Why are non-ghetto black men seen as very unattractive?

[MaidenMinx]

I do understand why women are attracted to ghetto stereotypical black men. These men represent many of the core values of being an attractive man. There are seen as bad boys so that doesn’t need any explanation. They are seen as men who can protect themselves thus being able to protect others. Their culture is seen as hyper masculinity because they display a lot of masculinity beyond the normal amount of masculinity many cultures display.


In the black community it is not very acceptable for a black man to reject the stereotypical ghetto culture. They are seen as self-haters and sellouts. Black women who are ghetto and black women who are non-ghetto desire a ghetto black man. Dating a non-ghetto black is neither desired nor acceptable.


Things don’t get much better outside of the black community. There are three types of white women. There are ones who are not attracted to black men. The second type is looking for a ghetto black man. The third type is looking for a non-ghetto black man. Of the three the first and second types of white women are much more common than the third. So far I’ve only met 2 or 3 white women who are attracted to non-ghetto black men.


Non-ghetto black men are instantly labeled as being nerds and nice guys. They are seen as weak men. That is not always the case. I’ve seen black men who lived interesting non-ghetto lives are labeled as nerds and nice guys. There is plenty of ways acting like a man instead of a nice boy without being ghetto. If a white man acts a certain way that is considered a bad boy, and then a non-ghetto black man acts the same way, he is seen as a weak nice guy. I live in the south. There are some successful black country singers and women find them to be unattractive. Some ghetto blacks make comments that these black country singers don’t want to be black. NBA Hall of Famer Karl Malone is seen as an uncle tom by many blacks for not being ghetto on and off the court. I remember as a little kid watching the Jazz and the Bulls play in the Finals, almost every black person in the room watching the game called Karl Malone an uncle tom. The Uncle Tom comments briefly stopped when the played for the Lakers because he was playing with Kobe and Shaq.

I've also seen punk rock black men seen as unattractive as well and seen as nerds. While a white guy can live the punk rock lifestyle and will be seen as interesting.

It's like black men are almost forced to live a lifestyle in order to have a chance of being attractive.

Please don't mention Will Smith and Jamie Fox. They are celebrities thus they can break the norms because of their social status.

Is it just me or is this spiel a li'l ummm racist....?

Now that I have that question out of the way I have to apologise for quoting the whole post, but I really need to refer back easily.

I'm going to start with your last point. Celebrities do count as they have the choice as to how they behave. Let us compare 2 well known Aussie actors to prove my point. There is Russell Crowe, who is a complete arse wipe and really comes off as a dick, and then lets compare him to say Hugh Jackman. A nicer celebrity you couldn't wish to meet. Very similar backgrounds yet they handle themselves completely differently. You always have a choice in how you present yourself.

EVERY ONE is forced into some sort of lifestyle. Whether it is attractive or not to other people is usually the concern of teenagers.

Punk rockers interesting? Seriously? Johnny Rotten is interesting but is not and has never been attractive. Give me a good looking metal head though... mmmmm.... (oh that's right. I have one. :p )

... Ok I'm over this already. My point is regardless of your race nice guys finish last. Have you never heard that song? Have you never watched Big Bang Theory? This has nothing to do with your colour and all to do with your perception of yourself.

[Franklin]

Sorry but celebrates don't count. The main factor is social status. I bet most people would say George W Bush is an unattractive man, but when he was president a lot of women thought he was sexy. Why was that? His social status. These men also have money.

Being non-ghetto has nothing to do with being a "nice guy". If that was the case the majority of Asian and White men are nice guys. There are white men who aren't ghetto but are seen as bad boys. A non-ghetto black man can still be a bad boy and do it like a white man would act.

The point is you don't have to be ghetto to be a bad boy.

[DannyH]

As I said before do you even know what ghetto is?
Ghetto means poor. If your talking about guys who dress Urban(hip hop gansta street whatever)..... you might make a little sense.

But I can break it down for you dressing that style is seen as more attractive because guess staying in style is expensive. Seriously look at all the name brands for urban where and how the logos are displayed. Then you add some jewelery to it... It shows you have some money or at least trying to fake it. It is also easier to figure out how much money you make the say somebody wearing a suit. (seriously, you can take a decent suit and have it fitting your gonna look good but trying to price that suit is gonna be a pita). Each logo though on urban wear though is like your wearing a price tag.

Being ghetto though actually look up the word. It means poor.

and Minx your right its downright racist.

[Incognito]

Well I don't see where Franklin is asserting that any race is more superior, nor do I see where he is discriminating against a particular race either. Not racism. It seems that many people think that if race is mentioned at all and negativity at the same time that it is racism. Not so. His post/argument can be applied across the board, but he is obviously posted because of personal observation or personal experience.

