Swingers was a dumb movie.

i am not responding to this quote. just want to ask Vashti something. does that not worry that a girl 18 years of age is already on her 3rd relationship.

here's another example. as i've said before, my sister is 21, unemplyed and a full time student. i am always giving her money when she goes on a date, even though she's been seeing this guy for 3 years already and he has his own business. i am always teaching her to be independent and never relying on his money. since she has no income of her own i am always the one buying him gifts for all occasions.

the point that i was trying to make, is there's no excuse for being a student. there are always parent who should be providing for you and making sure that you have enough money to buy yourself food.

[starbuck]

You dated some dude in his 50s? aren't in your 20s?

Nope, not in my twenties, OV, I'm 3 years away from being 40.

Go ahead and have a field day.