Longing to be loved 2

[PRW]

Sorry [MENTION=87416]PRW[/MENTION] for thinking you are spammer.

No problem. I do hit guys kinda hard sometime in my messages, but it is for a purpose. Sometimes responses get exciting. If a guy "goes off" on me, then he may also do that with the woman the first time she "tests" him or does something he doesn't like. So in a way I test to reveal that so it can be dealt with,...and it often proves the point of what I was telling the guy, which got him ticked off in the first place. If you can't handle me when I am only words on a computer screen,...the women are only going to be harder.

Also its pretty safe since you going at girls pace. Guys tend to rush things but girls go slow and steady. Its just you didnt mention physical escalation and didnt explain relationship phase. I been dating for quite a while and when it works it ussualy lasts about 2 months with girls. Thats including a lot of chatting between and before and after 3-4 dates.

That is exactly the point. It needs to go at the woman's pace, not yours. Women fall in love with you when they are NOT with you. It is how their psychology works. They need time to think about you and how to properly deal with and "file" their emotions about you. They cannot do that with the guy cluttering their mind and thoughts with constant chit-chat between the dates. The lack of chit-chatting also helps you have things to talk about on the date because you have not "talked it all out" before the date. The woman wants to "learn" about you on the date,...not be pre-informed before she gets there. The Phase1 is all "you" and intentionally limits you to once a week to keep you tamed down. Phase2 happens when the woman starts to initiate contact and the rate of dating happens as often as she contacts,...so she controls the rate. Maybe that happens on the 3rd date,...6th date,...2nd date,...10th date,...whatever.

It intentionally omits physical escalation because not everyone has the same moral values about that. Some jump in bed on the first date, some only after exclusivity, some want to wait till after marriage. By omitting that it allows all of those people to benefit from the points it tries to make. The document ends where the relationship begins. Dealing with relationships is a whole different subject than the Early Dating Period.

I had a case when girl wanted me to date her exclusively after first date. So thats how its goes here.

The document ends when exclusivity (the relationship) begins. That happens when the woman says she wants it and the guy agrees. The 8 weeks is just a statistical average. It varies from situation to situation. It is up to you to decide if the woman wants it too soon or not, it is up to you to determine her emotional stability and that she isn't a wack job.

[pcmaster]

Just wanted to add that theres one major thing to PRW strategy. - Meeting once a week and no chatting - that way really 2 months might pass and girl still wouldnt know who you are. Cause you cant get to know somebody from meeting only once a week and no cummunication in between. So thats why this might last but also if two dont match then it would be discovered much later than sooner.

So this is a process of getting to know each other slowly. Seems like slow played game without emotional highs.

[PRW]

I will preface this to say that no particular plan is 100% perfect for everybody. Any relationship will generally need to involve some feeling it out a bit between the two for what seems to work for them/their relationship.....

If you read it closely, you will see it has more flexibility in it than most people give it credit for.

However...

Your plan is amazing. I mean, that is awesome! Thank you for that. That really does sound like an amazing plan for somebody like myself who doesn't really know how to date. It's so alien to me. I don't know what is expected, so I freak myself out too much about when should you do this and that, how do you know if the gal is really that into you, how you do you make sure to make it obvious you are into her but don't make it seem like you are TOO into her too fast, etc?

Your plan is great! It lays out the perfect amount of constraint while still showing obvious interest to the gal. It also allows some freedom to let her dictate the pace to some degree so you are able to react to her time frame rather than just trying to force your own and either being too fast or too slow.

Seriously, this is great. Thank you for this.

And thank you very much!

That makes it all worth it for me. The resistance (sometimes vicious) that I get when I post this makes me want to give up, drop out of helping anyone,...and just say, "Screw it, You are all on your own!!"

