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Thread: Screwed over BAD

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    Coming here and posting today has helped me immensely. I cant thank each and everyone of you (except for one person) enough. When you get to be a certain age and you meet the right person and that person makes you believe she's what you've been looking for all your life dealing with a broken heart isnt a thought. When it happens your devastated. I've worked for a major airline for about 20 years and dated my fair share of flight attendants and none of them lied to me like my ex did. During our entire relationship I thought she'd eventually come around and treat me the way she wanted to be treated but unfortunately it never happened. There's no doubt in my mind that Im the last thing on her mind, Im sure she's back on FB flirting and asking guys for their number like she was when we first moved in together. Thanks again

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    God bless your soul Tug. You said you worked for airline for 20 years. Why cant you start flying RC plane models? Its relaxing and addicting and you culd met like minded people. Start with Champ or something simple and get it going.
    Last edited by pcmaster; 02-11-13 at 12:20 AM.
    Doubt kills more dreams than failure ever will

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcmaster View Post
    God bless your soul Tug. You said you worked for airline for 20 years. Why cant you start flying RC plane models? Its relaxing and addicting and you culd met like minded people. Start with Champ or something simple and get it going.
    Thank you PCMaster but Im still at the stage where Im having a hard getting out of bed and starting my day. I have health issues as well and theres times that I think God has deserted me but just when Im ready to call it quits he shows me a sign which gives me the strength to make it through another day. My g/f doing what she did to wasnt necessary all I ever asked for was for her to be honest with me. I gave her so many chances to end it but she never did, instead she led me to believe I was the person she wanted to spend the rest of her life with. Little did I know I'd be sharing her life with her ex H. Thanks again

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    I definitely think the problem was with her. It is good that she is no longer in your life. She is a liar and a cheat. Try to get over it as quickly as you can. Not all women are like that.
    Try changing your life a bit. Working out works well because it changes your synaptic 'soup' in your brain chemistry. Just get out there man and forget about her!

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    I was by no means perfect so it wasnt all her but I was honest about everything I was doing and hid nothing. Had she told me about all the texting and phone calls to other guys I would have never stopped seeing other women but she told me she wanted a monogamous relationship. We had an agreement that she need never stuck to. She called me a ****ing liar one day because I was talking to my mom for 45 minutes on the phone, when she called on her break I didnt take her call. Come to find out a month prior she was asking an ex-coworker for his number on FB. When I found out about it she said she never called him and I was stupid enough to believe her. Thats when I gave her the ultimatum, FB or me.

    Just reading about all the BS I allowed her to put me through hurts. It was clear she wanted her cake and eat it to and I was so much in love I honestly believed she loved me.
    Last edited by Tug; 02-11-13 at 08:00 AM.

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    i hear you tug...its hard....sometimes i wake up remembering how we first "fell in love"...how i killed a spider for her and fell asleep with my head on her chest and thats when she first knew she loved me.....when we were remodeling my place...wed turn the radio on...work...get some takeout...i had never been so happy and never felt so alive.....and in an instant they snatch all of that away and walk away without a care in the world....

    the last four months we fought alot...one i said "maybe we were meant to learn something from being with each other and to be friends"..."i cant be just your friend...i dont wanna look and see u happy with someone else someday"-which is funny since the one issue i had with her she never worked on.......we had one fight where i basically went into my apartment and locked the door(because she had blown up over something stupid in one of her bpd rages and i wanted no part of a confrontation)...she tried to get in and i just let her be outside and her father had to come get her....i heard him say "thats enough of this...this is ridiculous" through the window.....later were talking on text...she says "do u ever wish that you never asked me out" i said "no but it sounds like you do"...."no but i wonder where wed both be if u hadnt"....i said "well i did...and this is where were at..i know why im here and what i want....but if its not for you...if its not worth it to you and u dont want to do this anymore you need to tell me...so tell me what you want"....."well i think i need to sleep on it"...."ok do what u need to do"....the next morning she says shes going to come over when i get out of work and says "what are you doing for dinner".....she comes over and sits down and says "my parents are pissed at me for coming over here" "well i know you put alot of stock in what they have to say so what do u want to do".....and of course we seemingly worked it out....another time after that i said "look i believe you love me...in some way....weve known each other since we were kids i know you care about me....but i dont think you are in love with me anymore and you arent commited to us"..."no thats not it ive just never been treated like this".....

    later to be told "i was slowly falling out of love with you but i didnt want to...everytime you threatned to leave i was so scared you would ...everytime u told me were not right it tore a piece of my heart"......i had prepared myself mentally for us breaking up for awhile even though i didnt really want to....i didnt care if she wanted someone better looking or richer or whatever.....but she left me hanging on and began preparing to move on while leaving me there 5 hours away from friends and family.....

