Dating a Feminist Nymph

[Charlie Boy II]

yeah that was actually pretty funny. That buildings into the ground thing made me laugh. F-cking feminists.

[misombra]

i read part of the first post.

lol.

cliff's notes please!!!

[boobaa]

21???? Oh my god. And she calls herself an artist with all that crap in her head...

[misombra]

okay i just read the rest.

gskorp, you're such a jerk toward girls. you knew she was crazy from the beginning and you went on to try and tame her and when you couldn't you had a cow and went off on her.

if you don't like them, then leave crazy little girls alone.

[Charlie Boy II]

All's fair in love and war misombra

[Mish]

Flags:

- Do you think i'm pretty?
- Do you think I need to lose some weight?
- Wouldn't you like me if I was thinner? (good luck answering that one)
- Can I lose 5 pounds?
- I want to get implants.., I don't like the shape..
- Don't you feel lucky to have such a sexy girlfriend?
- Everybody is looking at me.., they want to sex me..

- Do you think i'm pretty?

A: No, I only like to go out with ugly girls

- Do you think I need to lose some weight? / Wouldn't you like me if I was thinner? (good luck answering that one) - Can I lose 5 pounds?

A: No, I like girls with a bit of flubber

- I want to get implants.., I don't like the shape..

A: Well, I do and if I ever find you changing that shape I like, I'm breaking up with you

- Don't you feel lucky to have such a sexy girlfriend?

A: Ofcourse, you almost compliment me

- Everybody is looking at me.., they want to sex me..

A: Ofcourse they do, look who you have next to you

[GrkScorp]

I have a question: why is "Do you think I am pretty?" a red flag? All the other ones are pretty obvious but that one is a little vague to me.

I can't believe you put yourself in this situation, but at least you got an experience out of it.

Do you think I'm pretty?

It's a lose-lose question.., not for me.., but for her.., and not because of my answer.., but because of what motivates her to ask such a question..

1. She either doesn't think she is attractive

or

2. She doesn't believe I find her attractive

Now.., she's definitely not the first artist I've ever dated.. I've dated artists in the past.., and one feature they have is that they are constantly being "critiqued"..

They have to train and practice.., to an almost impossible degree of perfection.., and as they develop as artists.., they are constantly being ripped apart.., being told that all this effort they have put into their work (which is very personal) was "not good enough"..

On top of that.., they have to critique the work of others.., and so it's not long until they get a feel for how life is.. "Points of view".., they realize they're not the only one that has one.. It smacks them in the face.., they become so aware of how "less than perfect" they are.., but yet their goal is to be the best at what they do.., so they inevitably become very self-critical..

"Err.., so why do you like artists?"

Because "normally".., they give up on trying to maintain an "act".. They don't try and project themselves in a "politically correct" way.. They're open and honest.., not afraid to say what's on their mind.., and are genuine and natural..

In her case.., she was all those things.., but being an artist took its toll on her self-esteem.. That of course caused the level of insecurity that produced such a statement..

1. She either lacked confidence in herself.., not aware of how beautiful (cough cough.., fcukn' HOT) she was.., too much of a perfectionist to accept how attractive she was.., and too self-critical.., which made her focus and see only her physical flaws (which were none if any.., and if any.., very minor)..

or

2. She lacked confidence in herself.., which caused her to doubt her actual value to an other person.., so that when it came time to evaluate or gauge my interest.., she was being too conservative and uncertain.., which meant she never trusted me.., never believed anyone (including me) could ever appreciate her or love her.., and was left constantly insecure..

So the statement.. "do you think I'm pretty" is a HUGE red flag..

[GrkScorp]

Can you really blame her for being that way? If you were in a relationship because you were bored, that's a bad reason to be in a relationship. No wonder she was acting crazy. It wasn't her fault, it was your fault.

I wasn't in a relationship because I was bored..

Though I will admit.., her physical appearance caused me to overlook the earliest and biggest warning sign.., "her art"

Here's what it felt like for me:

1. WOW! She's hot!
2. WOW! She's an artist!
3. Interesting.., she's a good conversationalist..
4. She's obviously very passionate about this subject.., I can see her human qualities.., very appealing..
5. She's not being fake or pretentious.., she's not afraid to curse or avoid using needlessly superfluous or flowery language.., intellectually secure.., honest.., genuine.., willing to speak her mind.., very attractive personality traits.., she earned girlfriend points..
6. WOW.., what an interesting and new perspective on this issue.., her art is fascinating.., very mentally stimulating..

I realize now.., that the 6th step was probably clouded by the other 5 that lead up to it.. If I met her while she was talking about her art for instance.., maybe we would have never ended up dating..

[GrkScorp]

Do you always find girls like this? or it this a rare case?

Define.., "like this"..

Artists? --> Most of the time.., yes..

Insecure? --> Who isn't insecure? But THIS insecure? No.. a bit on the rare side..

