The God Illusion?

[Mish]

Dawkins is not a nihilist. He believes in love, for example. As do most atheists. The reason we don't require scientific proof is because we understand its a conceptual, HUMAN ideal.

Love is not the only conceptual human ideal which shouldn't require scientific proof though there are many others and for different people these ideals will differ. I could even say that God as a model of absolute good is a conceptual ideal which is needed. What scares me is the world where none of these ideals matter simply because they lack scientific basis. Scientific method knows very little and it should not have a monopoly on the "truth" in the same way Religion shouldn't.

[khyyy]

A neo-nazi?

Do you know anything about white supremacists?

lol... yes, as a matter a fact, I happen to know someone who was involved in a neo-nazi organization. He has since seized said involvement however, he is to the truest definition a nihilist.

[IndiReloaded]

Scientific method knows very little and it should not have a monopoly on the "truth" in the same way Religion shouldn't.

It doesn't. You know very little about science, Mish. The scientific method is not the only way of learning about something, even in science. Your bias (and ignorance, sorry, but in this area you are) is telling. Look up the difference between an experimentalist, a theorist, and a naturalist. For starters.

[Mish]

Your bias (and ignorance, sorry, but in this area you are) is telling.

Indi, perhaps before accusing others of bias and ignorance you might want to have a long hard look in the mirror, if you think you are unbiased then you will be surprised by what you will see.

No I'm not going to engage in this conversation with you any further. You are not going to change my mind with the tactics you are using so let's just leave it without any further accusations.

[IndiReloaded]

You aren't a scientist, Mish. You ARE ignorant in this area. Sorry if that bothers you but its the truth. You just don't like my pointing it out. Shrug.

[ecojeanne]

^^i beg to differ, mish isn't brainwashed into thinking what science has called truth IS truth, relying in other people's work as proof, when considering the amt of shite that is out there being 'educated'. it's down to the individual to distinguish right from wrong for themselves. it's foolish to rely on other people's so called conclusions, it has been proven that many conclusions that were once thought truth turned out to have been manipulated. to rely on science to tell you the truth is very foolish indeed unless you've actually personally done the experiments yourself.

just my thoughts

[Only-virgins]

it's down to the individual to distinguish right from wrong for themselves.

Are you taking the god side? because do you realize what you are telling us here? becoming a self reliant thinker and not taking other people's words as evidence? There is no way you can come to the conclusion that god exits and do any experiments "yourself". Being this is about god you fail miserably here and stick a nail in your own foot. Scientists unlike religion actually record the data and the work they do, many recreate the experiment all the time and in many cases it is used to benefit medicine and technology...seeing as it ACTUALLY WORKS when science comes to a conclusion it sure beats believing a butch of idiots in black robes who know nothing and have done no work to provide evidence for their false beliefs. I mean you could take your child to a hospital but than again they use science there....you might want to take him somewhere else...like a church? they sure know what they are doing. You people clearly know nothing about how research is done and what scientists have to go through to make sure their work goes on, Some of the hardest judges of truth in science is other scientists...not like religion where everyone is a stupid yes man when it comes to god.

[ecojeanne]

Are you taking the god side? because do you realize what you are telling us here? becoming a self reliant thinker and not taking other people's words as evidence? Man...sure doesn't sound like religion to me

no i was talking about correct and incorrect information. duh

[Only-virgins]

no i was talking about correct and incorrect information. duh

Right, and what provides evidence insuring that the existence of god is the correct information?

[ecojeanne]

Scientists unlike religion actually record the data and the work they do, many recreate the expermient all the time and in many cases it is used to benefit medicine and technology...seeing as it ACUTALLY WORKS when science comes to a conlusion it sure beats believing a butch of idiots in black robes who know nothing and have done no work to provide evidence for their false beliefs.

yes but what i find silly about you guys relying so much on science is that you never think about the actual scientists and their sponsors and the fact that they have the motivation for their own ego to 'find' this info and then produce it as truth. science itself is great, it's the people within science i have a problem believing. and like i said one would be a fool to trust findings made by anyone else but themselves.

but you do your thang, makes no difference to me. when people believe in God it helps them, keeps them on the straight and narrow (due to mans inability to be good all the time) and in the end gives them peace of mind when they are on their way out. there aint nothin wrong with it.

atheism; humanity imo is not ready. they are too violent and manipulative and reliant on leaders and other people (who have the same problems as them within them). just like religion, science can be manipulated. i would advise don't be so confident in it.

[Junket]

lol... yes, as a matter a fact, I happen to know someone who was involved in a neo-nazi organization. He has since seized said involvement however, he is to the truest definition a nihilist.

Exactly, because white supremacists are extremely religious. It's a major justification of why the think they can do what they do.

[IndiReloaded]

^^i beg to differ, mish isn't brainwashed into thinking what science has called truth IS truth,

Eco, you can't read. Or rather, you read what you want to.

In my post, I told Mish he is ignorant of science. He is. It is because he made a blatantly wrong statement:

Scientific method knows very little and it should not have a monopoly on the "truth"

To which I responded:

It doesn't. You know very little about science, Mish. The scientific method is not the only way of learning about something, even in science.

So you see, I never said scientific method is the only truth.

His comment was made in ignorance (or uneducated/untrained, if you prefer--they are synonyms) b/c, I know, he's not trained as a scientist. So he doesn't know there are other ways scientists acquire data.

Learn to read. Its a useful life skill.

[ecojeanne]

ah my apologies indi, glad we agree with my opinion i was conveying about science tho

my opinion is also tho both you and mish are now arguing about semantics while you preserve your ego by saying he is ignorant. science should never be considered the whole truth and you actually agree with that, so there is no point calling mish ignorant but only to satisfy your need to feel better, no offense but mish doesn't have to do that to be acknowledged

[IndiReloaded]

yes but what i find silly about you guys relying so much on science is that you never think about the actual scientists and their sponsors and the fact that they have the motivation for their own ego to 'find' this info and then produce it as truth.

What are you on about, Eco? I am one; I live with one, most of extended family are scientists/engineers, I work with them, I trained in the same dept as Nobel Laureates.

Instead of making these sweeping statements that you obviously have no clue about, why don't you actually take the opportunity to learn from someone who actually does know what they are about?

In this regard, Mish is miles ahead of you: at least he wants to learn. Sometimes, you just seem to want to spout drivel. It bothers me Eco, that someone like yourself wouldn't avail herself of this opportunity. Really, you should be keener to learn.

[ecojeanne]

^^lol indi you are funny, it's such a pity you dismiss so easily, but i guess that comes down to your training. carry on