    Oh ya, dude, she bought me a Bible to, it was like, the most touching gift I ever got and she got it for me way back in the beginning. She could quote it, turn to pages just like your Ex in a moments notice. It was nice, refreshing, it was good. I don't know if your Ex believed this or not like my Ex did but she believed no matter what, God has a path for us, no matter what we do, it's all chosen for us, our choices are not our own, they're his and I think she used this as excuses like, it's okay to treat someone like shit because this is the path God has set forth for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overanxious View Post
    i hear you tug...its hard....sometimes i wake up remembering how we first "fell in love"..
    Oh ya, dude, she bought me a Bible to, it was like, the most touching gift I ever got and she got it for me way back in the beginning. She could quote it, turn to pages just like your Ex in a moments notice. It was nice, refreshing, it was good. I don't know if your Ex believed this or not like my Ex did but she believed no matter what, God has a path for us, no matter what we do, it's all chosen for us, our choices are not our own, they're his and I think she used this as excuses like, it's okay to treat someone like shit because this is the path God has set forth for you.
    Over, it sounds like we dated the same kind of woman. I could see she was moving on but there wasnt anything I could do to stop it. She no longer wanted to go the gym with me but started doing Insanity at home and listening more and more to her daughter since her daughter was a coach. Her entire family thought I was the devil himself because she would run to them and tell them what I did or said making herself look like the victim. There wasnt one of her kids who helped her go behind my back but they dont see that, the only thing they see is what their mother told them.

    Back in early August when I decided I couldnt take it anymore and we were through I was sitting upstairs on the computer and she was downstairs on the watching tv. We were past the point of arguing and agreed I could still live there. Anyway, about 8:30 one evening I heard a knock on the door, I could here her talking but no one else. All of I sudden I heard a mans voice call my name not thinking anything about it I yelled "YO". When I turned around there was a cop standing in the doorway of the den. He said "whats the problem?" I answered "there's not a problem, not that I know of". He told me to put my hands on my head and come downstairs. Again, he asked 'whats the problem?" I gave him the same reply. I was very respectful to him and never gave him a reason to think I was any kind of threat. He put handcuffs on me and asked me if I had any warrants. I told him no and he asked for my drivers license. I showed him where my wallet was and he ran my ID to see if I was telling him the truth. He asked me if we were fighting and I told him no, he than asked me if we WERE fighting a couple of weeks ago. Again I told him no, I told him we had argued about all her lying but I realized she cant be trusted and ended the relationship. He said "so it is what it is than, there's no fighting?". I concurred. He went into the formal living room to talk to my g/f and the female cop that was talking to her. Obviously my g/f told him the same thing I did so he came back and took the cuffs off and they left. I asked her what that was all about and she said her daughter was worried about her so they called the cops. Her daughter never called her on the land line or her cell phone or sent her a text. She came to the conclusion that her mom was in danger and called the cops. I asked my g/f what she'd been telling everyone to make everyone she knows think I was such an animal. Even after her lying to me about her ex, me seeing she was asking other guys for their phone numbers on FB AND finding a pair of mans socks that didnt belong to me on my dresser I never became violent. I became angry but I never pointed a finger at her much less raised a hand to her. Calling her names upset her so I agreed when we first started dating to never call her a name out of anger and never did. I went on and said that this is what I can expect from now on? Your daughter gets a wild hair, calls the police and I get handcuffed? She said no and that she would talk to her daughter about it

    Her other daughter helped my g/f go behind my back and get on FB using an alias after she gave me her word she wouldnt and her son who is an iphone/mac guru helped her hide what she was doing on her phone. The entire time she was telling me "she's never loved anyone more than she loved me" Thats just an idea of what I went through, it gets worst, much worst but not only did I stay there were times I begged her not to break up with me. I was once called weak and pathetic by someone on this forum and that person was right. She didnt respect me because I didnt respect myself enough to man up and get the hell out of there, she was toxic and I knew it but I still stayed only to be abused some more.