Crazy? --> That's like asking me if I always find female girls.. (I'm just kidding girls).., no.. This was a very rare instance.. Most women are NOT like this.. But this is why you have to.. "hope for the best.., but be prepared for the worst"

[anachronistic]

Do you think I'm pretty?

It's a lose-lose question.., not for me.., but for her.., and not because of my answer.., but because of what motivates her to ask such a question..

1. She either doesn't think she is attractive

or

2. She doesn't believe I find her attractive

Now.., she's definitely not the first artist I've ever dated.. I've dated artists in the past.., and one feature they have is that they are constantly being "critiqued"..

They have to train and practice.., to an almost impossible degree of perfection.., and as they develop as artists.., they are constantly being ripped apart.., being told that all this effort they have put into their work (which is very personal) was "not good enough"..

On top of that.., they have to critique the work of others.., and so it's not long until they get a feel for how life is.. "Points of view".., they realize they're not the only one that has one.. It smacks them in the face.., they become so aware of how "less than perfect" they are.., but yet their goal is to be the best at what they do.., so they inevitably become very self-critical..

"Err.., so why do you like artists?"

Because "normally".., they give up on trying to maintain an "act".. They don't try and project themselves in a "politically correct" way.. They're open and honest.., not afraid to say what's on their mind.., and are genuine and natural..

In her case.., she was all those things.., but being an artist took its toll on her self-esteem.. That of course caused the level of insecurity that produced such a statement..

1. She either lacked confidence in herself.., not aware of how beautiful (cough cough.., fcukn' HOT) she was.., too much of a perfectionist to accept how attractive she was.., and too self-critical.., which made her focus and see only her physical flaws (which were none if any.., and if any.., very minor)..

or

2. She lacked confidence in herself.., which caused her to doubt her actual value to an other person.., so that when it came time to evaluate or gauge my interest.., she was being too conservative and uncertain.., which meant she never trusted me.., never believed anyone (including me) could ever appreciate her or love her.., and was left constantly insecure..

So the statement.. "do you think I'm pretty" is a HUGE red flag..

What if she was just curious or wanted assurance?

I don't think it is much of a red flag, especially compared to the other ones. After all, if she was as perceptive as an artist could be, she would also realize that preference varies from person to person, hoping that you were satisfied? I think you may have analyzed a few situations a little incorrectly, if not overanalyzed a few moments alongside.

Well regardless, you don't really belong with this one anyway; too many personal problems, and you, none. But still, I think you need to work on interpreting the meaning behind her actions. I'll pick apart a few more things later.

[GrkScorp]

its disgusting this kind of behavior some people think is ok to do to their partner to 'trap' them...

Hmm.., I don't know who you are.., but I like you already.. (totally unrelated to the actual substance of that statement.., just the way you presented it)

But yes.., back to the substance..

"Only the desperate or naive allow themselves to be manipulated"

Honestly.., some people are interested in different things.., shopping.., sports.., power.., sex.., children.., cats..

I'm a simple guy.., I'm interested in human behavior.., family.., money.., and personal development..

Now.., to even make an effort to try and either flatter me or insult me.., push or pull me.., influence or persuade me by my emotions is a waste of time.. One.., I'm a guy.., secondly.., I've been trained for 3 years on how to disconnect myself from emotional reasoning.., bias.., and fallacy.. If you're not going to make the case in a way that makes sense "logically".., then you'll have to excuse me if I don't take you seriously and seem unaffected at best..

Nevertheless.., I'm not one to backlash and say something like.., "you manipulative b*tch.., I know exactly what you're doing.., I'm not going to tolerate it.., I'm breaking up with you.., NOW!".., that would be insensitive.., I understand that women have a different way of communicating.., when they want something.., it's not a question of what makes sense.., it's a question of "what makes sense for THEM".., I'm not going to hold it against anyone if they try and make me feel bad or good.., just to get their way..

Also.., it's beneath me to take any argument or issue.., and argue it using an emotional appeal.. (even if my intended target is vulnerable to an emotional appeal!).. Bias and fallacy are the tools of politicians.., part of my educational philosophy has been.., "if you don't have any faith in your argument.., or if your argument in invalid.., then.., desperate to make your case.., you'll result to bias and fallacy.., you will try and appeal to emotions.., not reason.., to try and prove your point.., when all you are really doing is admitting to everyone that you know your position to be wrong"

I also consider it insulting to myself.., to dare be tempted to use any emotional appeal on the person I'm in a relationship with.. That simply amounts to nothing more than me trying to persuade or pressure them into doing something "I" want.. That's not what a relationship is about.. And if I have that kind of respect for the other person.., then I expect nothing less in return..

