Apologists for Evil

[little pingoin]

There are a lot of strong women out there i definitely agree with that Gribble. Rules though, are still important to keep our ladies safe!

When taken in context with the burqa argument, I find this statement horribly offensive.

I understand that your point of view is that the imposition of this article of clothing is a measure meant to keep Islam's females safe; yet, it is true that the onus is on the raped female to prove she did not entice her attacker (the concept of the burqa being the reduction of the opportunity for a male to be driven to desire by the sight of flesh). I recall reading an article years ago of a young woman that was punished for her part in her rape simply because she was present in a vehicle with a male of no relation to her. (In Googling the specifics of the article, I've found several similar cases but too many to look through to find the exact one I read... it is too much to read all of those stories)

The burqa, in and of itself, is a harmless object. Cloth. It is the symbolism, the meaning behind the object, that is dangerous. It says that a Muslim male is not responsible for his actions when it comes to the degradation and humiliation of his own female countrymen. Even worse, it implies that she is to blame for the evil inflicted upon her.

In all of the unfortunate stories I've read tonight, the women were wearing the damn burqas but were raped anyway. The women were punished for their rapes. How did the rules keep them safe? If anything, I imagine this disregard for Muslim women only encourages the men to keep on raping. Why? Because how many women are going to report a rape when they know they're likely to end up ridiculed, jailed, lashed and ostracized for something they already feel pretty miserable about in the first place?

[IndiReloaded]

The burqa, in and of itself, is a harmless object. Cloth. It is the symbolism, the meaning behind the object, that is dangerous. It says that a Muslim male is not responsible for his actions when it comes to the degradation and humiliation of his own female countrymen. Even worse, it implies that she is to blame for the evil inflicted upon her.

Precisely. Well said, Ping.

[ecojeanne]

You know Eco, you accuse me of being arrogant, but you actually describe yourself.

Arrogance implies an exaggerated sense of one's ability. In my case, I know what I know & I can back up my statements with actual quals and achievement. Not everyone can do what I do, its true. That isn't arrogance, simply fact. You on the other hand seem to think you are actually in a place to judge anyone, but have no experience, education or ability to do so. But, deep down, I know you already know this. Perhaps one day you will grow up enough to actually do something about it.

You could do far worse than to try to emulate someone like me. Tho, as I said before, we all have to work within our limits. Yours are considerable, so I suppose you help where you can. Its better than nothing, I agree. Someone has to answer the phones and make the calls requesting donations.

this actually made me laugh, are you trying to be a comedian?! ok ok ok you *are* the best of the best, i know you crave that, so there ya go..

how do you feel now? feel good hon?

when did i mention arrogance here? maybe you feel a little like maybe i should be judging you?

you are *just* THE most amazing person ever

feelin great?

i *wish* i was you

i reckon you realise what i'm trying to point out to you, if you don't, then i pity you. carry on me dear

btw i wasn't criticizing you, i was actually saying previously i think it's great that someone that comes across like a machine actually cares, you seem to have taken offense to something deep within you.

[Yggdrasil]

How about you, Mish? Or you Eco? All your ideals, but what actions have you actually TAKEN to improve society?

I know the question wasn't exactly directed at me, and there are only few people who know this. I don't exactly advertise it.

I volunteer 10 hours (2 hours every weekday) at an institution for men (sorry ladies, you're not allowed in there, this is an exclusive male club) who suffer from childhood and spousal abuse.

Male childhood and spousal abuse is still one of the many taboos in our society. Thank goodness the taboo is slowly being lifted.

[IndiReloaded]

You are very sad, Eco. How you justify the 500+ L of O2 you consume each day, I'm sure I don't know.

btw i wasn't criticizing you, i was actually saying previously i think it's great that someone that comes across like a machine actually cares, you seem to have taken offense to something deep within you.

This statement might actually be meaningful IF it wasn't prefaced with all the crap you spew.

But, I have faith you will grow up. Some day.

