Supreme court to hear death sentence inhumane

[DoesntMatter]

I also noted something interesting ... about 95% of people I have talked to who are against stem cell research and the like because it's 'playing God' are also for the death penalty, which is in essance playing God. Not referring to the OP here as it hasn't been mentioned by the hypocricy in general is amazing.

Yeah it's a lot like the seeming hypocrisy in people who are against abortion but support the death penalty. At a first glance it seems like outrageous hypocrisy, but it really isn't. The problem is that people aren't specific enough in describing the stance of these people. They aren't "pro-life" but "pro-innocent life".

See, a baby/fetus that is aborted has not done anything wrong to warrant it's death. A person who has committed some horrible crime is not on equal footing as an unborn person. The problem is that many people are too unwilling to acknowledge this disparity. It really is important, but people pointing out the "hypocrisy" typically don't directly make counter-points to this fact.

[Illusional]

when you think about it, is death really that bad?? you are set free to meet your creator, but what am i talking about.. i don't believe that there is a god, but that's another story.

raverboy

[squirrley]

I wont regret or take back anything Ive said thus far. I wont apologize for my beliefs either. My A on term paper was because of my strong belief and the facts I submitted in it.

Its not right to put down people because of their beliefs and Ive never mentioned anything about abortion or stem cell research. I have my own beliefs and wont go there its another subject altogether.

Yes it does cost more to sentence someone to death. But in my opinion I dont want my tax money to be used to let someone of that nature "play" in prison. Other countries have other means of sentencing their criminals and other countries do have the eye for an eye standard. A thief gets his hands cut off, etc.

And of all those I have conversations with regarding this matter from 24-75, the MAJORITY of those people believe in the death penalty. There are a few who believe its socially wrong, but I certainly dont try to convince them theyre wrong. Everyone has their own opinion. I just happen to be very mindful about it. And have strong feelings about it.

Damn how long ago did death sentencing start?? OMG , the townspeople would stone the person to death, there were hangings in the town square. Firing squads, etc. Electrocutions. THOSE were horrible ways of putting someone to death. Today, lethal injection is less severe.

I still dont believe and will never believe you can rehabilitate those on death row. They may come to know God because they have the time. They may actually feel some remorse because its their turn now. But a crime of that nature to be sentenced to death...

I dont beleive anyone is right or wrong in their belief on this one. I wanted to see who thought what and where people stood because we have a wide range of people on here and age bracket. I find it VERY interesting that some people on here are totally against while those in person almost 99% believe in it.

[squirrley]

[url]http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/DP.html[/url]

[vashti]

Squirrley writes: I find it VERY interesting that some people on here are totally against while those in person almost 99% believe in it.


Maybe it's a regional thing. The only person I know who favors the death penalty is my husband. Anyway, the national statistics show that around 64% of people favor it, which is down quite a lot from the 1990s.

[Tiay]

I wont regret or take back anything Ive said thus far. I wont apologize for my beliefs either. My A on term paper was because of my strong belief and the facts I submitted in it.

an A on a paper means you sourced various information and combined it to say something, with good grammar and spelling and a nice bibliography and so on. Believe me, you don't get A's simply for having a strong belief or facts. It's great that you got an A, but it does not prove anything and is completely irrelevant to this debate, beyond showing that you have thought about the issue.

Its not right to put down people because of their beliefs and Ive never mentioned anything about abortion or stem cell research. I have my own beliefs and wont go there its another subject altogether.

Yes, you have the right to believe whatever the heck you want. But sometimes, people debate their beliefs. Sometimes, they decide that a belief previously held is wrong when seen from another point of view. Burden of truth. Crossfire of debate. This is how theories are tested, and those that survive are stronger for it. If your reaction to your belief being questioned is holding your hands over your ears and yelling "well I got an A, and I have the right to believe whatever I want!", then how much proof do you actually have for your belief, if you can't defend it in a debate?

And also, Missleepy *specifically* said that the stem cell stuff wasn't relating to you.

Yes it does cost more to sentence someone to death. But in my opinion I dont want my tax money to be used to let someone of that nature "play" in prison. Other countries have other means of sentencing their criminals and other countries do have the eye for an eye standard. A thief gets his hands cut off, etc.

lol, a thief gets their hand cut off? what countries are these, exactly? Ah, generally in countires where islamic extremists exercise power... letsseee.. botswana.. burundi, the Rep. of Congo, Ethiopia, Guinea, Libya, Nigeria, Sudan, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Afghanistan.. Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, North Korea, Kuwait, Lebanon, Syria.. to name a few.. what do you reckon if I look up these countries I'll also find high violent crime rates, upheaval, corrupt governments, lack of human rights, etc? Oh yeah, and somalia. Gosh isn't that the country where the government broke down and there's been a raging civil war..?
Ah, this is retributive justice- a never ending cycle of violence. Do you not see how this is childish, and in fact breeds *new* murderers?