But there has to come a point.., where she eventually picks up on the fact that.., "hey.., you know.., this guy doesn't tolerate bullsh*t.., but he's not abusive about it.., he's trying to communicate to me that he wants me to cut it out.., he keeps giving me second chances.., but there's only so much one is willing to wait.. he's not interested the least bit in engaging in a power-struggle or trying to control me.., so there's no point in being guarded or trying to feel powerful or in control.., this isn't a relationship that's about that.., this is an equal & fair relationship where both people are treated with respect.., I should probably start to get over my insecurities from past relationships and work on feeling safe enough to stop this kind of behavior and thinking"..

That never happened.., despite me willing to tolerate some instances of it in the hopes that she would eventually change.., she didn't.., I wasn't willing to put up with it in the long-run.., Once I realized that "this is who she is.., this is a fundamental aspect of her character".., the relationship was over..

What further pissed me off.., was the whole notion of trying to "trap" me.. I mean.., seriously.., wtf???

How more sexist can you be? What? Just because I'm a guy.., does she think that I never want to get married and start a family? That's like saying girls don't want to have sex.. If you try and pressure someone into doing ANYTHING (even something they want to do) they won't do it.., for no other reason than simply because they don't want to be "pressured" into doing it..

By her making an effort to try and pressure me or "trap" me as you put it.., it was like she took all my feelings and respect for her.., and pissed and sh*t all over them..

Yes.., "disgusting"

[GrkScorp]

What if she was just curious or wanted assurance?

I wish I had a picture to send you.., but the only thing I had were videos of her.. (which I deleted as soon as we broke up.., right in front of her.., to at least assure her that they wouldn't be all over the internet)

If you want a good idea of what she looked like.., google "Alektra Blue" and try and imagine her about 6" shorter.., and with shorter hair.. and possibly a smaller cup size.., I don't know what Alektra is.., but she was just a 34D

Just to imagine.., my father was telling me.., "I've never told you anything bad about any of your girlfriends.., so when I tell you this.., I can only hope you listen.., but this woman can only bring you down.., this is NYC.., if you just want to have your fun.., there are so many other women to have your fun with.., but her.., you need to break up with her.., the sooner.., the better..".. And after we broke up.., he would always tell me or his friends as a joke.., "hey.., what's that girl's number?"

Ben wanted to fcuk her.., Tony.., Kosta.., George.., my father even told me as a joke that I should've asked if he could join in on her threesome fantasies.., and I'm sure most other guys that laid eyes on her didn't have thoughts that were too different.. And hey.., why not? She was a very attractive girl.., but don't you think there's something wrong there when the world around her wants to fcuk her.., but she still wonders if she's pretty or not?

I explained myself to her the best I could.., and I can't say I didn't try to work on my libido and sexual desire.., I was on AndroGel.., Cialis.., Yohimbe.., Ginseng.., St. John's Wort.., Elexia.., Horny Goat Weed.., etc.. I tried.., I made an honest effort.., it's not my fault nothing happened.. That's beyond my control.. and more importantly.., it's beyond HER control! It has nothing to do with her.. Just because I don't want to jump her bones doesn't mean that she's not attractive or sexy.., every other guy out there gladly would.., I just have low libido.. that's a concept she couldn't wrap her head around without taking it personally and feeling like she was unattractive..

[GrkScorp]

I don't think it is much of a red flag, especially compared to the other ones. After all, if she was as perceptive as an artist could be, she would also realize that preference varies from person to person, hoping that you were satisfied? I think you may have analyzed a few situations a little incorrectly, if not overanalyzed a few moments alongside.

Well regardless, you don't really belong with this one anyway; too many personal problems, and you, none. But still, I think you need to work on interpreting the meaning behind her actions. I'll pick apart a few more things later.

That's definitely possible.. I don't doubt that at all..

I'm very interested in hearing any other perspectives on it LW..

[GrkScorp]

okay i just read the rest.

Took you long enough.. ; P

gskorp, you're such a jerk toward girls.

Who? Me? I'm an equal opportunity employer.., I don't discriminate.., I'm like this with everyone..

you knew she was crazy from the beginning and you went on to try and tame her and when you couldn't you had a cow and went off on her.

I am of concurring and dissenting opinion..

I concur.., I should have realized that she was crazy from the very beginning.., that was poor judge of character on my part.., and HUGE shame on me for that one..

I dissent.., my focus was on her other "redeeming qualities" and that lead me to overlook the fact that she was psychotically crazy and a mental case.. So I didn't go into the relationship thinking that I would tame her.., I went in thinking I found someone great.. When her flaws started to come to light.., I liked her.., so I gave her the benefit of the doubt and some time for understanding and working it out.., when she didn't want to work them out.., no.., there was obviously no way I was about to tolerate it.., so I ended things at the 2 month mark rather than carry things on for years just to have someone to stick my d*ck into once in a blue moon when I would be in the mood..

if you don't like them, then leave crazy little girls alone.

Lesson learned.., "there's no cure for crazy"

[ecojeanne]

i have to say grk...i adore the way you write...it pulls and provokes my emotions, you are very interesting. keep posting