[ecojeanne]

^^you're so fab! you are a great example to what people should try to be like.

feel good coz YOU DESERVE TO!



maybe you do so why take offense? that IS THE question ain't it.....

[Yggdrasil]

Because I'm sick of these silly comparisons, yes and you should. Because everyone knows what a Klan robe and a swastika stand for. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that they are symbols of execution and racial hatred.

Mish, I really don't want to argue with you, I however strongly suggest not to use stereotypes in argumentation.

1: Not everybody who wears outfits that look like the ones the KKK wears, are KKK members. The image bellow are Spanish church members, doing penitence:




2. The swastika is NOT a symbol for Nazi Germany, it's a 3000 year old budhist symbol for good luck and health, hence the name svastika in sanskrit. The picture bellow shows a building of the Red Swastika Society, not a Nazi building:



The Red Swastika Society started of as a something similar to the Red Cross in 1930 and continues today as a religious organization focused on charity.

So, no Mish, the sentence: there is no doubt in anyone's mind that they are symbols of execution and racial hatred, just doesn't fly here.

What I am trying to say is: please don't use stereotypes when debating things like these.

[IndiReloaded]

I'm not offended Eco. You are missing my point.

[IndiReloaded]

Actually, Ygg, those comments were mine...

And yep, I would *still* call the cops if I saw someone like that walking around in my community.

But then, I'm not in Spain nor live near a buddhist temple.

[Yggdrasil]

Actually, Ygg, those comments were mine...

And yep, I would *still* call the cops if I saw someone like that walking around in my community.

But then, I'm not in Spain nor live near a buddhist temple.

Then I have to give you the same slap on the wrist Indi.

And not living in Spain or not living near a buddhist temple still doesn't justify the stereotype in my opinion.

Apologies to Mish.

[IndiReloaded]

No offense Ygg, but your point that those guys in white are doing church penance doesn't make me think any better of them. I already knew about the buddhist symbol, but not many people (esp in US) associate it with buddhism.

[Yggdrasil]

No offense Ygg, but your point that those guys in white are doing church penance doesn't make me think any better of them. I already knew about the buddhist symbol, but not many people (esp in US) associate it with buddhism.

I understand Indi. However, the link between the robes and the KKK is... sadly enough, in your mind, not in mine. No offense intended.

Taboos are hard to break.

[IndiReloaded]

Then I have to give you the same slap on the wrist Indi.

Are you seriously trying to argue that someone in my conservative Vancouver suburb dressed like that (with a swastika--I did mention both) would like be anything other than a nutcase?

Sorry, but 'reasonable doubt' would seem to apply. It would be my responsibility to contact authority. Just like it was reasonable that police officer check out the guy 'breaking in' to that Harvard profs house.

[ecojeanne]

I'm not offended Eco. You are missing my point.

good for you, coz you kinda made me think you had a problem with telling me i was 'judging you' when i said it was great about you *giving away* ('judging you' was not the case...it imagined by you) and then you saying i assume you were being arrogant (i certainly didn't mention that it was only mentioned by you here) so you can surely see why it would be logical for one to think there is somethin more going on in your head.....i didn't mention any of these lesser qualities dreamed up

it's all good if you can get past the whole 'emulating' etc. it's not really that obvious, in fact, you do sound like a lot of people that talk the talk but don't walk the walk. why don't you share. i would enjoy hearing how human you actually are.

[Yggdrasil]

Are you seriously trying to argue that someone in my conservative Vancouver suburb dressed like that (with a swastika--I did mention both) would like be anything other than a nutcase?

Sorry, but 'reasonable doubt' would seem to apply. It would be my responsibility to contact authority. Just like it was reasonable that police officer check out the guy 'breaking in' to that Harvard profs house.

I am not trying to argue that. Don't put words in my mouth and don't imply something I didn't type.

What I am saying is: not everything is what it appears to be. That should be very obvious from my posts.

I'm not the one who is using stereotypes here.

What I am trying to say is: please don't use stereotypes when debating things like these.