Choi's Problem

[Junket]

Why don't you take the next weekend you were supposed to visit her and go see Will instead or something? It's not really her fault your life is sucking right now. Fix this, and then take another look at her.

I live in Oklahoma. They live in Pennsylvania. That's a long trip for a weekend. And an expensive one at that.

Damn, I think you guys need a week of space. Complete space, no contact for a week, to allow the two of you to calm down and think about the problems. Then come back together and discuss the issues. Otherwise you will continue arguing in a negative way.

We usually skip a week to stay at home. This conveniently is the weekend we're not seeing each other.

As far as your 'behavior issue', I think she needs to realize that it is not something that changes instantaneously, and it takes time and work. I think she needs to know that it's a communication issue, something not only you are having trouble with. I hope that you keep pushing to fix it.

Following this. One thing I made note of when she was trying to explain how she was trying to be so nice, how she's always so patient and nice with people who aren't always nice to her...While I was stuck in my mind trying to figure shit out (cold/distant), she was acting content and happy to try to bring me out of it. I didn't realize how much it hurt her until the morning of the 3rd day (the morning I created this thread). Not that I was unaware my behavior was having some kind of effect on her, but seeing her upset spurred me to action.

She rarely shows her angry/sad emotions, so it's difficult for me to know what she's feeling.

You know what I've hated about these arguments, this thread? Is that it sounds like we have these chronic fights and issues and it's nothing at all like that.

Every instance where I become passive aggressive and "cold" is for one: Me withholding becoming aggressive aggressive.

two: In a situation where the other individual is still present when I'd rather be by myself to figure things out.

Examples:

First week I moved to Oklahoma, my brother mocked me, he said something really mean, something he used to say when he used to tease me when I was a kid. Completely unprovoked. I was angry about it, and Amy happened to be visiting and was trying to get me to understand "why" I was angry. When I told her, she kept prying to try to make me understand his side. As if I should completely disregard my own anger. She wanted me to see the big picture because she likes to see the big picture.

Me? Fúck the big picture. I don't think like that. I live more in the moment. It's just how I think. She kept trying to get me understand the way she thinks, disregarding how I felt about the situation, what did I do? I gave up, I became cold, distant, didn't bother trying to explain to her how I felt because she wasn't satisfied with the answer.

Example 2: Amy spent a week getting nauseous anytime she took a shower. It also just happened that her period was running late. An hour right before I have to leave she tells me she's stressed out because her period is late. Insinuating that somehow, with us never having had intercourse, without my semen never even coming close to her vagina...that she miraculously might've become pregnant.

How would any of you take that? I was surprised, confused, frustrated, and angry. Not only that, but I had to leave soon. She got so upset with my cold behavior she told me to leave. So I went to leave, fúck, I was supposed to anyway. She got me to come back in. Her argument was that she upset with my reaction. But as far as I'm concerned the whole issue was FUBAR. No sex, no proof, and I was just supposed to jump aboard the preggy wagon? **** no. I told her that wasn't reasonable grounds to judge my actions, that's completely unfair! We've never had sex and I'm supposed to be supportive of this miracle baby?

This past weekend: She has every right to be upset with my behavior. I was doing everything I could to get myself out of that rut. I even managed to set it aside for a bit while we celebrated New Year's. But I don't hide when I'm upset very well. I don't usually even try. I usually go off by myself and try to figure things out, but it was New Year's...and outside of that, on a normal basis, we live 3 hours away from each other. There's no leaving and coming back later. There's no one day visits or trips. Either we're together, or we're not. There's no real in between besides hanging out with her family, (which I enjoy).

Those are the only 3 situations that we've had in the past 4 months.

Fúck man, I'm not perfect, and I've done nothing but try to treat her right. I know how to hurt people, I grew up in a household where that's all people did to each other. I've given her none of that. I never want to. It's frustrating for me that my efforts feel fruitless.

[Gigabitch]

It's frustrating for me that my efforts feel fruitless.

...and it's hard to say if they're actually fruitless or not, given that she doesn't always let you know how she's feeling.

I hope you guys can meet in the middle over this. She needs to quit acting like the air traffic controller of emotional events and you need to stop being so reactionary.

