Religion

[vashti]

Well, some religions are pluralistic, and these issues are less of a problem. But really, if you genuinely believe your beloved is going to Hell, what would you do? You would try to save them, of course. Postmodern beliefs of perspective don't apply to Christianity.

[LoveTwist]

Well, some religions are pluralistic, and these issues are less of a problem. But really, if you genuinely believe your beloved is going to Hell, what would you do? You would try to save them, of course. Postmodern beliefs of perspective don't apply to Christianity.

What do you mean by postmodern beliefs of perspective?
I really don't get how people who have strongly opposing views can have a serious relationship without it becoming an issue. Because if your SO was very religious and you weren't, but they kept insisting that you're going to hell, trying to convert you, and get you to go to church... surely that would annoy the hell out of you? Or visa versa or your partner was an atheist insistig that God didn't exist when you're religious. Just don't think I could go out with someone who actually had beliefs and views that drastically different from my own.

I just laugh at all the controversy that religion causes.
Someone always has to be right & the other person always has to be wrong.
As if there aren't any other colors in the world.
As if we can't just respect one another for our differences.

Yeah, I totally agree. My friend is pretty religious and she twisted my ear to go to church with her one time. I couldn't believe some of the stuff they were preaching about.
Maybe it was just a hard-core church or something, but they were actually preaching that tolerating other religious is a bad thing. Seriously!

First the guy asked us all - "What you would imagine hell on Earth to be?"
Then he went through all the things you might think of, like the AIDs crisis in Africa, or muggings, or shootings… etc…
Then he said - "This may surprise you, but Jesus described hell as a city where different religions are practiced side by side and tolerated."

I was like what the hell??? Didn't dare say anything though, because I was completely surrounded. Guess it was probably one of the more hard core sermons, but still...

However, I know some seriously religious people do think like that. That everyone who believes something other than what they know to be "true" or worships "false gods" are committing a sin. Like its dishonouring Jesus' or God's name if you let people worship a "false God" beside you. Guess that's one reason so many Christians do missionary work to try and convert people and why you get Jehovah’s witnesses knocking on your door. Its kinda ironic that some hard core religious people find it hard to tolerate/ accept other beliefs, yet they still expect their beliefs to be tolerated.

[vashti]

What do you mean by postmodern beliefs of perspective?

You've never heard of postmodernism? Here are exceprts from wiki. You will probably have a better understanding when you go to university, though.

"If used in other contexts, it is a concept without a universally accepted, short and simple definition; in a variety of contexts it is used to describe social conditions, movements in the arts, economic and social conditions and scholarship in reaction to modernism, not "post" in the purely temporal sense of "after". Largely influenced by the disillusionment of the First World War, postmodernism's many manifestations tend to refer to a cultural, intellectual, or artistic state lacking a clear central hierarchy or organizing principle and embodying extreme complexity, contradiction, ambiguity, diversity, and interconnectedness or interreferentiality."

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism[/url]

[Gribble]

Personally, I believe in meta-atheism. Anyone exposed to western civilization, science, technology, etc., cannot possibly believe in gods, goddesses, or flying spaghetti monsters. Many of them just don't realize it because they are self-deceived. Somewhere deep, deep down they know that to take the Bible or any other religious text seriously is beyond absurd.

Most of the people I've met who claim to be religious aren't so bad. Maybe it's the area I live in, I dunno, but most Christians go around sleeping out of wedlock. They don't go to Church. They don't pray. Hell, they probably don't even know any prayers. I've dated many a Christian chick without any trouble. But I also avoid discussing religion like the plague with them, so that could be part of it.

[Gigabitch]

[Junket]

I don't even know how to respond to that.

[Gigabitch]

I don't even know how to respond to that.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster[/URL]

[Glyph]

Personally, I believe in meta-atheism. Anyone exposed to western civilization, science, technology, etc., cannot possibly believe in gods, goddesses, or flying spaghetti monsters. Many of them just don't realize it because they are self-deceived. Somewhere deep, deep down they know that to take the Bible or any other religious text seriously is beyond absurd.

Most of the people I've met who claim to be religious aren't so bad. Maybe it's the area I live in, I dunno, but most Christians go around sleeping out of wedlock. They don't go to Church. They don't pray. Hell, they probably don't even know any prayers. I've dated many a Christian chick without any trouble. But I also avoid discussing religion like the plague with them, so that could be part of it.