    The pain I feel isnt nearly as bad as it could be only because I see her for what she is and know regardless of how I feel about her I could never allow myself to go back to that situation. Like her ex H said, "she needs to attract the attention of other men, she's always been like that and will never change". I see that now and know that the woman I loved so much wasnt capable of making the same sacrifices I had made to make sure she knew she was the only woman in my life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tug View Post
    Over, it sounds like we dated the same kind of woman. I could see she was moving on but there wasnt anything I could do to stop it. She no longer wanted to go the gym with me but started doing Insanity at home and listening more and more to her daughter since her daughter was a coach. Her entire family thought I was the devil himself because she would run to them and tell them what I did or said making herself look like the victim. There wasnt one of her kids who helped her go behind my back but they dont see that, the only thing they see is what their mother told them.

    Back in early August when I decided I couldnt take it anymore and we were through I was sitting upstairs on the computer and she was downstairs on the watching tv. We were past the point of arguing and agreed I could still live there. Anyway, about 8:30 one evening I heard a knock on the door, I could here her talking but no one else. All of I sudden I heard a mans voice call my name not thinking anything about it I yelled "YO". When I turned around there was a cop standing in the doorway of the den. He said "whats the problem?" I answered "there's not a problem, not that I know of". He told me to put my hands on my head and come downstairs. Again, he asked 'whats the problem?" I gave him the same reply. I was very respectful to him and never gave him a reason to think I was any kind of threat. He put handcuffs on me and asked me if I had any warrants. I told him no and he asked for my drivers license. I showed him where my wallet was and he ran my ID to see if I was telling him the truth. He asked me if we were fighting and I told him no, he than asked me if we WERE fighting a couple of weeks ago. Again I told him no, I told him we had argued about all her lying but I realized she cant be trusted and ended the relationship. He said "so it is what it is than, there's no fighting?". I concurred. He went into the formal living room to talk to my g/f and the female cop that was talking to her. Obviously my g/f told him the same thing I did so he came back and took the cuffs off and they left. I asked her what that was all about and she said her daughter was worried about her so they called the cops. Her daughter never called her on the land line or her cell phone or sent her a text. She came to the conclusion that her mom was in danger and called the cops. I asked my g/f what she'd been telling everyone to make everyone she knows think I was such an animal. Even after her lying to me about her ex, me seeing she was asking other guys for their phone numbers on FB AND finding a pair of mans socks that didnt belong to me on my dresser I never became violent. I became angry but I never pointed a finger at her much less raised a hand to her. Calling her names upset her so I agreed when we first started dating to never call her a name out of anger and never did. I went on and said that this is what I can expect from now on? Your daughter gets a wild hair, calls the police and I get handcuffed? She said no and that she would talk to her daughter about it

    Her other daughter helped my g/f go behind my back and get on FB using an alias after she gave me her word she wouldnt and her son who is an iphone/mac guru helped her hide what she was doing on her phone. The entire time she was telling me "she's never loved anyone more than she loved me" Thats just an idea of what I went through, it gets worst, much worst but not only did I stay there were times I begged her not to break up with me. I was once called weak and pathetic by someone on this forum and that person was right. She didnt respect me because I didnt respect myself enough to man up and get the hell out of there, she was toxic and I knew it but I still stayed only to be abused some more.

    The pain I feel isnt nearly as bad as it could be only because I see her for what she is and know regardless of how I feel about her I could never allow myself to go back to that situation. Like her ex H said, "she needs to attract the attention of other men, she's always been like that and will never change". I see that now and know that the woman I loved so much wasnt capable of making the same sacrifices I had made to make sure she knew she was the only woman in my life.
    thats a shitty story man....and ya thats the saddest part man.....the sacrifices we made....the way our heart was true....for nothing....

