No Birthday Sex/Not Enough Sex

[SelflessnHumble]

I didn't plop a price tag on it, she did. Many women do.
You don't make sure she gets off too? So she stops putting out, hey, she just put a price on it. Whether it's pleasure, money, intimacy, foreplay, flowers, love notes, what ever it is, if you don't pay it, you're got getting it.
There's a few issues;
Not every woman shows (or indicates) what the price is.
Not every man can read the tag.
Demand is often higher than the supply. Though this can go both ways, for a man or a woman. Women just seem more... firm.

I don't make sure she gets off.
I know she gets off. I can tell by the tightening and contractions her VG makes, her moaning, breathing
the squirting, the grabbing, clenching and all of that other good stuff.

I've enough ingenuity to utilize my talents and abilities to do thoughtful things that don't require much money.
Then there are those times I feel taking her out to certain joints/outings warrant spending money. But I do it
not to get her in bed: but because I know we will both have a good time.

Now maybe most women in your experience are needy, and attach value to themselves/access to their private areas.
Not mine.

I've seem woman ticked off because they 'had' to have sex, but I've met very few men who feel angry they 'had' to put out. Although, it honestly could be due to the odds of it happening in reverse.

Dude, totally! I've been with those women.
Perception is more powerful a drug than cocaine dude.
The issue with "having" to have sex Versus wanting to lies with a combination of how you make her feel
and how powerful a sex drive she may (or may not) have.

And I congradulate you on your success.
From your previous posts, I gather you don't bother with 'problem' sex drives? (Not being insulting, just commenting.)

I don't understand, but thanks I don't bother with problem sex drives because there aren't any to speak of.
I'm not ashamed to admit I've had issues with a couple of women in the past but those were still my choices.
So if I had issues in the sack I'd have no problem posting them up here for advice.

It's not a poor analogy.
My labor is my private property, just as a womans body is hers.
I work for money, I work for pleasure, and I work for duty.
Anything I 'pay' is handled the same way. Labor, money, time, even emotions.
Some is done because you are 'earning' something, some is done because you -want- to, and some is done because you are required to.

I understand what you're saying. BUT hear me out:
When you start to tally shit up in your mind: correlating the amount of sex with the amount of cash you've spent 2 get it?
There are bound to be problems when doing so.

Only one of those expenditures has no return expectations.
If for whatever reason, the remaining two are failing to meet expectations, you feel a deficit.

I agree with this: but I don't correlate a monetary value to the amounts of sex I receive.
But I used to. This was because I was T.J Hooker, instead of chasing down bad guys I was chasing down vagina.

I flipped the dynamic and I'm 100% successful.

If spend money to 'earn' a car, you spend money to enjoy a moviel, and you spend money to feed yourself. A failure in the car, or the food results in a far greater 'loss' than a failure in the movie.
This works even with emotions. You 'earn' a love (open up, expose yourself, trust), you enjoy a movie (made you feel good), or you manage your anger in a stressfull situation. Same transactions, same choices, same results. Just different commodities.
When I work, I'm expecting pay, I'm expected to work, and the end result is; I feel good about making my expected paycheck, my boss feels good about the expected work being done.
If the pay, or work is out of balance, one side feels used.

Hate to burst your bubble and maybe it's because you're either inexperienced or young but guess what?

A car, food, a movie are ALL poor excuses for human interaction and only suffice for so long.
A meaningful, lasting relationship lasts a lifetime. Period.

This does NOT work with emotions. For you it does. Not for me.

And sorry, but your reasoning is flawed.
While children being children may result in failed expectations, it does not have to result in a failed child, or parents.
Ditto for the van. If it fails to meet my expectations, I do some math, and decide to fix it, or replace it.
Relationships do not fail because of expectations, they fail because expectations -cannot- be met. (Cannot be fixed, or compromised on)

Children will always fail to meet your expectations.
Your life will be miserable IF you view EVERYTHING as an expectation that doesn't get met.
This is why I don't view it like that at all. If the Van fails you got options. If your children fail to listen.
You either tell them again or discipline. If your wife has a train festival with your neighbors?