"play" in prison? That's ridiculous. They're not playing. They're bored to death (no pun intended), to the extent that some say that life in prison is actually more cruel than the death penalty. It should not be about vengeance and revenge. that's so moronic and in the end pointless.

And of all those I have conversations with regarding this matter from 24-75, the MAJORITY of those people believe in the death penalty. There are a few who believe its socially wrong, but I certainly dont try to convince them theyre wrong. Everyone has their own opinion. I just happen to be very mindful about it. And have strong feelings about it.

from 24-75? hm? who? anyway, sure, there are people who hold the same opinion as you. again, doesn't prove anything. Discussing is how we hone or opinions to within an inch of their lives. You're simply refusing to put your belief on the line by actually debating it- you said yourself, the people you had conversations with agreed with you anyway, and those that don't agree you don't bother to debate with. You accuse me of not respecting your beliefs, yet the reason I debate it is to see if i'm right or not, to challenge my ability to defend my beliefs when someone steps up and posts something that my beliefs are in direct conflict with.

Damn how long ago did death sentencing start?? OMG , the townspeople would stone the person to death, there were hangings in the town square. Firing squads, etc. Electrocutions. THOSE were horrible ways of putting someone to death. Today, lethal injection is less severe.

I agree, if there's going to be a death sentence, then lethal injection seems (from what little I've heard) to be less horrific than those other methods.

I still dont believe and will never believe you can rehabilitate those on death row. They may come to know God because they have the time. They may actually feel some remorse because its their turn now. But a crime of that nature to be sentenced to death...

You just before admitted that some on death row may not even be guilty. And now they're all evil beyond rescue? How can you be so sure? Is it simply because that makes your belief right, or because you genuinely think that not a single murderer on death row had a causative issue that could've been counselled.. can you read minds? You can't possibly know. Due to the sheer numbers it's likely there's at least one such case.

edit: oh, and there you go again, "I don't believe and will never believe.."
oh? so even if someone presented irrefutable evidence and ideas to you that show that you CAN rehab certain criminals.. you would still not let go of your dear belief? I find that kinda disturbing.

I dont beleive anyone is right or wrong in their belief on this one.

and yet, the law should be based on your belief? And yet, you can post your belief and i'm "attacking" you by debating it? There is a right or wrong somewhere here, because we can't both be right.

I wanted to see who thought what and where people stood because we have a wide range of people on here and age bracket. I find it VERY interesting that some people on here are totally against while those in person almost 99% believe in it.

maybe it's the area you live in, or the type of people you talk to? No sampling of the population is representative of the average.

[squirrley]

i think you guys are missing my point altogether. I dont believe anyone is wrong in their own beliefs in of the controversies that have been long debated. To each their own. I do find it attacking when I bring up something that I find strongly about.

I posted a website showing stats on all issues that have been brought up thus far. Especially concerning the issue of people wrongfully put to death. Its quite long, but the stats on all are there.

Its totally irrelevant my term paper, I was just stating that my paper had an A because of what I presented. The paper had to be on something controversial. I personally didnt prove anything in it. It was just a comment.

At the time of that paper, I had reports of death sentencing manners in other countries AT THAT TIME, I NEVER said it was being practiced today. Wow. Although Im sure it is in some places.

Read the website, all those questions that have been brought up are in there. The racial issue, the wrongful deaths, the cost vs life, etc. Religion. Its actually a damn good report. And Im sure I can find a million other ones just like it, just like I could find those against it. I didnt start the thread to start a debate of fire. But peoples thoughts.

As far as my poll, I never said it was a United States Poll, its the norm here in my area of Sarasota. Southern FL. We have the death penalty in this state and maybe thats why. But many years in MI, even up there so many people believe in it but its not legal up there.

i just found over the last 20 something years that there was a very small percentage of people who opposed it. Im sure it is a regional thing or religion thing, doesnt matter its just been my experience.

Really just read the link I posted. I am open to reading any link anyone puts up.

[Tiay]

I don't get your point. So, to each their own.. unless its something you find strongly about? I'm not following.

yes, you posted a website.. "here tiay, read this GIANT website and convince yourself of the reasons for my opinion, instead of me actually having to pick it apart myself.."

a giant website, btw, that begins by openly bashing "the anti-death penalty movement" as specialising in the abolition of truth, and claiming itself to be the one source of truth regarding the issue.

anyways, overlooking that, I did look at some of the site though I couldn't read all of it right now.

What poll did you mention? I don't remember that..

Well, you live in a state where the majority is in favour of capital punishment. It's likely that the people you meet in your area are going to have that opinion.


on that site, there are a few points laid out in summary at the top. Here are my responses to them:

1. and 2. rarity/frequency of occurence of the death penalty doesn't have much to do with the ethical debate about it.