But I used to be the guy that did everything wrong with dating. So when I read that thing now it is a constant reminder to me as well. I have spent the last 4 years crawling out of that dark hole of rejection and dating despair. I wasted over half my life in that state (I'm 55). I'm still single but enjoy great success dating and practice what I preach. I'm still in the casual dating stage with a handful of women. I maintain healthy friendships even with the ones I have stopped dating and have been to events (that weren't dates) where up to three women there were someone that I either date or were dating and everything works out great. It is a matter of showing them respect, not over pursuing, not rubbing them in each others faces, understanding the meaning of "casual dating" and "not girlfriend/boyfriend" until exclusivity...and also stamping out that demon of insecurity in myself when I feel it creeping up on me.

[pcmaster]

Women fall in love with you when they are NOT with you.

Thats very interesting. Cause that might really be the true since one girl dumped me and after we chatted 2 months later, she wanted me to give her another chance and said "she met the one but let him go" which to my surprise was me. Its funny cause I messaged her like every second day but after she stopped reply, I stopped to write and then after 2 months I was "the one". She said that back then she couldnt decide what is more important to her - friends and party life or someone by her side. And now she decided that she wanted be with me since all these years she was living for herself.

Also I think as harder guy chase the girl as more reppeling it is. Too easy and not a challenge. Girls dont like when guy is giving them too much importance. They want to be part of something bigger - part of journey not the journey itself.

[PRW]

Just wanted to add that theres one major thing to PRW strategy. - Meeting once a week and no chatting - that way really 2 months might pass and girl still wouldnt know who you are. Cause you cant get to know somebody from meeting only once a week and no cummunication in between. So thats why this might last but also if two dont match then it would be discovered much later than sooner.

Not really. It is two contacts per week. One when you make the date, then again on the date itself. The gap between each of them is only a couple of days. The phone is for setting dates, the phone is not for getting to know someone. The date is for getting to know someone, that is what a date is for. Again, you have to read the details, this goes on until the woman starts to reach out to you and initiate contact between the dates. That on average takes about 3 dates (so 3 weeks) if you don't make mistakes in the meantime. Once that happens you have hit the second phase and the dates happen more often based on when she reaches out to you. This way the dates to some extent become her idea. If she is chasing you,...then she isn't dumping you. By 2 months she will probably be asking for exclusivity and the relationship period begins,...now you are beyond the outlined period.

This is important. Women don't fall in love with you by being with you. They fall in love with you when they are thinking about you. That is what the quiet period between the dates is for. It works like this:

1. You set the date several days out and have the quiet period before the date so she can think about you and anticipate the date. The closer the day comes the more the emotions and anticipation build and the happier she is to see you when the date happens, rather than thinking "Oh, it's just him again".

2. During the date, if you handle it right, it will be fun and happy. These fun happy emotions she feels are built up on top of the previous "positive" anticipation she felt and they are given substance.

3. The quiet period after the date allows her to process all of these new emotions, to organize those emotions, and to file them away into the "good" parts in her mind. But if you chit-chat with her between the dates that becomes just a bunch of "noise" that gets in the way of that process. With the chit-chatting, eventually you (maybe her) will say something stupid that will create negative emotions that will delay or pollute the process, and lower the attraction level.

Once you make it to the relationship phase things obviously become more natural and fluid,....BUT YOU HAVE TO GET THERE FIRST.

[pcmaster]

We are now talking here about dating. [MENTION=87417]smackie09[/MENTION] what would be your dating strategy for first 2 months? For example How often to meet, chat and when and how become exclusive?

[smackie09]

It's different for everyone. You have to feed of each others reactions to your actions. At the beginning, "suggesting" meeting up, asking when it's a good time to "chat" to get a feel of how much intensity is needed. If they start to not interact so much, it's time to call it a day, contact them another time...pull back, don't get clingy. It's all about reading their body language, tone of voice, content of the text. When things are really good, and you can't keep yer hands off each other, that would be a good time to talk exclusivity.