This cannot be fixed. She made her bed.
Then again I would never allow myself to be put into this kind of situation because I am an extremely intelligent
and observant person when it comes to choosing a partner. if you get a shock out of left field? Don't blame her.
Blame your lack of due diligence and attentiveness. Woman tell us who they are all the time.

Of course there's more to life than intercourse.
Pick something you enjoy. Then make it hard, or unreasonable to get. It will bother you. Period.
Like pizza? What if you could only get them for $200? Good books? What if you could only get the first half. Satisfied having a full stomach? Hm, you only get a PB&J and a apple a day.

This is a myopic way of viewing things.
I don't let things bother me that I have ZERO control over.
If I could only get pizza for $200 guess what? I'm making my own pizza. -Choice from not being able to make the 1st choice.

Your analogies don't resemble reality so I can't comment on the PB&J and apple comment but even if that were so?
Tough. Food isn't meant to be yummy, enjoyable. It is meant to be fuel and nutrition-dense.

We all have things that we value more than others. We often have multiple sources of 'income' to meet our needs (like you say, sex isn't everything), in case one fails, or fails to provide adequately.
Some things only have limited sources of income, some are limited by choice, some are limited by supply.
I -highly- doubt you would be fine with a sexless relationship if you desired your partner.

Of course. If someone has limited sources of income: they didn't plan their life out all that well.
Account for variable change, and master the thought of things NOT going your way due to circumstances beyond your control. Or? Suffer your entire life with "expectations."

Everyday I wake up dude I'm just the happiest person ever!
I don't have worldly wants nor possessions like I once did.

Now...you highly doubt that I would be fine without sex in a relationship: you would be right. I wouldn't be fine.
The fact is: I never said I would be. I said there are other things to do when sex is unavailable. (BJ was what I implied)

This doesn't mean I would leave her for her sister or demand an open relationship so I could be given a free pass
to marginalize my relationship with her by banging other girls.


You see it as a worldly want because you are getting what you want.
Tell me, honestly, how you would feel if you were in the same relationship, did the exact same things as you do now, but you're almost always refused.


So, if I'm doing a $20/h job, and I treat it as a $20/h job, but I'm only paid $5/h, you'd say quit, or get a raise.
If a woman expects it, and you do it because you want to, it should work out. That's the logic. But just like wages, it's not always a fair transaction.
While peoples needs and wants aren't quite as simple as simple numbers, the same principles apply. If I'm paid $20/h to do a $20/h job, but I'm doing $25/h worth of work because I choose to, it may well not be worth quiting over, but you are looking for a bit more.


.. what? Well damnit, if that's the case, you're right, I've been doing this wrong all along.
I guess I should just start tossing women down and having my way.


Really? Gimme $100 bucks, and I might give it back then.


Right....
So, your expectations dictate what you will and won't do. Be it sex, or money, but not movies.
The only difference is that you won't invest into a sexually lacking relationship, or will cut your losses and move on, while some of us will continue to work at it.

You already apply the logic I've pointed out. So I don't know, maybe some of us are just too 'stupid' to cut our losses and fine fairer game?[/QUOTE]

[Take2]

Yeah, Regnent, uncommunicated expectations are really great for causing strife and unhappiness, not much else.

It's not at all like a car-a car is limited in its function-if you take care of it and expect it to allow you to travel across town, probably doable. If you expect it to make you a sandwich, not gonna happen. And if you expect it to let you drive somewhere, but you don't put the key in the ignition, it won't happen. But its feelings won't get hurt from unreasonable expectations, it will just fail to make the sandwich and sit there waiting for you to drive it somewhere. Your unstated and/or unreasonable expectations can KILL a relationship with a human, where they will have no impact on your relationship with a car.

I can have whatever expectation I want, however trivial or easy to fulfill, or how complex or challenging to fulfill. Yet my chances of having that expectation met skyrocket when I explain it to my partner and get that partner's buy-in AND find out that partner's expectations and agree to work together to make sure both sets are fulfilled.