    and they always have to paint you as the animal and them the victim.....went through the same shit....everytime we went through something or a fight...it was right to her parents....i even told some coworkers how that always happened and they said "thats immature if you have a problem you deal with it between the two of you"....but i always got painted to be the bad guy.....and i know its a personality disorder....but you wonder why people have to act that way...why they just cant come clean and say they arent happy with you anymore.....its like they need some outsider to covince them they need to let go.....i was going to church one sunday with her and we were running late she says "do you want a coffee"...i said "no were running late ill get one after"...."well i want one"..."ok lets go then"....when were late her mother asked her why we were late(which was because she takes forever to get ready and has no concept of time) and she said "oh he wanted his coffee".....really? and then she later denied saying it

    it just sucks that these people do this stuff....especially when you put it out there that maybe u could/should part ways....yet they keep you in there....and keep painting you out to be some devil...its like some ****ed up game....one day they are rushing into your bed to wake you up with kisses and have you got blackberrying with their grandparents...the next they are making u look like an asshole

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    Damn dude it sounds like you were dating my ex's evil twin. I agree it is a personality the disorder. The kicker is she would tell everyone else the truth. I asked her if she lies to her best friend at work like she lies to me? Naturally she said "no". I than asked why she treats me so different? I told her if she were to treat her co-workers with the same distain she treated me with she wouldnt have a friend in the world. Back in January I tried to reason with her and tell her at the end of the day the only person thats going to be there for you is me. I told her its not that her kids dont love her or her co-workers dont care they just have kids and their own lives. I went on and said I was the one that was going to be there when she needed someone the most. She wouldnt have to call anyone or feel like she's putting anyone out, it was my responsibility to make sure she's taken care of. The last few days I was there I was pretty pissed but didnt say a thing. Her car had to go back to the dealer for a couple of days and she needed a ride to work. I knew she didnt want to ask me but did anyway. I told her to call or text her ex H, he's the man that should be there for her now. She chose him over me for 3 years theres no reason for her not to go to him now. In the end I broke down and said I'd give her a ride but I was so upset I couldnt stand being in the same car as her and she knew it. She'd try to kiss me when I dropped her off at work and I just turned my head. Thats when I knew I couldnt live with her even as a roommate. She kept the dogs out of spite, she knew how much I loved them. Not sure why she felt the need to get back at me I wasnt the one that cheated and lied

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tug View Post
    Damn dude it sounds like you were dating my ex's evil twin. I agree it is a personality the disorder. The kicker is she would tell everyone else the truth. I asked her if she lies to her best friend at work like she lies to me? Naturally she said "no". I than asked why she treats me so different? I told her if she were to treat her co-workers with the same distain she treated me with she wouldnt have a friend in the world. Back in January I tried to reason with her and tell her at the end of the day the only person thats going to be there for you is me. I told her its not that her kids dont love her or her co-workers dont care they just have kids and their own lives. I went on and said I was the one that was going to be there when she needed someone the most. She wouldnt have to call anyone or feel like she's putting anyone out, it was my responsibility to make sure she's taken care of. The last few days I was there I was pretty pissed but didnt say a thing. Her car had to go back to the dealer for a couple of days and she needed a ride to work. I knew she didnt want to ask me but did anyway. I told her to call or text her ex H, he's the man that should be there for her now. She chose him over me for 3 years theres no reason for her not to go to him now. In the end I broke down and said I'd give her a ride but I was so upset I couldnt stand being in the same car as her and she knew it. She'd try to kiss me when I dropped her off at work and I just turned my head. Thats when I knew I couldnt live with her even as a roommate. She kept the dogs out of spite, she knew how much I loved them. Not sure why she felt the need to get back at me I wasnt the one that cheated and lied
    its scary how similar they sound

    my ex was the type though...whom had 1200 fb friends...everyone knows her and wants to be her friend...shes gorgeous and charming as hell...but she has no real friends....like no real good friends....like i have best friends ive known since kindegarten....this girls best friend is her sister and her brothers gf......she ruins close relationships....with her attitude and ability to find flaws in everyone....her coworkers? these girls would talk on fb and seemed like friends....then id get calls and texts daily about how this girl is doing this or that....how none of them like her....i remember one friend wanted her to help come over and plan her wedding and she hadnt seen this girl in like 2 years.....i could never go that long without seeing my good friends

    when we first started dating we went to a wedding for a girl she helped plan it for....we actually went to a bar and had some drinks and missed the ceremony...we showed up at the reception and the girl came over to us ...my ex goes "oh you looked so pretty....ya we were in the back near the tree"....haha ...talk about a huge missed red flag....or maybe its just us hoping theyd treat us differently