Also the meanings of words and terms changes over time. 'Gay' used to mean [happy], and 'bitch' was only used to refer to a female dog. 'Ghetto' may still mean 'poor' on paper, but the majority of people use that word to refer to an ignorant, aggressive subculture that is defined by its lack of class and preoccupation with status and material possessions.

[vashti]

I bet most people would say George W Bush is an unattractive man, but when he was president a lot of women thought he was sexy.

No they didn't! I never met ANYONE who thought Bush was sexy!

Anyway, the only reason I mentioned a celebrity is because you wouldn't know anyone I mentioned in real life, but actually, I know a few sexy black men from work, and they definitely aren't ghetto. One is a doctor, one is a nurse, and one works in the kitchen.

[tremolo]

If we really want to get technical about the word, it's a noun, not an adjective. It denotes a place where minorities live. It doesn't necessarily refer to slums.

But because, as Incognito pointed out, words change and evolve, it has come to embody a variety of things - and for me, the word 'ghetto' denotes not just a set of living conditions, but an entire lifestyle.

I don't think it's racist at all.

[doppelgaenger]

Maybe you're just trying to hard and it's obvious that you're not being yourself.

[MaidenMinx]

"I've also seen punk rock black men seen as unattractive as well and seen as nerds. While a white guy can live the punk rock lifestyle and will be seen as interesting."
This essentially is why I found the spiel to be racist, as well as incorrect. Then again, living in Aus, I have seen very few punk rock black men so can't really determine if there is much truth to it.

The other reason I found the whole spiel racist is he speaks as if everything he is describing ONLY happens to black men. Not true. I don't see white nerds full of confidence or getting lots of women.

Why I called him racist is nearly everytime he said black man it was unnecessary.

[Jmvboy]

Im a guy and will reply to this thread being that this is the scenario i am in. I completely agree and I hate the fact that women don't see us 'non ghetto' guys as attractive.

[DannyH]

"Why I called him racist is nearly every time he said black man it was unnecessary. " That. He claims that only black people are pushed in to stereotypes when it's everybody is. People get in trouble at PC jobs for talking that way. Don't gotta all out hate for it to be racist. Discrimination plays its part as well

"Also the meanings of words and terms changes over time. 'Gay' used to mean [happy], and 'bitch' was only used to refer to a female dog. 'Ghetto' may still mean 'poor' on paper, but the majority of people use that word to refer to an ignorant, aggressive subculture that is defined by its lack of class and preoccupation with status and material possessions." It will still always have the pretext of being poor. I mean he said don't use celebs because of the whole status thing. So that kinda blows the whole preoccupation with status part out of the water.

Using that logic I guess it's alright to go and call women bitches because that what it "means" now I guess it's ok to call homosexual fags now because that's what it means now. Sure you could but I highly doubt you would like some of the reactions you would get. Go to the some poor metro area and tell 10 people to their face they are ghetto ones who dress in the urban style. I bet you won't like the reaction.

Actually look at his first post carefully he pretty much insulted his whole race by stereotyping, Then insulted women then targeted white women. Seriously the whole tone is just screams i am better then those people why aren't women flocking to me.

[Franklin]

"I've also seen punk rock black men seen as unattractive as well and seen as nerds. While a white guy can live the punk rock lifestyle and will be seen as interesting."
This essentially is why I found the spiel to be racist, as well as incorrect. Then again, living in Aus, I have seen very few punk rock black men so can't really determine if there is much truth to it.

The other reason I found the whole spiel racist is he speaks as if everything he is describing ONLY happens to black men. Not true. I don't see white nerds full of confidence or getting lots of women.

Why I called him racist is nearly everytime he said black man it was unnecessary.

I am not racist. The ghetto culture shown to be one the young African American culture. This topic is about non-ghetto black men and ghetto black men. I don't see how it is a problem to say black man.

"Why I called him racist is nearly every time he said black man it was unnecessary. " That. He claims that only black people are pushed in to stereotypes when it's everybody is. People get in trouble at PC jobs for talking that way. Don't gotta all out hate for it to be racist. Discrimination plays its part as well

"Also the meanings of words and terms changes over time. 'Gay' used to mean [happy], and 'bitch' was only used to refer to a female dog. 'Ghetto' may still mean 'poor' on paper, but the majority of people use that word to refer to an ignorant, aggressive subculture that is defined by its lack of class and preoccupation with status and material possessions." It will still always have the pretext of being poor. I mean he said don't use celebs because of the whole status thing. So that kinda blows the whole preoccupation with status part out of the water.