[AirbenderAang]

A) This girl has an incredibly low sex drive.
Leave her because you have a much higher sex drive. Incompatible sex drive is a deal breaker, unless she is okay with you having mistresses/prostitutes.

B)This girl is not very sexually attracted to you
Leave her because she is likely going to drop you.

C)This girl has a temporarily low sex drive.
Well damn you find out if this is temporary or long term. From the little you have shared, it looks like she has a low sex drive for you. I say the signs point towards leaving her. That is unless you are okay having sex once a week while you are young. If you are okay with it then the problem is solved. If not, I definitely advice talking to her seriously Like, "Sex is really important to me and we are not having sex very often. I have tried to do everything you have asked. I feel like you are communicating that I should accept the level of sex that we have. Am I wrong?"

[Bo]

My lady told me last night that women get extra horny towards their man when:
1. They are happy and in love.
2. They are not stressed
3. They feel loved and appreciated.
4. They appreciate their man.
5. They feel secure about their man.

Lately, asides from some external stress, my woman has been very happy about our relationship. I could not get her off of me this past weekend. I went to bed last night at 10pm, and by 11:30pm, she was on top of me riding me like there was no tomorrow. I didn't expect it, and was actually half-asleep. So this is what I learned.

Very true, stress is a big factor...if i've been at work/school all day i wanna get relaxed before anything happens.

I am not saying that I expect sex from her because I spend money on her... I am just saying that I do a lot of things for her to show that I do take care of her, I bend over backwards to make sure this girl feels like a queen and is always happy. And yes she is a lot happier when I pick up the tabs and bring her home sweet little things... I think that I should be getting laid more because we are both so young.. she seems to enjoy the sex and has orgasms regularly... why is she not putting out? When I try and get rejected... i feel... REJECTED and i get upset and she can tell which does not help my situation. I have talked to her about it and it has resolved nothing.

Are you sure about that buddy? All i gotta say is young men tend to think they are so much greater at sex then they really are. Sorry to say it, but she's probably not feelin the sex hence not putting out. You say she's having orgasms and you know how? Because she's putting on some grandiose O-face whenever you do have sex?

Time to re-evaluate.

I don't like ppl expecting things from me especially sex, and by you bringing up the gifts and picking up tabs you're CLEARLY saying i better get sex after this....BIG turn-off. I'd rather not have a gift at all if it's not out of goodness of someone really just wanting me to be happy. Not someone wanting me to be happy BECAUSE they want sex.

[Regnent]

Yeah, Regnent, uncommunicated expectations are really great for causing strife and unhappiness, not much else.

It's not at all like a car-a car is limited in its function-if you take care of it and expect it to allow you to travel across town, probably doable. If you expect it to make you a sandwich, not gonna happen. And if you expect it to let you drive somewhere, but you don't put the key in the ignition, it won't happen. But its feelings won't get hurt from unreasonable expectations, it will just fail to make the sandwich and sit there waiting for you to drive it somewhere. Your unstated and/or unreasonable expectations can KILL a relationship with a human, where they will have no impact on your relationship with a car.

I can have whatever expectation I want, however trivial or easy to fulfill, or how complex or challenging to fulfill. Yet my chances of having that expectation met skyrocket when I explain it to my partner and get that partner's buy-in AND find out that partner's expectations and agree to work together to make sure both sets are fulfilled.

We don't expect our cars to make sandwiches . We get cars for a reason, transportation. We get in relationships for a reason, company, intimacy, etc. I don't have a wife to get piggy back rides.
But you are right, cars don't have feelings. They show us their expectations, and mood. We know how fast they are going, whether you need to change gears, how much fuel, or whether there's something 'wrong' that needs to be fixed. If we neglect what it tells us, it stops, or dies.
But unlike a car, which makes it's needs known, people aren't always so forthcoming.
If a partner isn't comfortable, or chooses to withhold how they feel, it complicates it more than it needs to.

Besides, my argument isn't that expectations aren't (or are) communicated, it's that they are reasonable (or at least natural).
I get so very tired seeing reply's that basically place expectations into the unreasonable/unfair category.