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    Quote Originally Posted by overanxious View Post
    its scary how similar they sound

    my ex was the type though...whom had 1200 fb friends...everyone knows her and wants to be her friend...shes gorgeous and charming as hell...but she has no real friends....like no real good friends....like i have best friends ive known since kindegarten....this girls best friend is her sister and her brothers gf......she ruins close relationships....with her attitude and ability to find flaws in everyone....her coworkers? these girls would talk on fb and seemed like friends....then id get calls and texts daily about how this girl is doing this or that....how none of them like her....i remember one friend wanted her to help come over and plan her wedding and she hadnt seen this girl in like 2 years.....i could never go that long without seeing my good friends
    Holy Chit... your story sounds exactly like mine. There's not a single person that doesnt like her at work but yet she doesnt have any close friends. She has a couple of close friends at work but come quitin' time they dont know her name. When my ex came home I'd have to listen to her complain about everyone she worked with friend or not and whenever we'd go someplace I'd have to sit there and listen to her rag on one woman or another about how one woman wasnt a natural blonde or how another had breast implants. She found a flaw in every woman that crossed her path.

    As for me I dont have any real close friends that I hang out with but the friends I do have I've had for at least 40 years These guys even after all these years still know me just as well I know them. We could go for months without talking but when we did talk we could start up right where we left off.

    My ex had a jacked up childhood, she started getting molested when she was 6 and it didnt stop till she was 12 by multiple "step fathers" and her mom knew about it and allowed it. One of her step fathers was sent to prison because he molested my ex when she was a child. She had 3 kids by 3 different guys and one abortion by yet another guy. Part of me kept thinking she was the way she was because of her childhood but who treats everyone they come in contact with (including a perfect stranger) with so much kindness and generosity and their partner like dirt under her feet. She's ****ed around every guy she's been with, I wasnt the only one. I dont think she's ever been in a relationship that she hasnt cheated, it's sad she cant be honest to someone who depends on her being so honest but like I said she's someone else's problem now not mine.
    Last edited by Tug; 02-11-13 at 02:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overanxious View Post
    its scary how similar they sound

    my ex was the type though...whom had 1200 fb friends...everyone knows her and wants to be her friend...shes gorgeous and charming as hell...but she has no real friends....like no real good friends....like i have best friends ive known since kindegarten....this girls best friend is her sister and her brothers gf......she ruins close relationships....with her attitude and ability to find flaws in everyone....her coworkers? these girls would talk on fb and seemed like friends....then id get calls and texts daily about how this girl is doing this or that....how none of them like her....i remember one friend wanted her to help come over and plan her wedding and she hadnt seen this girl in like 2 years.....i could never go that long without seeing my good friends
    Holy Chit... your story sounds exactly like mine. There's not a single person that doesnt like her at work but yet she doesnt have any close friends other than her two snake in the grass daughters of her's. She has a couple of close friends at work but come quitin' time. When my ex came home I'd have to listen to her complain about everyone she worked with friend or not and whenever we'd go someplace I'd have to sit there and listen to her rag on one woman or another about how one woman wasnt a natural blonde or how another had breast implants. She found a flaw in every woman that crossed her path.

    As for me I dont have any real close friends that I'd hang out with but the friends I do have I've had for at least 40 years These guys even after all these years know still know me just as well I know them. We could go for months without talking but when we did talk we could start up right where we left off.

    My ex had a jacked up childhood, she started getting molested when she was 6 and it didnt stop till she was 12 by multiple "step fathers" and her mom knew about it and allowed it. One of her step fathers was sent to prison because he molested my ex when she was a child. She had 3 kids by 3 different guys and one abortion by yet another guy. Part of me kept thinking she was the way she was because of her childhood but who treats everyone they come in contact with (including a perfect stranger) with so much kindness and generosity and their partner like dirt under her feet. She's ****ed around every guy she's been with, I wasnt the only one. I dont think she's ever been in a relationship that she hasnt cheated, it's sad she cant be honest to someone who depends on her being so honest but like I said she's someone else's problem now not mine.

    Read this....

    In the pages of The Sociopath Next Door, you will realize that your ex was not just misunderstood. He’s a sociopath. And your boss, teacher, and colleague? They may be sociopaths too.

