Second thoughts can generally be amended with judicious action; injudicious actions can seldom be recovered with second thoughts.
--Cyteen by C.J.Cherryh
*shakes head*
Indi, you're a smart person, you know exactly what I am saying.
Don't play this 'I have no clue what you are talking about' game with me.
Sometimes, ones stuborness, admirable as it is, prevents one from being more open. The world isn't static. Neither should a person be.
I'll make my point one last time:
DO NO USE STEREOTYPES IN THESE KIND OF DISCUSSIONS.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
then why are you telling me i'm judging you....you in fact decided that. i never mentioned any such thing until you started on about how i should emulate to be like you. fairly presumptuous about how important is what you do. there are plenty of wealthy people that 'do things' that do jack shit, it's all for ego, and you seem fairly attached to yours, jus' sayin'
i'm glad you are at least doing something whatever it is and hopefully it actually does do jack shit unlike many out there that get credit for something that does fck all.
Last edited by ecojeanne; 01-08-09 at 01:52 PM.
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching
Maybe I missed a post or two (there have been a lot of them), but I don't think there was any stereotyping here.
The point was drawn that the white hoods and swastikas are largely known to stand for discrimination, hatred and violence. They're objects, like the burqa, that some group of schmucks made stand for something awful.
The fact that the swastika originated as a peaceful symbol doesn't offer much in the way of condolences to Jewish families affected by the Holocaust.
You know, Ygg, I have a very hard time taking seriously anyone who needs to 'yell' to make their point.
Eco, I could search for posts where you called me arrogant, 'machine' and other things. Where YOU were the instigator, I should point out. They are there, look for them. I don't care, except to point out your error saying you haven't.
As opposed to not wealthy people who don't do 'jack shit'? LOL, Eco, you are a piece of work.fairly presumptuous about how important is what you do. there are plenty of wealthy people that 'do things' that do jack shit, it's all for ego, and you seem fairly attached to yours, jus' sayin'
Sorry, where did I state an importance value to what I said? Except to point out that I happen to act consistently w/my comments. Something you seem to have difficulty with.
Anyway, my point is made. You aren't so dense you don't see it. Think I'll sign off for the pm.
Second thoughts can generally be amended with judicious action; injudicious actions can seldom be recovered with second thoughts.
--Cyteen by C.J.Cherryh
LOL the point is i didn't call you arrogant here, you assumed. maybe due to some insecurity, not sure why really, it didn't make any sense since i wasn't judging you, i was impressed until all the BS that followed...ego prevails as does no sense to any of your points....as per usual
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching
Wow Eco, reading your posts is what I'd imagine conversing with a parrot would be like. Do you even know how to analyze the source of the things you produce? I hear an... echo, Eco. I guess its a good thing, my points do seem to be going in, tho the route is a bit circuitous.
LOL.
Second thoughts can generally be amended with judicious action; injudicious actions can seldom be recovered with second thoughts.
--Cyteen by C.J.Cherryh
^^^ DANCE PUPPET DANCE! lol
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching
Emphasizing =/= yelling.
It's obvious after stating 2 times the exact same thing, that I have to emphasize or make what I type it stand out in such way that it's no longer open to misinterpretation to even the most dense of people.
If that appears as yelling to you (and yes I know CAPS are considered yelling on the net) then, again, that's your perception of it.
Perception =/= intent.
Oh btw, Eco knows exactly which strings to pull to get you going
Cheers, don't let the bedbugs bite you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Don't cry, don't regret and don't blame
Weak find the whip, willing find freedom
Towards the sun, carry your name
In warm hands you are given
Ask the wind for the way
Uncertainty's gone, your path will unravel
Accept all as it is and do not blame
God or the Devil
~Born to Live - Mavrik~
I think these are the real issues that need to be brought to light. The cloth as you said is harmless and has many meanings, it is the teachings which encourage that kind of behaviour (random abuse of women) that are the problem. I doubt many Muslims are proud of issues like this and would themselves want to find a way to solve problems like this. I believe that if we concentrate our attention on important issues like teachings on vile perception of women without stereotyping or attacking or alienating sections of community together (us and them) we can find solutions to these problems.
Don't cry, don't regret and don't blame
Weak find the whip, willing find freedom
Towards the sun, carry your name
In warm hands you are given
Ask the wind for the way
Uncertainty's gone, your path will unravel
Accept all as it is and do not blame
God or the Devil
~Born to Live - Mavrik~
Exactly. If the burqa were to cease to exist at 14:00 (pick any time zone) the problem would still remain. The problem is not the symbols used. The problem is the thinking behind the symbols.
But I'm fairly certain Gribble and a few others made that point very early on in the thread, if not exactly in those words.
How many of you here know what happens to a Western woman who goes w/o garb in a muslim country? Say, Saudi Arabia? Do you think they tolerate her 'right' to express her culture?
Just saying.
Second thoughts can generally be amended with judicious action; injudicious actions can seldom be recovered with second thoughts.
--Cyteen by C.J.Cherryh
LOL, we talked about this by PM Ygg. Eco only thinks she can outsmart a pysch major. I learned those things about 'mirroring and smiling to make them more upset' when she was still in diapers. Notice she chases ME around the site, not the other way around. Mimickry is the highest form of flattery, they say. Even tho not directed at her, she WILL reply to this post. She can't help it. Shrug.
Anyway, yes, large caps & bold IS considered yelling by internet/email standards. There are any number of articles about this, I'm sure you are aware.
My point is still that all such things should be taken in context. Symbols are contextual, which includes uniform garb to make the wearer feel a sense of identity with their group or cause. You surely must agree with that?
sym⋅bol
–noun
1. something used for or regarded as representing something else; a material object representing something, often something immaterial; emblem, token, or sign.
Or, would you like to argue that the Christian cross really *doesn't* represent Christianity?
It IS possible to take tolerance to a ridiculous extreme, Ygg, such as to make it useless to try to come to any reasonable conclusion about anything.
I stand by my example: if I saw a person in KKK garb w/a swastika on his arm, I would be responsible to call the police to check it out. Do you claim otherwise? Should I simply 'be tolerant' on the extremely remote chance he might be attending an "All Buddhist Harry Potter" gathering where he might be attending as Dumbledore?
That is just ridiculous, Ygg. You know it.
Likewise, someone wearing muslim garb does represent (or is forced to represent) the women-oppressive aspects of that religion.
So, either I'm not understanding your point, or I'm wrong. Either way, you'll have to do a better job explaining why my approach is generally unreasonable if you want to change my mind, Ygg. Exceptions don't count: one can always find exceptions. Symbols, by definition, deal in generalities.
Second thoughts can generally be amended with judicious action; injudicious actions can seldom be recovered with second thoughts.
--Cyteen by C.J.Cherryh