The God Illusion?

[IndiReloaded]

Calling your argument BS is not a personal attack, Mish. I'm surprised at you. I would have expected you to understand the difference. You need to study the rules of argumentation a bit more.

Don't make personal attacks asswipe

This^, on the other hand, IS a personal attack.

But you are forgiven for your ignorance. In all things. Your intentions are good, if misguided.

But, since you cannot keep it civil, presumably b/c you are becoming too emotional about this subject, I will now disengage.

[NeoSeminole]

Mishanya says:

"Don't make personal attacks asswipe"

??? I never saw her make a personal attack.

[IndiReloaded]

You just described one with Secular Humanism

Okay, if you want to call it an 'atheist school' that's up to you. Its not, but fine.

But, you asked if there were any 'atheist' examples of having a positive life outlook. You said there weren't any, I just gave an example.

Next.

[Mish]

Calling your argument BS is not a personal attack, Mish.

You didn't call my argument a BS, you accused me of making BS. There is a difference.

Resist the temptation, don't do it.

[IndiReloaded]

LOL, thanks Neo. Emotions are going up, which means intellect is going down. I think I'll leave Mish to his belief system, it is clear rational argument isn't going to dissuade him from it, only make him intractable.

I'll just go back to my kitchen now.

[IndiReloaded]

You are making up BS now, kind of like what Cam described in the other thread.

This refers to your argument, Mish. Sorry doll, wrong again.

So far, you are the only one who has slung an insult...

[Mish]

But, you asked if there were any 'atheist' examples of having a positive life outlook. You said there weren't any, I just gave an example.

And I thanked you for it. But I also showed you that it doesn't address the problem at the core of Atheism and that only a fraction of Atheists subscribe to it, while the view that life has no meaning and purpose and that any morals are questionable is popular amongst Atheists.

[IndiReloaded]

Again, you are making generalizations without proof. Those references you provided are obscure, at best.

Did you go to the website I gave you? Did you see the list of well-known SHists?

Why don't you refer to Freethinkers, if atheism goes up your nose? In any case, both reject the need for invoking a fictional being to lead a good life, Mish. So does SH, for that matter.

[Mish]

I think I'll leave Mish to his belief system, it is clear rational argument isn't going to dissuade him from it, only make him intractable.

Indi, you have no idea how much I despise it when you try to show yourself up as holding the "rational high ground" in a conversation. It's very elitist, arrogant and rude and ask you please not to do it.

[Mish]

Again, you are making generalizations without proof. Those references you provided are obscure, at best.

If you are denying that Atheists don't give life positive meaning, please show me a leading Atheist Idea where an Atheist thought says that "life has a positive meaning because ..."

Did you go to the website I gave you? Did you see the list of well-known SHists?

Yes I did. Like I said, they are only a fraction of the Atheist community

Why don't you refer to Freethinkers

Like I said before, I have no problem with that

[IndiReloaded]

If you are feeling things like 'despise', then this argument is over Mish. Sorry doll, but you shouldn't be taking this so personally. More as a learning experience.

As for 'atheism', again you are confused. Go back and read Neo's post again. He already said what atheism is.

But, I'll tell you what Religion does that atheism doesn't. It fills that blank with a lie. For someone who is so pro-honesty, its amazing you tolerate it.

[Mish]

If you are feeling things like 'despise', then this argument is over Mish. Sorry doll, but you shouldn't be taking this so personally. More as a learning experience.

Indi, you can't call someone stupid, ignorant and misguided and then say, 'oh it's nothing personal'. I'm not the only one who has this complaint by the way. I'm not calling you stupid or misguided or ignorant, so please be fair and don't do it.

But, I'll tell you what Religion does that atheism doesn't. It fills that blank with a lie. For someone who is so pro-honesty, its amazing you tolerate it.

So you acknowledge that there is a blank then?

Like I said before I'm not Pro Religion which obviously also has problems and needs to reform, I just don't want to live in a society that doesn't assign a positive value to life and teaches that life has no meaning or purpose and that morals do not exist and that no action is inherently right or wrong.

[IndiReloaded]

Mish, I acknowledge there is a blank in your statement. Again, you don't seem to be tracking the argument very well.

You seem to be deliberately missing the important point.

The numbers of atheists who ascribe to SH (as an example) are irrelevant. When a new, correct scientific theory is discovered it takes time for the community to understand there is a better model out there.

Let's say for a moment I agree with you, that many atheists are nihilistic. Hypothetically only, b/c I happen to disagree. I know many atheists *personally* and none of them are what I would call amoral. Quite the contrary, in fact, they are some of the most principled people I know.

Back to my point: What I have done is told you, there IS a philosophy of positive living that needs not invoke a fictional being or belief.

That is clearly the superior model for how to live one's life. It is positive, moral and full of hope. Most of all, its HONEST b/c it doesn't rely on invoking a fiction for which there is absolutely no proof.

I think that its just a matter of time before more people adopt this philosophy, or something like it. Religion and belief in a personal God is fiction Mish, and its time will pass once people learn there is a better option.

[Mish]

Mish, I acknowledge there is a blank in your statement. Again, you don't seem to be tracking the argument very well.

But, I'll tell you what Religion does that atheism doesn't. It fills that blank with a lie.

That's not the impression you gave with the comment above. You said that there is a blank. That Religion covers something that Atheism doesn't. How does that become a blank in my statement?

The numbers of atheists who ascribe to SH (as an example) are irrelevant.

The numbers are not irrelevant. Because if Nihilists make up 90% of atheist community it makes Atheism very dangerous.

Back to my point: What I have done is told you, there IS a philosophy of positive living that needs not invoke a fictional being or belief.

I think that its just a matter of time before more people adopt this philosophy, or something like it.

And again I tell you that even though that Atheist perspective is more positive than others it still does not address the core problems that I described earlier. There is also no indication that it's the most popular ideology subscribed to by Atheists and that there is no indication that more people will adopt it in the future. I also told you the core issue at the heart of Atheism that it does not give life positive meaning or provides any resources for people to give life positive meaning because any universal factual positive meaning in life falls outside of scientific method and is therefore in opposition to Atheism. I also challenged you to find an Atheist thought that would say "Life has a positive meaning because...." something that you did not provide.

[Junket]

If you want to follow this thread of logic used then you have to follow it all the way.

No you don't.

For example:

All apples are red.

Except when they're not.

See?