    We are accustomed to think of sociopaths as violent criminals, but in The Sociopath Next Door, Harvard psychologist Martha Stout reveals that a shocking 4 percent of ordinary people—one in twenty-five—has an often undetected mental disorder, the chief symptom of which is that that person possesses no conscience. He or she has no ability whatsoever to feel shame, guilt, or remorse. One in twenty-five everyday Americans, therefore, is secretly a sociopath. They could be your colleague, your neighbor, even family. And they can do literally anything at all and feel absolutely no guilt.

    How do we recognize the remorseless? One of their chief characteristics is a kind of glow or charisma that makes sociopaths more charming or interesting than the other people around them. They’re more spontaneous, more intense, more complex, or even sexier than everyone else, making them tricky to identify and leaving us easily seduced. Fundamentally, sociopaths are different because they cannot love. Sociopaths learn early on to show sham emotion, but underneath they are indifferent to others’ suffering. They live to dominate and thrill to win.

    Sound familiar?

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    its all to real and familiar .....its funny how you talk about that bad childhood stuff...this girls uncle was married to be my best friends mother....he is the same way....well she was helping me get through this stuff as shes been through the same stuff with this guy....she revealed to me and told me i was the only other person who knows this now that he claimed to have been molested by a guy as a child....something he just revealed to her after theyve been together for 20 plus years....sometimes i wonder if he made that up....and i wonder if something happened to this girl(they are from maine and theres alot of ****ed up stuff that happens up there)....this girl and her uncle are exactly the same person...

    i can remember going out to eat and across from me behind me would be two girls and one guy at another table...she liked to come sit on the same side as me sometimes....she came over and it was "oh now i see why you wanted to sit on that side"....."if that girl looks over at you one more time im gonna beat the shit out of her".....if we went to a place where the waitress was reasonably attractive "oh thats why you wanted to come here" or "oh wow thats a nice tip"......a married girl with two kids whom i went to middle school friend requested me "ohhh whos that....ha she just happens to be attractive"...every girl i was ever photographed with prior to us "oh did u sleep with her...what did you do with her"....

    its all crazy shit...i pray it wasnt just me....i pray someone else goes through the same shit and behavior

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    It is sad what some people will do to someone in a relationship. i hope you get over it soon and get back on your feet, its sounds to me like she wasn't worth the trouble in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overanxious View Post
    i can remember going out to eat and across from me behind me would be two girls and one guy at another table...she liked to come sit on the same side as me sometimes....she came over and it was "oh now i see why you wanted to sit on that side"....."if that girl looks over at you one more time im gonna beat the shit out of her".....if we went to a place where the waitress was reasonably attractive "oh thats why you wanted to come here" or "oh wow thats a nice tip"......a married girl with two kids whom i went to middle school friend requested me "ohhh whos that....ha she just happens to be attractive"...every girl i was ever photographed with prior to us "oh did u sleep with her...what did you do with her"....

    its all crazy shit...i pray it wasnt just me....i pray someone else goes through the same shit and behavior
    Dude I can guarantee someone else will go through the same shit you did. Like I always said "show me a beautiful woman and I'll show you a guy puttin' up with her shit" lol

    One day we were at Target and I was lifting allot so I was pretty big but lean at the same time. Some girl that works there that neither one of us knew walked up to me while I was checking out put her arm around me and said something to the effect that she was free that night. My ex was just finished checking out at another check stand and saw the whole thing. She came unglued, she told the girl to get her hands off me and was ready to kick some ass. When we walked out I said "can you see what I turn down to be with you?" She said I get asked out too, I said I know you do but when was the last time you saw your ex H get hit on like that? She didnt say a word.

    Quote Originally Posted by FAndrews View Post
    It is sad what some people will do to someone in a relationship. i hope you get over it soon and get back on your feet, its sounds to me like she wasn't worth the trouble in the first place.
    Andrew it is sad, they dont realize that all they have to do is be honest. If they want to flirt than so can we, instead the minute we treat them like their treating us they break up with us and go to the next fool.

    Now that I've posting with everyone on this topic I realize that her not being in my life isnt all that bad. Leaving her saved me a lifetime of worry and constantly wondering where she was at and what she was doing. Nobody needs to live like that so if you were in the same kind of relationship be happy she's gone and consider this experience a lesson learned I know I have
    Last edited by Tug; 02-11-13 at 04:12 PM.

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