Out of place?

[vashti]

You should read a book I am reading now Tone. It is called Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. The premise is that man is the enemy of the earth. Is it a philosophical book, easy to read. Profoundly depressing stuff, but well reasoned and well written, if quirky.

[url]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553375407/103-3093083-0987818?v=glance&n=283155[/url]

[Junsui]

Then if man is the enemey of the earth, what is so wrong with the death penalty?


I'm kidding!

[vashti]

I don't know; I'm only half-way through!

Anyway, I should say that this is not normally a book I would have chosen to read, but we are doing it with my book club...

[Junsui]

That's what is so great about book clubs, you get to be introduced to books and authors you never would have thought to read!

[Late_vamp]

survival of the strongest ... wich in our case is the brain , but sometimes i just think its pure luck we got here , look at some of the people around you . i cannot believe they havent died in a stupid accident yet or how they were raised .

like in jackass ... i cant believe some ppl would actually act worst than retards themselves .

[Mish]

Tone, I have something for you that will put you at ease once and for all.

Remember the time when Dinosaurs became extinct? At that time 95% of all life on earth was destroyed and our planet was almost reduced to a wasteland.

So whenever you feel the urge of blaming human race for this and that, remember this. Our planet has seen damage done to it on such a wide scale that no human EVER even after a million nuclear wars and EVEN after long Nuclear Winters could ever hope to replicate. Our planet has survived through worse than just some tiny human race population and it will survive and over live us a million times fold. What can be wiped out by man, had already been wiped out many times before and was regrown and repopulated. Any damage that we do will primarily affect us (humans) and everything that has existed on earth for millions of years will survive a tiny human race interference.

Have you ever heard of Albert Bierstadt? a 19th century US realist painter? Look up some of his paintings. Not only they are beautiful masterpieces, but they also show the grand design of nature and almost always a tiny small dot for a man.

[Tone]

It doesn't matter.

No really - please do give me some answers. I WANT someone to be able to answer this question for me cause I cannot answer it, myself.

What good have we done that isn't a direct result of our previous doing? (cleaning up our own mess) Can someone please answer that for me?

You should read a book I am reading now Tone. It is called Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. The premise is that man is the enemy of the earth. Is it a philosophical book, easy to read. Profoundly depressing stuff, but well reasoned and well written, if quirky.

[url]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/05...glance&n=283155[/url]

Hmm interesting, shh! - if I ever get into reading I will check that one out. It reminds me of Agent Smith from the Matrix - "It came to me when I tried to classify your species, and I realised that humans are not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment; but you humans do not. Instead you multiply, and multiply, until every resource is consumed. The only way for you to survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern... a virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer on this planet, you are a plague.." - thanks again for the insight though.

Tone, I have something for you that will put you at ease once and for all.

Remember the time when Dinosaurs became extinct? At that time 95% of all life on earth was destroyed and our planet was almost reduced to a wasteland.

So whenever you feel the urge of blaming human race for this and that, remember this. Our planet has seen damage done to it on such a wide scale that no human EVER even after a million nuclear wars and EVEN after long Nuclear Winters could ever hope to replicate. Our planet has survived through worse than just some tiny human race population and it will survive and over live us a million times fold. What can be wiped out by man, had already been wiped out many times before and was regrown and repopulated. Any damage that we do will primarily affect us (humans) and everything that has existed on earth for millions of years will survive a tiny human race interference.

Have you ever heard of Albert Bierstadt? a 19th century US realist painter? Look up some of his paintings. Not only they are beautiful masterpieces, but they also show the grand design of nature and almost always a tiny small dot for a man.

Mish - I wish that could put me at ease once and for all - but it does quite the opposite. What happened to the dinosaurs was beyond their control. Whereas WE humans are the ones who do the destruction. Who is to say a higher power will be as forgiving to to us as they were to the dinosaurs to our planet? The dinosaurs as well as other life (are you sure it was 95% of all life on earth was wiped out??) were extinct, yet life seemed to 'restart' afterwards. Would the planet be givin the same chance if/when humans were to go extinct? Was the real reason dinosaurs went extinct because they did NOT advance, as we did? Is this whole world and life as we know it some big experiment for something beyond our grasp? If we as humans passed the test the dinosaurs failed (advancement) - will we be punished for all the damage and destruction we exhibit?

Never heard of that guy, if I get some time today I'll try to look up his paintings on the internet.

[Junsui]

Well, I don't think any of us can answer what our purpose on this planet is. Does it really matter? We will all die anyways.

[Tone]

Hmm interesting. But I wasn't really meaning to get into a "what is our purpose" debate, even though it might sound like it. Cause I agree we'll never know, at least not while we're alive. Unless there is no answer, and it's just personal for every person.

Or could our purpose be TO destroy the planet?? We may never know.

I wanted answered what good have we, as a species, done that isn't a direct result of our own previous doing? (cleaning up our own mess)

[vashti]

I would say there is nothing we have done to improve the world that hasn't been motivated by a need to correct some sort of destruction we have caused, and if there is, I can't think of it. We are people. We consume until there becomes a need to correct our over-consumption.

I'm telling you, Tone, read that book I suggested. I really think you will find it interesting.

[Junsui]

I can't imagine we haven't done anything. Are there not other natural causes for animals dying that we haven't worked on curing? I wouldn't say that just because we are human we consume until there is nothing. Did Indians do that? I don't know, I'm actually asking because I haven't read enough about any of this to have a discussion on it.

[vashti]

I don't think Indians had a large enough population that over consumption became a big problem, but yes, they too would consume until there was nothing left to take, and then move on.

[Junsui]

I thought they gave back somehow, I don't know. Isn't that how other animals work too though? Consume until there is nothing left. Especially if they become over-populated in a certain area.

[Tone]

I can't imagine we haven't done anything.

Exactly what I thought at first but then the more I tried to think of it the more blank I became. That's why I'm inviting someone to answer that for us.

shh! I'll have to go to the library sometime and see about that book.. you're makin me interested in it.

[Junsui]

Well, I can't think of anything because I haven't studied anything about it. So, I wouldn't know of any situations. Yes, we use resources, but so do animals. Our population has become so vast so we are taking up more, the same thing if like bears started over-populating a certain area, they would use up all of their resources. I think if any species becomes too over-populated it's like a "virus" or whatever to the earth.