which side?

[Zekk_T_Strife]

I didn't say I'm not voting, but politics DO NOT affect my day to day life. I work, I run my business, I get paid, I pay my bills, I buy things I want. That is my daily routine. I don't deal with foreign policy ever let alone on a day to day basis. Really the only thing that affects me directly is the raising or lowering of taxes and those are pretty negligable. Regardless of how much they make me pay in taxes I'm still claiming myself as a dependant because I go to school fulltime, that and either way I make enough for my bills. So no, politics are a worthless thing to spend any relatively moderate amount of time on.

[KirstyM]

I'm sure politics affect your work and business, it will affect payment because the government decide the minimum wage for your age group, it affects your bills, it affects the prices of the things you buy and where you can buy them.

[nomas]

Zekk, you should really inform yourself more. Politics DOES play a big role in your life. Now it's true that we're little people in all of this, but with such a close race this year, like the last presidential election, you can make a difference, one, with your vote, and two, talking to others about the way you see things and maybe getting them to vote your way.

Consider this: under the Bush administration, he brought down taxes..that means less money going into the federal government..but then he turns around and increases government spending??!! It's called deficit spending...just throwing it on the credit card and the debt gets bigger and bigger and this causes instability in the economy because you're living on the edge and one day that debt will get too big and the bubble will burst. It's what happened to the Soviet Union...during the Cold War years they were trying to keep up with the US so the gov. would spend more and more and one day it explodeded on them, and it affects everybody. Maybe the extremely wealthy could use it to their advantage, but it's a trickle down. When the economy is bad, there is less money to go around, so there's less jobs because you can't afford to pay out employees, so less people have jobs, less money, less people will go into your store, whatever it is you sell, to shop and soon enough you'll go out of business and be unable to get a job.

It may seem like a stretch becuase you'd never think it could happen to the most powerful country in the world, but all empires that have risen have fallen and you just keep an eye on that deficit spending.

The environment is another big issue. You enjoy nice clean water and air right now and in all honesty wouldn't detect bad water or air if it was minimal..but the effects would catch up with you later on in your life, really decreasing your quality of life in your "Golden Years". But I'll let you do your own research on the effect that some of the Bush policies on the environment will cause.

Foreign policy is also something you should consider as important. Especially if you live in a big city. I did not agree with the war on Iraq. That alone is enough to make me do what I can to get Bush out of the white house. I think there are more people hating America thanks to that invasion and it has made the lives of those in NY, DC or other big cities more inconvenient. It has made my travel ambitions less convenient. If this leads to other wars, you may be looking at a reinstitution of the draft which, you better believe will affect you.

Now I know that one is a far stretch, but not impossible.

Yeah, things are fine right now as you see them. The country looks stable enough that one polititian is the same as another. It's true that campaigns are run as no more than a favorable projection of your candidate versus a negative projection of the opponent. And it's true that news is 90% bullshit and that CNN news will have a left wing biase versus FOX news will have a right wing biase, versus talk radio which have a lot of conservatives running their mouth speaking of what's wrong with the liberals and hollywood being predominantly liberal. But you have to pick and choose what you believe. Watch some Frontline..some PBS- the non-affiliated independant news. The NPR's. Don't just see the good things each government does, because they'll be quick to point that out and try to hide the negatives which only deep digging investigative reporting articles will give you.

You may decide you don't give a damn and that things will be the same regardless of who's in office, like they say..you can't complain when shit hits the fan if you were completely indifferent and uninterested.

Now to answer the question. I like to think of myself as "independant", issue by issue, but I know Nader doesn't stand a chance, and like I say, being this such a close race, I have to choose the lesser of the two evils and Bush already proved himself a very non-desirable leader in my eyes.

Freddie

[Illusional]

back to what i was saying before.. i problem free lifestyle is too nonchalant... maybe i should care more, but i just live my life one day at a time. raverboy

[Zekk_T_Strife]

Still not giving me anything. Most small businesses like me don't deal with any tax except sales tax. They pay employees cash, make money orders for product instead of depositing, they simply don't pay nearly as much as they should be and they get away with it. Personally, I'd rather be legitimate and pay the taxes, but as I said before how much the taxes are are pretty much the only difference to me when it comes to who's in office and that difference itself is pretty negligable. I'll admit to you freely nomas, I ignored most of your post. Once you mentioned deficit spending and I saw the term Cold War used in there I stopped reading. I'll put it simply as I can. I DON'T CARE!!! I do what I have to do, I really don't give two shits about what the government does. Taxes are the only thing that directly affects me, that's why I vote Republican regardless of who the candidate is. You can piss and moan about the operation of our nations government but you can't make me give a shit. Our president will **** up, so will the next, so will the next, so will the next, but who cares? Regardless of how bad a president is or how good a president is I'll still be living my life, doing what I need to do to enjoy it, not caring in the slightest what your overplayed drama is up to now. Try to understand just how unimportant politics are to me. There is NO need to become informed on something I'm not passionate about, hate, and never plan to have a part in.