Using that logic I guess it's alright to go and call women bitches because that what it "means" now I guess it's ok to call homosexual fags now because that's what it means now. Sure you could but I highly doubt you would like some of the reactions you would get. Go to the some poor metro area and tell 10 people to their face they are ghetto ones who dress in the urban style. I bet you won't like the reaction.

Actually look at his first post carefully he pretty much insulted his whole race by stereotyping, Then insulted women then targeted white women. Seriously the whole tone is just screams i am better then those people why aren't women flocking to me.

I am sorry if I sounded rude. I don't think I am better than anyone. I don't know how you came up with that opinion. What did I say make you think that?

My first post was to describe how black society is. I have spoken to many ghetto and non-ghetto blacks about this. I have not met a single black person who disagrees with my opinion and view.

How did I insult women and then white women? There have been women who posted in this topic. None of them stated they felt attacked.

No they didn't! I never met ANYONE who thought Bush was sexy!

Anyway, the only reason I mentioned a celebrity is because you wouldn't know anyone I mentioned in real life, but actually, I know a few sexy black men from work, and they definitely aren't ghetto. One is a doctor, one is a nurse, and one works in the kitchen.

Social status is a huge part in attraction. There were women who thought Bush was sexy because he was the president. Men with high social status are seen as more attractive because their money, resources, and maybe looks if they got that.

[tremolo]

It seems silly to me that anyone would think Franklin is being racist. I assume he is speaking as someone within the black community, so for him to link the concept of 'ghetto' with blacks is pretty natural. And anyway, I would think most Americans would automatically think either 'black' or 'latino' when they hear the word ghetto, because blacks and latinos are the predominant minorities, and ghettos are places where minorities live.

[DannyH]

It's not a problem to say black man at all. Dumping all black man in to one stereotype though is retarded. The internet is worldwide and black men are around the world. Seriously saying African American cause you just added American to it would of made a world of difference because that would give you an area to base the culture off of. Just because something applies to some people in America doesn't mean it applies to everybody else. Don't get me wrong there are truth behind your words just gotta watch how you say things when talking to people outside of your area. Seriously come up to my old neighborhood and start calling people ghetto your gonna get shot. It's really not like an uber insult where women would get offended esp if you talk about it in the area its happening in. Since you didn't localize it though claiming all women are more likly to be attracted is an insult to some women. The white women thing what about women who are attracted to black guys who are just attractive? That's how my cousins fell their black husbands. I showed them this post and they were pissed to be labeled the way you made it. Their husbands laughed at it and pretty much called the whole post foolish. Then again all of us are not from the south. Comedians can get away with stereotypes like these because they are doing in a joking manner. Random joe trying to get advice not so much. No he isn't racist his post just had a subtle racist tone to it because of the stereotyping. Just because your not burning crosses on someones lawn doesn't automatically make you not a racist. Subtle forms of it are just as bad and far more common.


You guys didn't catch how I am with labeling stuff already in other posts

[IndiReloaded]

I'm a nerdy black dude, and white girls are the easiest for me to knock down.

While not ghetto at all, I was an intermediate level drug trafficker at one point, but now I'm a computer programmer and I've found that white women are much more open and accepting of my past.

Not all of them. Slime.

[Franklin]

It's not a problem to say black man at all. Dumping all black man in to one stereotype though is retarded. The internet is worldwide and black men are around the world. Seriously saying African American cause you just added American to it would of made a world of difference because that would give you an area to base the culture off of. Just because something applies to some people in America doesn't mean it applies to everybody else. Don't get me wrong there are truth behind your words just gotta watch how you say things when talking to people outside of your area. Seriously come up to my old neighborhood and start calling people ghetto your gonna get shot. It's really not like an uber insult where women would get offended esp if you talk about it in the area its happening in. Since you didn't localize it though claiming all women are more likly to be attracted is an insult to some women. The white women thing what about women who are attracted to black guys who are just attractive? That's how my cousins fell their black husbands. I showed them this post and they were pissed to be labeled the way you made it. Their husbands laughed at it and pretty much called the whole post foolish. Then again all of us are not from the south. Comedians can get away with stereotypes like these because they are doing in a joking manner. Random joe trying to get advice not so much. No he isn't racist his post just had a subtle racist tone to it because of the stereotyping. Just because your not burning crosses on someones lawn doesn't automatically make you not a racist. Subtle forms of it are just as bad and far more common.


You guys didn't catch how I am with labeling stuff already in other posts

I should had been more clear. I am talking about America. I am not talking about black men from all over the world. I also acknowledge that not all black men are ghetto, and stated how they are seen as in the black community in America.

I don't see how that is insulting women. That is no different than say many women like men with muscles. That's isn't insulting.