So what if he got flowers with evil, expectational motives. Whether it's simply a display of affection, or an attempt at getting laid, there's going to be a negative feeling if the display, or attempt felt wasted.
Even if I were to buy flowers for no 'reason' at all, which I do, and they were left on the floor to rot, I'm going to feel negativly about it. There's still an expectation regardless. I could keep buying them, and placing them on the floor with the old ones, but there was a purpose in the first place.

A woman can say that her partner doesn't say he loves her, even after she says I love you, and no ones going to throw stop having expectation of love thrown at you. It's considered reasonable.

A guy can say that he feel neglected, or unattractive, or just plain unhappy because he's not getting laid, and he's trying, and there's always comments about not having expectations.
It's a load of crap. It's unacceptable to 'expect' sex because it's her body. Screw that.

I can take 'Hey, I just don't want to have sex with you.', or 'Hey, you suck, I'm not really interested', or 'I'm tired', or 'I'm a closet lesbian'.
Throw a 'stop expecting it' and I get annoyed. It's some special case. Stop using it an an excuse, tell the truth, be honest, and maybe I'll accept that as an answer.

[LonelyJoe]

Just treat her like a human being. She may not want to be taken out every night or be bought a ton of things. Sometimes just hanging out in bed and watching a chick flick can go a long way. Give it a shot and see what happens

[Regnent]

I don't make sure she gets off.
Now maybe most women in your experience are needy, and attach value to themselves/access to their private areas.
Not mine.

If you were not as ingenious, and talented as you are, and failed to make her shudder by just being you, I doubt these same women would be as free with their bodies.
That is the point, not your skill, or the ability to keep a woman happy, but that there is a distinct 'trade'.

Dude, totally! I've been with those women.
Perception is more powerful a drug than cocaine dude.
The issue with "having" to have sex Versus wanting to lies with a combination of how you make her feel
and how powerful a sex drive she may (or may not) have.

I personally think the perception is more negative for women because they often don't have a 'self driven' sex drive. I'm sure they feel more pressure, and thus are more sensitive to the expectations. Personal opinion of course. Plus, many men have no issues using a woman and tossing them aside, which I'm sure doesn't help our situation as a whole.

I don't understand, but thanks I don't bother with problem sex drives because there aren't any to speak of.
I'm not ashamed to admit I've had issues with a couple of women in the past but those were still my choices.
So if I had issues in the sack I'd have no problem posting them up here for advice.

There was no performance shot at you, I simply said you don't bother with a woman who's not 'easy'. (Not loose, but easy to -you-) One you can work, and keep happy and willing without anything you would consider 'extra' or 'excessive' work.

I understand what you're saying. BUT hear me out:
When you start to tally shit up in your mind: correlating the amount of sex with the amount of cash you've spent 2 get it?
There are bound to be problems when doing so.

People tally shit up all the time. Doesn't even have to be concious. You burn your finger on the stove 3 times, it's tallied, and you start paying more attention.
Same thing when someone chooses to do something, whether it's being nice, or 'earning' or working. Thinking about going out, you cross off the things you know she doesn't like, bump up the things she does, and maybe add a few new ones based on previous experience. That's all compared to what you like, and blah blah, you come up with something both should enjoy. Even you skills were developed by tally's. This worked enough to be worthy, this didn't, this is hit or miss, but worth trying, etc.
I'm not talking as simple as on a peice of paper with little ticks, or keeping track in an agenda, it's a general reference you use and apply to help direct your choices to the most successfull outcome.

I agree with this: but I don't correlate a monetary value to the amounts of sex I receive.
But I used to. This was because I was T.J Hooker, instead of chasing down bad guys I was chasing down vagina.

I flipped the dynamic and I'm 100% successful.

I don't correlate a monetary 'value' to sex either, but that doesn't mean it's a... nothing. It still has a value and worth to a person. Sometimes it's not much, sometimes it's important enough to move onto easier pastures.

Hate to burst your bubble and maybe it's because you're either inexperienced or young but guess what?