[TheEvilJester]

[MENTION=87416]PRW[/MENTION],

I wonder, as well, your thoughts on when the person is somebody you've more so gotten to know online. Could be specifically through an online dating site/app, or even just somebody you chat with online. Frankly, in my experience, online dating has been nothing but a humongous waste of time. However, the few times where I actually chatted with somebody for a bit (and the few that actually progressed to a date) involved a little bit of chatting back and forth before the initial date was even set up. Sort of a back and forth chat that allowed us to feel each other out and determine if a date would even be interesting.

Looking back on that, though, given the context of the plan you outlined, that actually almost seems like it violates this particular plan. Though, isn't that kind of how online dating generally works? So, is it different in the case of online dating? Or if you think the same basic rules apply, how would you suggest utilizing online dating as a tool successfully, yet still going by this plan?

Honestly... like I said, online dating was always a huge waste of my time, so I'm not even sure I would bother trying again. But, it might be interesting to try with this plan in mind.

[pcmaster]

Online dating is gamble. It took me years to become better at it.
Jester why not try my strategy? The one I always suggest. Its pretty exciting, especially when you been alone for a while. It would work for me too in the past if I was ready and willing to go to the end. But I wasnt thats why it was broken for me.
I can say about dating sites and apps that for me it seems like it takes months to find a date. But thats where luck comes into play. I been getting date in half and hour since first chatted with a girl too. I still remember that day. The girl I been chatting and went on a date before didnt wanted to meet. Also my job was on a question mark after long break. I felt so depressed. But there I was on a dating site and concentrating on a girl. Really took half an hour since I first messaged till she agreed to meet. And here Im talking about high quality girl not your neighborhood ho. Still when she messaged me again hour later I canceled date since just couldnt do it, was just too loyal to first girl.
Anyway man its possible to arrange a date in first 5 messages. Remembering when I was in UK girl messaged me and offered to meet in first message since she was within a range of mile.

So if girl is there for dating she will agree to meet with more or less hesitation. But not all the girls are dateable, some are there just for attention and ego boost. Some just for chatting.
You also have to know how to ask girl out. Right way to ask is more important than all the chatting. You should show interest or excitement, in other words go bold. Girls wants to feel like you really like them to feel secure enough about their insecurities to be ready to meet.

But I think its never too early to offer to meet. Cause even if girl is not ready yet you at least show your intention and show that you are serious, not to waste her time.
I remember with first girl I tried to arrange date during first hour of chatting but she didnt support my multiple date ideas. So I made her agree that we will meet in future. Later found out that she was in other town back then working and then traveling. We chatted so damn a lot for 2 weeks what was great. I didnt bring up meeting and after those 2 weeks she was the one who bring up meeting for particular day.
So yeah man you want to know that its not just a chat but will lead to meeting. A lot of damaged goods on dating sites. I seen a girl online week after she got married. So you are right - time waste on those sites are real.

- - - Updated - - -

Just wanted to add that its important to ask for girls FB quite early. On a first day or so. Cause that helps to progress a little cause being on FB you already dont fall in same category as guys on dating site. Also girl my not visit dating site but she will visit her FB. Best girls are not regulars on dating sites.

[PRW]

[MENTION=87416]PRW[/MENTION],

I wonder, as well, your thoughts on when the person is somebody you've more so gotten to know online. Could be specifically through an online dating site/app, or even just somebody you chat with online. Frankly, in my experience, online dating has been nothing but a humongous waste of time. However, the few times where I actually chatted with somebody for a bit (and the few that actually progressed to a date) involved a little bit of chatting back and forth before the initial date was even set up. Sort of a back and forth chat that allowed us to feel each other out and determine if a date would even be interesting.

Looking back on that, though, given the context of the plan you outlined, that actually almost seems like it violates this particular plan. Though, isn't that kind of how online dating generally works? So, is it different in the case of online dating? Or if you think the same basic rules apply, how would you suggest utilizing online dating as a tool successfully, yet still going by this plan?

Honestly... like I said, online dating was always a huge waste of my time, so I'm not even sure I would bother trying again. But, it might be interesting to try with this plan in mind.

We pretty much have the same view there.