I think she made a mistake in concealing her hurt feelings over the coldness this weekend. It's like faking an orgasm- pointless and misleading.

[anachronistic]

What the fück man?

I live in Oklahoma. They live in Pennsylvania. That's a long trip for a weekend. And an expensive one at that.

Don't you get any vacation time at your place of employment? Perhaps you should save up and whatnot. There are ways around it. If you don't get any vacation, maybe you could speak with your boss, tell him you've been really stressed out moving to a new place and all, and you've been wondering if you could take a few days off. There's ways around it.

We usually skip a week to stay at home. This conveniently is the weekend we're not seeing each other.

Talk about a coincidence, huh? Well anyway, you should probably tell her that you both need some space and perhaps no contact at all until next weekend would probably be best for the relationship.

Following this. One thing I made note of when she was trying to explain how she was trying to be so nice, how she's always so patient and nice with people who aren't always nice to her...While I was stuck in my mind trying to figure shit out (cold/distant), she was acting content and happy to try to bring me out of it. I didn't realize how much it hurt her until the morning of the 3rd day (the morning I created this thread). Not that I was unaware my behavior was having some kind of effect on her, but seeing her upset spurred me to action.

Oi, you're a bit right with that. You're a different person, you probably need to go about it a different way. I'm a guy too, Frasbee, I tend to do the same thing when I get angry, needing to be alone and whatnot. Maybe it's a guy thing, maybe not.

She rarely shows her angry/sad emotions, so it's difficult for me to know what she's feeling.

Yeah that's a problem for her. But body language is too indirect to be depended on. You both should be communicating your distress verbally.

You know what I've hated about these arguments, this thread? Is that it sounds like we have these chronic fights and issues and it's nothing at all like that.

Not so much for me. But I've seen the worst of it. Just sounds like a communication issue, that's all.

Every instance where I become passive aggressive and "cold" is for one: Me withholding becoming aggressive aggressive.

two: In a situation where the other individual is still present when I'd rather be by myself to figure things out.

That's when you need to say "Okay, I'm sorry but I'm getting really stressed out, I need to go for a walk or something."

First week I moved to Oklahoma, my brother mocked me, he said something really mean, something he used to say when he used to tease me when I was a kid. Completely unprovoked. I was angry about it, and Amy happened to be visiting and was trying to get me to understand "why" I was angry. When I told her, she kept prying to try to make me understand his side. As if I should completely disregard my own anger. She wanted me to see the big picture because she likes to see the big picture.

Me? Fúck the big picture. I don't think like that. I live more in the moment. It's just how I think. She kept trying to get me understand the way she thinks, disregarding how I felt about the situation, what did I do? I gave up, I became cold, distant, didn't bother trying to explain to her how I felt because she wasn't satisfied with the answer.

Just sounds like you took a joke personally. Where I bolded... what did you tell her? I am a bit confused about that part. Amy was just trying to get you to lighten up, but went about it the wrong way. However, you have every right to be offended. Did you ask her to stop? Did you tell her that you need a little space to cool down about it? Before you got all cold and distant?

Example 2: Amy spent a week getting nauseous anytime she took a shower. It also just happened that her period was running late. An hour right before I have to leave she tells me she's stressed out because her period is late. Insinuating that somehow, with us never having had intercourse, without my semen never even coming close to her vagina...that she miraculously might've become pregnant.

How would any of you take that?

What the bloody hell? I would take that as she was cheating on me one way or another. She did after all jump to that conclusion for whatever reason. I don't think the mood that PMS puts a woman in is any excuse for that.

I was surprised, confused, frustrated, and angry. Not only that, but I had to leave soon. She got so upset with my cold behavior she told me to leave. So I went to leave, fúck, I was supposed to anyway. She got me to come back in. Her argument was that she upset with my reaction. But as far as I'm concerned the whole issue was FUBAR. No sex, no proof, and I was just supposed to jump aboard the preggy wagon? **** no. I told her that wasn't reasonable grounds to judge my actions, that's completely unfair! We've never had sex and I'm supposed to be supportive of this miracle baby?