A car, food, a movie are ALL poor excuses for human interaction and only suffice for so long.
A meaningful, lasting relationship lasts a lifetime. Period.

This does NOT work with emotions. For you it does. Not for me.

They were not excuses(??), but analogy's. Emotional relationships are about an equal, or functional exchange. You -can- compare it to buying, or maintaining a car. It's not something as simple, but the correlation is there.

Children will always fail to meet your expectations.
Your life will be miserable IF you view EVERYTHING as an expectation that doesn't get met.
This is why I don't view it like that at all. If the Van fails you got options. If your children fail to listen.
You either tell them again or discipline. If your wife has a train festival with your neighbors?

Expectations vary. As well, not everything is about expectations, but expectations are part of what we use to define and reach our goals.
Fact is still we all have a fair number of expectations. Anything we're not willing to just let be, can be considered an expectation.
The reason why you follow through with telling them again, or discipline, is because you will do what you feel is required to have your expectations met. Otherwise, you'd just accept it as failed, and move on.

Don't blame her.
Blame your lack of due diligence and attentiveness. Woman tell us who they are all the time.

Debatable. I, personally, have no issue admitting that my -one- relationship has probably left me a bit short on the experience end of things, but that doesn't mean my partner (or anyone elses for that matter), are clear and direct when communicating their needs.
When I'm asked what I want to eat, and I feel like a surprise, I would say 'surprise me'. Some women (even guys) will say 'I don't know'
I personally don't have time for games, hints, or tests. If my partner wants, or needs something I want her to come up, and say, I want or need this. I don't want hints, or clues, or having to guess.
I'm not in grade school anymore. I like communication, but I like clear communication.

This is a myopic way of viewing things.
I don't let things bother me that I have ZERO control over.
If I could only get pizza for $200 guess what? I'm making my own pizza. -Choice from not being able to make the 1st choice.

Your analogies don't resemble reality so I can't comment on the PB&J and apple comment but even if that were so?
Tough. Food isn't meant to be yummy, enjoyable. It is meant to be fuel and nutrition-dense.

No, it's not near sighted. It's simply a simplified example of how someone can feel when they can have something, but it's not made clear how they can get it simply enough to not be frustrating.
There's conditions (that even you agree exist) to getting laid. But when the conditions are not expressed in any clear form, there becomes an issue with how to get it.
Your pizza is 20, but they're not going to tell you 20 what. Cents, dollars, bark chips, they will only tell you no, or simply refuse to give you the pizza even though you are offering 20 somethings.
It's perfectly reasonable to want to know that it's 20 pop cans, at which point getting the pizza isn't so much a matter of failed expectations, you just have your pizza.

You say you keep your women happy, and you get it when you want it. And you know if you don't keep em happy, you won't be getting any/much. You also know that if the 'happy' is too much work, you'll find something more 'affordable'. Those are the points I'm making.

Of course. If someone has limited sources of income: they didn't plan their life out all that well.
Account for variable change, and master the thought of things NOT going your way due to circumstances beyond your control. Or? Suffer your entire life with "expectations."

Well, I'm not in a situation where I can, or want to just swap out something that can be troublesome. Many people are in those situations. I'm personally generally quite satisfied with my life, and my relationship, but I'm still missing something I find important. And I will put extra effort and energy into trying to get it. If I happen to find a point where I don't think it's attainable, I'll change how I'm approaching it.

Now...you highly doubt that I would be fine without sex in a relationship: you would be right. I wouldn't be fine.
The fact is: I never said I would be. I said there are other things to do when sex is unavailable. (BJ was what I implied)

This doesn't mean I would leave her for her sister or demand an open relationship so I could be given a free pass
to marginalize my relationship with her by banging other girls.

Sorry, I assumed that 'sex' in this discussion was a generalized term for any sexual intimacy.
Sorry, no BJ's, no handjobs, no intercourse. You can cuddle, or hold hands, and kiss (PG only!).
Ok, sorry, not at all, but infrequent. Like, every 2nd week, to 2nd month.
But hey, everything else is good. Wheres that leave you?