1. OLD is usually a big waste of time and effort. But it isn't really Online Dating,...it is Online Introduction. Once you actually meet and get on dates it is not "online" any more.
2. You do have to build a little familiarity using OLD messaging tools before meeting the first time. But it still should NOT be a lot. So do a little "back and forth" then just make the stupid date or give it up. It doesn't really violate anything in that outline because the outline picks it up AS you are making the first date. The OLD pre-chit-chatting happens before that, once one of the two grows-a-pair and actually sets the date, then that is where the outline comes in.

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[MENTION=87416]PRW[/MENTION],Honestly... like I said, online dating was always a huge waste of my time, so I'm not even sure I would bother trying again. But, it might be interesting to try with this plan in mind.

Consider it a scientific experiment, or a social experiment. Nothing to lose really. Give it a shot. What is the worst that could happen? Just end up in the same place you are now anyway?

I guess you could get a new Stalker. When I get one I mark it on the calendar and declare it a personal holiday (It's a joke,...yes I realize it is scarier for the women).

[TheEvilJester]

Consider it a scientific experiment, or a social experiment. Nothing to lose really. Give it a shot. What is the worst that could happen? Just end up in the same place you are now anyway?

That would actually work for me now, but that is more because of my own mindset. Thing was, that was most definitely not the case when I first got back into dating. Given my age, that I'm not a big bar guy or much of a party scene guy either... online dating seemed like my only likely option for meeting somebody. I'd known from my younger days that it was a bit of a frustrating process, but I thought it was at least worth a try. And, at the time trying it just made me feel more miserable and alone. Felt like the only hope I had of finding somebody, and when that is such a bleak and worthless experience it seriously doesn't help.

I'm in a much different mindset these days. I've learned to accept me and be happy with me. I don't NEED love, even if part of me might still want to find it. I don't really know if it honestly is good. I mean, in many ways it is VERY good. I've never been good to myself, and I'm finally now starting to be WAY too late in my life. But it has also made me complacent and left me with no desire to actually put effort into finding somebody. So, in a way it is kind of a shame. Kind of a lost opportunity. How much better it would be to try now when I know I can be happy whether I succeed or not.... but even the thought of it these days I can't help buth think "Meh." That's really the best way to sum it up, I think. LOL!

If love somehow found me, I wouldn't chase it away.... but I just sort of feel done chasing it.

Online dating is gamble. It took me years to become better at it.
Jester why not try my strategy? The one I always suggest. Its pretty exciting, especially when you been alone for a while. It would work for me too in the past if I was ready and willing to go to the end. But I wasnt thats why it was broken for me.
I can say about dating sites and apps that for me it seems like it takes months to find a date. But thats where luck comes into play. I been getting date in half and hour since first chatted with a girl too. I still remember that day. The girl I been chatting and went on a date before didnt wanted to meet. Also my job was on a question mark after long break. I felt so depressed. But there I was on a dating site and concentrating on a girl. Really took half an hour since I first messaged till she agreed to meet. And here Im talking about high quality girl not your neighborhood ho. Still when she messaged me again hour later I canceled date since just couldnt do it, was just too loyal to first girl.
Anyway man its possible to arrange a date in first 5 messages. Remembering when I was in UK girl messaged me and offered to meet in first message since she was within a range of mile.

So if girl is there for dating she will agree to meet with more or less hesitation. But not all the girls are dateable, some are there just for attention and ego boost. Some just for chatting.
You also have to know how to ask girl out. Right way to ask is more important than all the chatting. You should show interest or excitement, in other words go bold. Girls wants to feel like you really like them to feel secure enough about their insecurities to be ready to meet.

But I think its never too early to offer to meet. Cause even if girl is not ready yet you at least show your intention and show that you are serious, not to waste her time.
I remember with first girl I tried to arrange date during first hour of chatting but she didnt support my multiple date ideas. So I made her agree that we will meet in future. Later found out that she was in other town back then working and then traveling. We chatted so damn a lot for 2 weeks what was great. I didnt bring up meeting and after those 2 weeks she was the one who bring up meeting for particular day.
So yeah man you want to know that its not just a chat but will lead to meeting. A lot of damaged goods on dating sites. I seen a girl online week after she got married. So you are right - time waste on those sites are real.