But that's just the thing - you're supposed to live a "Christ-like" existence. You're supposed to pray. Whether or not you have to go to church is up for debate, but they're at least expected to congregate with other Christians ("wherever two or more are gathered in my name, there too shall I be", blah blah). I hate to throw out "no true Scotsman", but according to the very religious texts of Judeo-Christian faith, they are not Christians. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but why they'd give themselves that label is beyond me. I mean, praying is supposed to be almost like getting on the horn with your boss and communicating. If you don't seek the guidance or influence of the teacher whose doctrine you claim to espouse . . . why claim it? It makes no sense to me.

That's what has always gotten me. When you read through the Bible and get an idea of how Christians, by practise, are technically SUPPOSED to conduct themselves? It's really not far removed from the weirdo zealots I roll my eyes at whenever they claim they'll "pray for me" in that thick Southern evangelistic drawl. I guess it annoys me to hear, when I voice disdain for Christians and Christianity, of people who "don't fit the mold", or how people "know some Christians who are REALLY cool, they don't act like that."

Then why? Why be a decent human being, yet still lend your obviously thinking brain over to something unbelievably as idiotic as Christianity? That's one way in which I almost agree with the Bible's depiction of God: be Christian as the Bible says you're truly supposed to be, or don't. If you're able to think critically for yourself, then actually DO it and let go of religion's crutch, as you should have no need for it.

I mean, I really look at that the same as I'd look at a person who claimed to be Buddhist, yet eats meat. "Oh, yeah, I'm a Buddhist in all ways except non-aggression." THEN YOU'RE NOT A BUDDHIST! You don't follow the tenets, so why affiliate yourself if you can't accept the whole thing as is?

[Gribble]

Reform. Religion is on its way out. People are becoming more and more secular. It just doesn't happen overnight. So you have people who claim to be Christians but live like atheists. They're still decent folk, even if they are hypocrites.

[vashti]

To answer your question Glyph, I think for a large percentage of people, it is easier to assimilate to the majority than it is to out yourself as different. Besides, to admit you maybe really aren't a Christian might require one to rethink celebrating traditionally Christian holidays (Christmas, Easter), and most people are unwilling to do that.

[vashti]

Reform. Religion is on its way out. People are becoming more and more secular.

This is really not true of where I live. When I think of how religion has evolved since I was a kid, I am horrified. People used to have "quiet faith". No one ever talked openly about religion. Now they are all up in your face with it and trying to convert you.

I think the pendulum is swinging TOWARDS religion, not against.

[Glyph]

I think that may just be backlash, Vash. There IS a readily apparent shift towards secularism, so the ones who WERE quiet yet zealous are now being vocal idiots. It wasn't that long ago that abortion was "safely" outlawed and being gay was a secret, scary thing no one talked about.

Now that people are wanting to be who they are, proudly, and make decisions for their lives outside of remaining barefoot and pregnant, you're still going to have nutcases to lash out about it.

I just really wish the ones who are "cool", the ones who actually DO think and reason and aren't prejudiced or hateful would stop lending fuel by recognising themselves as Christians. If you can't do anything to stem the insanity, at LEAST thin their numbers by removing yourself from their camp.

[vashti]

I hope things are different everywhere wlse. I went to a choral concert put on by the public school district where I live a couple of weeks ago. There were 29 songs sung all together, and 19 of them were Jesus songs. It was a freakin' nightmare.

Where do you live, Glyph?

[Gigabitch]

I just really wish the ones who are "cool", the ones who actually DO think and reason and aren't prejudiced or hateful would stop lending fuel by recognising themselves as Christians. If you can't do anything to stem the insanity, at LEAST thin their numbers by removing yourself from their camp.

Actually, I appreciate the sane ones standing up and saying, "We're not all psychotic zealots! Some of us can reconcile evolution with intelligent design. Some of us recognize Jesus as a fundamentally decent person and an example to follow rather than a get out of jail free card, and don't take every word in that inscrutable tome to be the word of God."

I'm not a big Christian, but I appreciate the good ones trying to stake their own claim on it.

[Gribble]

A professor of mine lectured in detail on this very subject. He referred to religion as a myth, although his definition of myth wasn't necessarily derogatory. Anything people believe in, according to him, is a myth, be it religion or science. I can't recall the terms he used, but basically someone comes along and creates a myth. Jesus, for example. People propagate the myth. Christians. Then reformers step in and start to change the myth. Secularists. In response purists step up and try to preserve the myth. So yeah, I think it's backlash.

Look at Christmas. I don't ever remember people bickering and fighting over it. These days you have so-called Christians claiming that their holiday is being hijacked by us frothing heathens (even though Christmas is a pagan holiday hijacked by Christians...) The fighting can get pretty nasty. But it's a new occurrence, or perhaps the fighting's always been there, it's just become more intense. Christians are scrambling to save a sinking ship. They're desperate and they're getting vocal.