[BillyGalbreath]

the government blows ass chunks !! Its all lies and coruption

like Zekk said - WHO GIVES A FLYING **** !!

yes - i am VERY anti-government - but i aint no terrorist ! I just simply disagree with every form of government there is.

Every man for themself - thats the way the world should be.

[nomas]

I'm not saying you have to care or be passionate about it..but to say it doesn't affect you is ignorant. It affects everyone..but there may be some truth to the matter of it making little difference who's in office. Kerry will accept special interests moneys just as much as Bush will. It's a matter of pick your poison. You're right. If you're just one person casting one vote, your contribution is next to negligible. But if you are having discussions, trying to inform people..it becomes more substantial. Then if you're all out an activist, FORCING people to open their eyes, then a few of those people can make a pretty good difference. They are the people who go down in the history books. They are the Martin Luthor Kings of the world.

But in the end the equation always balances out. There are those who really care, there are those who really don't, there are those in between. If you've got it good and it doesn't seem like your lifestyle is in any kind of jeopardy, it's easy not to care what goes on outside of your bubble. Billy, there are negatives to having a strong central government, but there are also positives. I could go off here too, but I think that this discussion on politics may be more trouble than it's worth. For some reason whether your views are left, right, or bliss, for the most part people hang to it so passionately that we filter out what we don't want to hear, or would rather not know.

Freddie

[Zekk_T_Strife]

..but to say it doesn't affect you is ignorant.

Not necessarily. I said it my first post that it does affect me, but only to the point of it being negligible. The ONLY way I'm directly affected is taxes and I really couldn't care less. I live humbly enough to survive on a fourth of my current pay. You can't bring up war as a viable effect seeing as how after Vietnam they will not be reinstating the draft. The government would get torn apart if they tried to. You invest too much importance in a worthless drama publicized for your consumption.

[nomas]

Actually, I don't invest nearly as much time as maybe I should...and I disagree on politics being a reality soap opera for us to follow just for the purposes of entertainment. Granted, the media will often times overdramaticize any news for the purposes of ratings, but I don't at all think that it's all just a show.

Freddie

[Zekk_T_Strife]

The news is made by liberals and it hardly an accurate medium for knowledge let alone wisdom to be acquired. If ignorance is what you want to evade there are better places to go than looking to politics. It's all a matter of importance really, I find politics entirely useless and a waste of time to even think about. Others think its their life, just another taste really. Therefore I really can't condone attempting to FORCE people to "open their eyes" to a place where all they see is darkness. It's not for everyone. And it's like I said earlier, if we elected leaders instead of politicians it may be a different story.

[nomas]

When I said "ignorance", I was strickly speaking on topic..not in general, just about the effects of politics in the lives of us all. It's all tied in, man...the strongest influence on the economy is politics. Politically unstable countries have unstable economies. Politically stable countries tend to be better off economically. Think of the difference between a first world and third world country.

Politicians are, by definition, leaders of nations and states. The fact that it has truly become a popularity contest of the wealthy and politically connected and their teams of campaigners is unfortunate, but the fact remains that they are elected into office where they then surround themselves with at least a couple of intelligent people to inform them and help them make decision...not to mention write their speaches so that the president's job becomes reading flashcards...but of course, this is oversimplification..

I don't know where your basis is that "the new is made by liberals". I think conservatives report just as much as liberals do. I really don't follow you there..maybe you can elaborate.

Freddie

[Zekk_T_Strife]

Politician (n) - One who seeks personal or partisan gain, often by scheming and maneuvering.

Leader (n) - One that leads or guides.

These are NOT THE SAME!!! Politicians make promises to the people as to how they can cater to them so win favor. Leaders do not require favor, they promote people in helping themselves and acts as a pillar of support to get them where they need to be. Politicians are worthless.

As for the second part of your post, if you feel that conservatives and liberals both share equal amounts of media coverage then you do not look at the media.

I still have yet to see any specific way politics affects my day to day life or why I should care in the slightest about it.

[Illusional]

oh brother.. .and i always wondered when there would finally be a thread on politics. raverboy

[Zekk_T_Strife]

It's pretty amazing there hasn't been a single one in my 27 month tour of the boards.

[Illusional]

yup.. that's why i'm so surpized. this is the first one that i've ever seen on this board. then again, it is election time again. thus, the lies begin. raverboy