- - - Updated - - -

Just wanted to add that its important to ask for girls FB quite early. On a first day or so. Cause that helps to progress a little cause being on FB you already dont fall in same category as guys on dating site. Also girl my not visit dating site but she will visit her FB. Best girls are not regulars on dating sites.

Yeah, I have to admit that as a younger person in search of love, I think I was making a lot of mistakes with online dating. When I tried it again a few years ago, though, I got more serious about trying to do it right. As in, to utilize it in the best way possible so as to have the best chance at results, but without misrepresenting myself. It just never really made a difference. That's why, even now with my new peace of mind, I just can't motivate myself to waste my time with online dating.

On a side note.... I don't actually use Facebook at all anymore. LOL!

[PRW]

Given my age, that I'm not a big bar guy or much of a party scene guy either... online dating seemed like my only likely option for meeting somebody. I'd known from my younger days that it was a bit of a frustrating process, but I thought it was at least worth a try. And, at the time trying it just made me feel more miserable and alone. Felt like the only hope I had of finding somebody, and when that is such a bleak and worthless experience it seriously doesn't help.

I'm in a much different mindset these days. I've learned to accept me and be happy with me. I don't NEED love, even if part of me might still want to find it. I don't really know if it honestly is good. I mean, in many ways it is VERY good. I've never been good to myself, and I'm finally now starting to be WAY too late in my life. But it has also made me complacent and left me with no desire to actually put effort into finding somebody. So, in a way it is kind of a shame. Kind of a lost opportunity. How much better it would be to try now when I know I can be happy whether I succeed or not.... but even the thought of it these days I can't help buth think "Meh." That's really the best way to sum it up, I think. LOL!

You've been peeking in my windows spying on me, because surely you are describing me to a perfect "T".

BTW - I'm 55. I don't drink alcohol at all. Bars and beer parties don't work for me.

Almost 100% of the people I meet are via Meetup.com now-a-days.
It is not a dating site.

[TheEvilJester]

You've been peeking in my windows spying on me, because surely you are describing me to a perfect "T".

BTW - I'm 55. I don't drink alcohol at all. Bars and beer parties don't work for me.

Almost 100% of the people I meet are via Meetup.com now-a-days.
It is not a dating site.

I am actually familiar with Meetup.com. I've even used it. To be honest, I've not really been terribly fond of that either. So I stopped using that as well. I guess, in fairness, I did start using it during a time that wasn't so great for me, though. So, after a few experiences where I tried to reach out to the leader(s) of certain activities only to be ignored, I lost interest. Again, with my new peace of mind these days maybe I should give it another try. Could be a fun way to meet new people with no other goals in mind than to just have fun.... which could even lead to unexpected romance. ...Problem is I feel similarly about that. A similar sort of "meh" kind of attitude. I have just as little interest in specifically looking for social things to do. I'm more so of the mindset that if I hear about something fun I'll go do it, but I'm not terribly interested in looking for stuff to do.

I think, in all honesty, that aspect of life has just passed me by. Love, that is. Perhaps was never really meant for me. I've just FINALLY been learning to accept that and be happy anyway. Even though part of me will always want love, I am just done letting the lack of it hurt me. I deserve to be happy, and if that has to be without love then so be it.

PRW,

That is awesome that you don't drink. I always love hearing of others like that. Because I always feel like the only one. Nobody necessarily judges you for that (at least not in my experience)... but they do all seem to think it is weird. Like drinking is just part of the human experience. Like it is as natural as breathing. LOL! And, no I swear I have not been spying on you. By the way, I like your new couch. It matches the curtains much better than the old one.

[pcmaster]

So since we started to talk about dating here, and you [MENTION=85121]Hooo![/MENTION] been big on Mystery, what is your dating strategy? Like how often to meet, text, who should pay, when and how to become exclusive?