3. "death penalty opponents state that those who support the death penalty see it as a solution to violent crime." Opponents, hereby, present one of many fabrications. In reality, executions are seen as the appropriate punishment for certain criminals committing specific crimes. So says the U.S. Supreme Court and so say most death penalty supporters"

I find it hilarious that this reason actually manages to contradict itself, so I quoted it in full. Let me rephrase that for them.. it says "opponents wrongly say that the death penalty is seen as a solution to violent crime.. when in fact, executions are seen as an appropriate punishment for.."
ohhh, so it's an appropriate punishment, not a solution to violent crime? Isn't an "appropriate" punishment supposed to be the solution? no? you're just killin' 'em for the heck of it? I don't know what more I can say.

4. "opponents equate execution and murder, then those two acts are morally equivalent."
the examples given here seem to make sense at first.. ie, rape and making love isn't the same thing even though it both involves intercourse. Killing in self defence obviously isn't the same as premeditated murder, even though both involve killing. gosh; well if these things are vastly different, then we can also conclude that the death penalty, a thing that results in a dead human, does not have to be immoral simply because another act that results in a dead human, ie murder, is definitely immoral.
Yes, it's true that context matters, and dead human and dead human could mean two completely different things, morally. However, I could use this argument the other way around, too. Death penalty is immoral, and murder is moral; after all, making love and rape both involve intercourse, but they're obviously not morally equal, hence, I could conclude that murder is ok and the death penalty is wrong. I could use this argument to say anything I want. It's nothing but word play, it holds no water.

oh, and it also says that "some equate the American death penalty with the Nazi holocaust..." and goes on to claim that these (obviously moronic) death penalty opponents are so blind, they see no moral difference between the slaughter of millions of innocent people and the execution of a few horrible criminals.

oh for crying out loud. OF COURSE I can see those SUPER obvious differences! Of course I can see it is not by far the same thing. I will still bring up the holocaust in this debate because it is an extreme case of the wrong person being in charge. And if the death penalty is an accepted practice, there is always the chance that someone racist or stupid will get in charge of it.

Gosh, and I haven't even read much beyond the first few paragraphs.

[squirrley]

Tiay Im NOT trying to argue with you do you not get that? i voice how i feel and you attack that. I see your point, and understand it, but i dont undermine your personally thoughts about it.

I stated i could pull up the anti death penalties supporters. They will have just as much to claim as to WHY. I was simply putting up studies of what was mentioned. We could go back and forth for eons. Thats not the idea for me. I wasnt looking for people to dog others out, just simply what everyone else thought.

Get a grip, this isnt a pissing contest. It obvisously shows that issues of this nature are strongly opinioniated. If you didnt notice that website was PRO. but there were facts in there which i felt were releveant.

Its cool, I certainly dont look down on anyone or think less of anyone because they dont feel the same as I do. I had NO intention of trying to pursuade someone to go to my side. It is what it is. People have strong passions about so many things, and that just happens to be mine.

Lets agree that its ok to disagree on issues. I do see your point in your thoughts against it. But its fine, I still see you as someone with legitimate reasons for your feelings.

[gartlas]

Hey someone after myown heart.I personally agree with you squirrely,we should hang the ****ers.Over here in england wedont have the death penalty its too namby pamby.Its all about being nice to the kiddy fiddlers and 70 year old perverts.Bring back the death penalty.NO re-offenders.As miss hotty will have heard of (not sure about the rest of you )there was these two monsters,Ian something(dont remember his surname) and Moira Hindley.They kidnapped loads of kids and raped and murdered them,sometimes even recorded themselves doing it.If I ruled the country they would have been boiled in a thin acid then slowly hung before having theyre genitals burned in front of them.The assholes got away with a life sentence without parole.They then lived a life in prison being fed and clothed by other peoples taxes.They say the death penalty is inhumane.I say letting those two live after all they ahd done was a thousand times worse.

[squirrley]

those are the cases I refer to. Thats just morally wrong and where is the justice in it?

[gartlas]

Know one sees the truth.Its all that Bullshit about human rights.There was an italian murderer over here and they refused to deport him because it 'breached hs human rights' things have just gone too far.

[vashti]

those are the cases I refer to. Thats just morally wrong and where is the justice in it?

There is no kind of justice that could even the score.

Anyway, I started reading your link, but the article was too long. I stopped at the "no evidence of innocence" because that isn't the way our system works.

I hope this thread gets bumped when I have more time for reading.

[IndiReloaded]

I'm not getting into this except to ask:

How can killing someone be more $$ than housing, clothing, feeding them in prison for years? A bullet & cremation just doesn't cost that much, or am I missing something?

Oh, and since someone will inevitably ask, here's what I think:
[url]http://darwilliams.net/music/tabs/flinty.html[/url]

[vashti]

I'm not getting into this except to ask:

How can killing someone be more $$ than housing, clothing, feeding them in prison for years? A bullet & cremation just doesn't cost that much, or am I missing something?

Oh, and since someone will inevitably ask, here's what I think:
[url]http://darwilliams.net/music/tabs/flinty.html[/url]

The appeals process is outrageously expensive.