No kidding. Did you confront her about that? I think you handled that situation all right (correct me if that's wrong, ladies)

This past weekend: She has every right to be upset with my behavior. I was doing everything I could to get myself out of that rut. I even managed to set it aside for a bit while we celebrated New Year's. But I don't hide when I'm upset very well. I don't usually even try. I usually go off by myself and try to figure things out, but it was New Year's...and outside of that, on a normal basis, we live 3 hours away from each other. There's no leaving and coming back later. There's no one day visits or trips. Either we're together, or we're not. There's no real in between besides hanging out with her family, (which I enjoy).

Why didn't you just leave if you didn't want to be there? Sure, no coming back for the weekend, but it really sounds like you desperately needed time alone. Don't feel like you HAVE to be there for the whole weekend. What about a walk? Go to the pub? I'm sure there are things to do to take your mind off the situation, or to give you a place to cool down.

Fúck man, I'm not perfect, and I've done nothing but try to treat her right. I know how to hurt people, I grew up in a household where that's all people did to each other. I've given her none of that. I never want to. It's frustrating for me that my efforts feel fruitless.

It's no excuse man. Doesn't matter what kind of household you grew up in, seems like you grew a head on your shoulders despite it; you got smarts. Sometimes you have to do things for yourself, not just another person. I think you need to do this for you, not just Amy, I'm sure it has a toll on other people too.

When you begin to feel that way, you need to throw in the towel and say "Okay, I know you're trying to change things for the better, but I really need to go for a walk or something" Then when you think about the problem, try to find the source of the issue instead of pointing blame at someone. Maybe it will allow you to be more open to Amy and allow her to comfort you through it.

[Junket]

When you begin to feel that way, you need to throw in the towel and say "Okay, I know you're trying to change things for the better, but I really need to go for a walk or something" Then when you think about the problem, try to find the source of the issue instead of pointing blame at someone. Maybe it will allow you to be more open to Amy and allow her to comfort you through it.

Point the blame?

What?

I don't point the blame at anyone. I haven't mentioned this yet, but my walks used to be a problem for her. She kept acting like I was avoiding her or the problem. To tell you the truth, I know I do not have an "anger problem". I definitely on par with the best of them, at least.

You know where half of this frustration is? Her receiving my reactions badly. Even after I explain them in a very calm and rational manner.

Just sounds like you took a joke personally. Where I bolded... what did you tell her? I am a bit confused about that part. Amy was just trying to get you to lighten up, but went about it the wrong way. However, you have every right to be offended. Did you ask her to stop? Did you tell her that you need a little space to cool down about it? Before you got all cold and distant?

Yes, I told her to stop. But I went from being angry about the joke, to being irritated that she kept trying to "fix" my problem. And again, yes I told her to stop.

Anyway, I verbalize my discontent more than I ever have before, and silly as it seems, it's fúcking hard.

I'm gonna go grab some food.

Here's some food for thought...just got this after I told her I need some more time to think about things (via e-mail):

Take all the time you need. Maybe we should both take the time... and just slow everything down.

In the meantime... I owe you an apology that goes far beyond this email:

I realize... In alot of ways, I was blaming you for stuff you had nothing to do with. Stuff that happened a long time ago with another guy. You scared me this weekend, because some of the way you were acting reminded me of how he was. (Only-- that was how he was in a good mood.) I think I got way more freaked out than I needed to, because I suddenly felt like I was back there again. Like I was that girl again... the girl who just takes it, and smiles, and has no self-esteem, and no self-respect... I never wanted to be her again.

But you're not that guy... Not even close. (And for the record - I am NOT that girl... not even close.) I'm not saying this weekend wasn't hurtful. But you realized that, and you apologized... and when you did - you meant it. And you said you were gonna work on it. That should have been the end of it. It was really wrong of me to take it further than that. And that email... so many things about it were really out of line. I am deeply.... deeply sad with myself today. This should have ended the night you called to say sorry. In that moment, you said everything that I needed to hear regarding this weekend...

The email I sent... That was me not doing a good job of filtering my anger... anger that probably shouldn't have been directed at you even. I think I was so afraid that I'd found myself back in that place, that I felt like I had to draw a line in the sand... A line I neglected to draw way back when. So much of that was just old anger and old fear; and had little to do with you, or the situation at hand.

For that, you have all my remorse... I am more than sorry. I feel like even insinuating that you are an abusive kind of person... was a betrayal of trust on my part. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's how I feel. Like I should have held you more carefully.
...