[pcmaster]

Update:

So went on a weekend vacation for 3 days and 2 nights in a small town. We slept in the same room and basically in same bed. I remember at some point she said that she will never be together with a guy who is not a gentleman. That kinda shocked me cause I'm not really a gentleman, besides moments when feeling like it and have a good mood or like the girl. When she said that, it shocked me but I said: "How you wish."

The first night we slept together I asked her - what would you do if you had only 15 minutes left to live? I was thinking she will mention her mum but hoped she will mention me too. She said she would call her brother and mum. I was thinking that I would spend my last 15 minutes with her like kissing cause I want to die happy and calling mum would be selfish since saying her I love her would just make her cry and miss me only more after death. But of course I didn't say that to a girl and she didn't ask anyway.
Then she asked: What would you do If I died right now? The first thought was that I would kiss her and cry, but I said to call an ambulance, and kiss her one last time and probably cry. Then girl fell asleep quite fast and I was thinking about it. If she died I would try to resurrect her - give her heart massage and breathing mouth to mouth, while at the same time screaming for help so someone could come and call the ambulance while I was busy. But if she would be already cold then I would kiss her and hug her and cry on her while holding her in my arms asking for forgiveness for everything I could do and didn't or did but could do better for her. Until someone would pull me away from her with force.

And something happened that changed everything. Not everything but it was the turning point. We lived in the same room there was a window and she wanted it to stay open but I wanted to close it(because I got cold in middle of week so that had to take break from work and was on antibiotics, but I didn't want to tell her that, besides gentlemen don't complain about their health). So when I was about to close it she hit me in the leg with her hand and said: " Let it be open !" The punch was quite hard so it hurt few seconds but not there was the biggest problem. In her voice, there was so much hate and anger that it really surprised me and hurt me a lot. Those few seconds said so much. I can't imagine doing that to friends I hate or talking like that even to animals. But there it was and all channeled towards me. Can't imagine how can something like that be in the heart if you love someone or like someone. Also, she used a word similar to an idiot. So that also I never did with anyone, except maybe when I was a teenager. And what for she did all that? All I did was just closing the window.

Anyway, after that, I felt abused and hurt so stopped talking to her and touching her. Was just sad at moments. Stopped to sit together with her all the time too and just wasn't around her so much anymore. I was thinking that she dumped a long time ago when she stopped allowing me to kiss her even during sex and eventually things didn't felt good enough even to have sex so that also was not there about a month. Now I just accepted that she dumped me and started to treat her the same way she treated me - cold. Of course, when I start treat girls the same way they treat me its the end. This wasn't an exception. At the end of the vacation, she gave me a lift to the train station and I left saying Thanks. Usually, I would try to kiss her for goodbyes.

Now saw her last time yesterday in church. Wanted and planned to say Hi but was eating soup and choked when she came so didn't say anything. At some point, I looked at her and she was smiling looking at someone and she looked so beautiful that I decided not to look at her anymore to forget her face sooner. Also at some point in the group, she mentioned that she gets angry easily and have to work with that. One girl at the group bring us the chewing gums with text about love within the wrapping. Everyone opened theirs and mine said - "Love is hoping the good times are just around the corner" - I laughed, perhaps because I'm still broken and don't believe in love so much right now. Then when she was about to leave and girls from our group said goodbyes I wanted to say it too but words didn't pass my lips, despite that I still have a respect for a girl and I want to show it. Also, this was the first time when I didn't follow her and let her leave without me. So I stayed and it was cool to keep talking with rest of the girls.

Checked out dating site and something happened to those girls - they don't seem attractive anymore, just couldn't press like despite that before I was doing it automatically on almost all the girls. Just about 3% seemed interesting and I didn't even want to meet with a girl I was chatting with except if the date was the same day. Just don't want to try anymore, interested in dating is gone now and will just concentrate on my own things until girls will start to look interesting again.