Violent Crime: Who or what is to blame?

[vashti]

I was actually listening to a retired cop on the radio this morning. He was talking about how he'd spent time in the Philippines and how there were guns everywhere but next to no crime. However, we live in a violent society. Something isn't right in America...

I was thinking about this today, thinking about the similarity between this guy and former mass murderers, and how our society is different than others. I wonder if misogyny may play a role. In many other societies, women assume more traditional roles than they do here in America, and I wonder if these men lack the ability to cope with not knowing their role. It isn't a well-thought out theory; just something I was kicking around.

[anachronistic]

I know 3, one of which is my own grandmother. she died in a coma a few days after she got shot. i really don't want to talk about it.

i also spent the first 15 years of my life in a city. we moved to south dakota so my mom could be with her lover. and i don't even live in a town. i live in the middle of nowhere. a small trailor in the middle of nowhere.

[Gribble]

Interesting idea, Vashti. Certainly something to mull over. I know I was totally confused coming up. Everybody's split on how a guy should act.

[vashti]

I know 3, one of which is my own grandmother. she died in a coma a few days after she got shot. i really don't want to talk about it.

You know, this post is sort of a conversation killer. I would be interested in knowing if her shooting was random or if it was someone she knew because I think it might affect your position on gun ownership, but if you don't want to talk about it...

i also spent the first 15 years of my life in a city. we moved to south dakota so my mom could be with her lover. and i don't even live in a town. i live in the middle of nowhere. a small trailor in the middle of nowhere.

What city? I thought you were a small-town boy. Of course, next to Los Angeles, very few places feel as urban...

[vashti]

I know I was totally confused coming up. Everybody's split on how a guy should act.

Really? I always just kind of thought people ultimately ARE who they are supposed to be, and the confusion is merely over accepting that reality. It must be hard to be male.

Anyway, another theory: Maybe people nowadays are lacking in the purpose and meaning that life held prior to post-modern deconstruction. You know... "Things Fall Apart".

[Tiay]

Another awful tragedy. I think there's definitely something up with the mind of the nation, not just the availability of guns. Guns are in the soul of the states, even if you could make every firearm evaporate spontaneously. I've never heard of an Irish person wanting the right to have a gun as a basic citizen right- even though guns were needed in Ireland gaining independence from the UK. The regular police don't have guns either. Bank deliveries are escorted by the military, though.

I think vashti may be on to something. It's certainly not video games and heavy metal music- those may play some tiny part, but you gotta be crazy to begin with if that's the tipping point.


...Hey, I can't wait to go to the states this summer.. :/

[anachronistic]

You know, this post is sort of a conversation killer. I would be interested in knowing if her shooting was random or if it was someone she knew because I think it might affect your position on gun ownership, but if you don't want to talk about it...



What city? I thought you were a small-town boy. Of course, next to Los Angeles, very few places feel as urban...

i'm not really sure who did it. it happened when i was only 8 years old. i'm afraid to ask my mom. i think that there was a gun fight and she was shopping downtown with some friends and caught a bullet.

toledo ohio is where i'm from. toledo is a nice sized city that's composed of several very large townships, such as perrysburg, maumee, sylvania, and a few others. it's located in the northwestern corner of ohio.

[Only-virgins]

The only person to blame shot himself, leave it alone.

[vashti]

Toledo (compared to Los Angeles) is very, very small and pretty homogenous. I don't think it would compare to a big city.

Anyway, sorry about your granny. I think it is shocking you are so accepting of guns given that experience. Perhaps this is due to your young age at the time it happened. As for me, I am fed up with gun violence, and that DOESN'T make me narrow-minded. The rest of the world thinks we are freakin' nuts for tolerating so much violence. I am inclined to agree.

[TDurden]

The bottom line is that the world would be better off without any guns. That's inarguable; it's not even an opinion that's just a straight fact. Given that fact, I say we remove guns from our society and if people don't like it, **** 'em, it's a privilege, not a right and they've abused it too much.

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOU NEEDS A GUN.

If you want to go hunting, use a crossbow. Or better yet, play fair and chase the animal down and break it's neck. If you're hunting with anything other than your bare hands, you're a pussy.

[Junket]

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOU NEEDS A GUN.

If you want to go hunting, use a crossbow. Or better yet, play fair and chase the animal down and break it's neck. If you're hunting with anything other than your bare hands, you're a pussy.

Who said anything about "need"?

Since when did evolution favor those who "played fair"?

Shit, if hunting with a gun would make me a pussy, what the **** am I considering I've never shot any of the meat on my table?

Shall we delve into vegetarianism as well?

[Ath]

Now, I agree that the ability to purchase a firearm in this country is a bit lax at times, but think of the implications of imposing gun control at this point. I'de venture to say the vastmajority of gun owners are never going to go off and use those guns for an improper reason. At the same time, I'de suppose that most gun owners would have no problem registering their fire-arms if mandated by the government. Say they took gun-control to the extreme and came to each residence and demanded a turn in of their fire-arms. If the government/police/etc came to my door and demanded mine, I'de probably turn it in. But the problem is that the intended audience of the control would typicaly be unaffected. Either through not declaring the fire-arm, or obtaining it from a less than reputable source. In the end, people are responsible for their own actions, not the tools at their disposal.

Am I in favor of everyone having guns? Hell no! I'de like a much higher critieria for legally obtaining them. That at least would keep a few more out of hands of minors and others ill-equiped to handle fire-arms.

Oh.. I'm from Alabama, so bear with me

[TDurden]

Who said anything about "need"?

Since when did evolution favor those who "played fair"?

Shit, if hunting with a gun would make me a pussy, what the **** am I considering I've never shot any of the meat on my table?

Shall we delve into vegetarianism as well?

Personally I'd be fine with living in a self-made hut, having to hunt for my own food and provide all my own basic needs. But no one else is going to do that so to pursue that idea would be foolish on my part as it wouldn't really have any positive effect on the world.

With technology what we need to remember is that just because it's available doesn't mean we should use it or have it. And you and I both know that guns aren't part of the group of things we should have or use. Your entire argument consists of "well i should be able to do whatever i want because it's my life". But again, we both know that that is irrational and arguing for gun rights just because it's something to have is illogical. We as people have an innate responsibility to the community because if the community dies, so do we. What you're continually suggesting is that we live in a society that is truly survival of the fittest. But that isn't true either as is evidenced by Fox news.

What I'm asking now is that you provide a logical argument for why all Americans should be able to go town to K-Mart and buy a rifle. Not a party line and not some trite "i thought this was america!" bumper-sticker quote, but a real, thought out argument for why guns are important to our society.

[misombra]

I don't know if you are aware, but my husband works for a forensic crime lab, so I know all about the amount of time, money and manpower that is invested in putting drug addicts in jail. I also know how big the backlog is in the firearms department because they are vastly shorthanded, while there is a huge number of people (whose time might be better spent) working in the narcotics section. Firearms cases are sometimes dismissed due to lack of manpower to test weapons (to look for links to other crimes) before the cases go to court. How dumb is *that*??

it's ironic cause about 3/4 of firearm crimes are alcohol related.

[misombra]

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOU NEEDS A GUN.

as they say, it's better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.