[anachronistic]

I haven't mentioned this yet, but my walks used to be a problem for her. She kept acting like I was avoiding her or the problem. To tell you the truth, I know I do not have an "anger problem". I definitely on par with the best of them, at least.

Good that you mention it. I think part of the problem is unconcealed further in her email you just shared. If you *used* to go on walks but she discouraged it then you really have done pretty much all you can.

You know where half of this frustration is? Her receiving my reactions badly. Even after I explain them in a very calm and rational manner.

Yes, I agree now. I'd say that she's insecure, having problems trusting from that past relationship she had. I still stand by the thought that there is a communication issue... both you and her. I think you need to compromise that out, but after you take some time to think about it all.

I think you've got the problem by the balls now.

[Gigabitch]

I think you've got the problem by the balls now.

Eeeeww. Wash your hands.

Anyway, Fras, what do you want to happen? Do you want to move to NOLA, or do you want to go back home, or maybe somewhere else entirely?

And how did it make you feel when she said "slow everything down"?

[IndiReloaded]

My advice only to add to what has already been said:

Get it all out in the open. Sooner rather than later. You both have the right to set boundaries & describe expectations. Whether you can or want to meet any of them is up to you both.

When you think of NOT meeting any, think carefully about what makes you afraid of this possibility. Try to remember you are both young & not married, just exploring the *possibility* of the two of you as 'we'.

[Junket]

Eeeeww. Wash your hands.

Anyway, Fras, what do you want to happen? Do you want to move to NOLA, or do you want to go back home, or maybe somewhere else entirely?

And how did it make you feel when she said "slow everything down"?

I'm exhausted.

[Tiay]

hm, In the first example, it seems like she was trying to help. You were upset with your brother. She wanted to help you out of it. But instead, she ended up not listening to *why* you were upset by simply empathizing, but rather trivializing your right to be upset by telling you how to fix it.

hence, if you start to feel that the reason for you being angry or feeling whatever you're feeling is going to be dismissed or not understood (even if this is in a good hearted attempt to "fix" it) then you don't see the point of explaining it, so you just go cold.... ?

Assuming I got that right, if you can communicate that to her that'd be like half the battle with this issue, I bet. It sounds like she is willing to listen, to admit fault. And as you said, you're not perfect; well neither is she. If you can accept each others flaws and learn to recognize and safe-guard each other's hot-buttons, you'll grow closer together.



PS: as for her period being late incident.. hm, I dunno, it really depends. But, as someone who has completely misjudged the effect of saying "my period's late" and had it explode in her face, I would like to note that maybe, all she wanted to hear was "don't be silly, we didn't have sex OR done anything risky otherwise. You'll be fine."
excuse us for getting a little freaked out and wanting to tell our partners when our bodies do not function as normal.

[Off2College]

what is NOLA. And is it Amy or Army.

Oh man this thread is a headache! I feel for you man

[Maus]

Frasbee I'm the same way with people. I like being around freinds and people i like, but it really does drain me. I need time by myself to recharge... It seems you do too.

I am an introvert. You seem like an introvert.

[Junket]

I would like to note that maybe, all she wanted to hear was "don't be silly, we didn't have sex OR done anything risky otherwise. You'll be fine."

Funny you say that.

That's actually how the conversation started. She asked something along the lines of "we're responsible right?". And I told her, of course, that's why I don't even want to have protected sex/it's not worth the worry/we're very careful.

And she told me she felt better after that. That she gets to worrying and she needs somebody to bring her back down to Earth.

But then I asked "why do you ask?"

It all went to hell from there.

Sorry I'm being vague with all these things. I'm leaving a lot of details out, but it's a lot to recall. And with any relationship as developed as ours is, there's so many damn little details...I just kinda dish them out as they're needed to avoid writing a novel.

[squirrley]

Fras, you know this is a VERY difficult relationship right out of the gates. Youre hours apart, good or not, this does NOT allow for your relationship to grow. Ive been there and we finally ended it because we werent doing every day activities together. It like stunted the growth of our relationship. We were always on our best behavior because we only had a couple of days. And like you've said, after 96 hours youre sick of the situation or ready to leave. Not that its against her, but you need your time.

All of the arguements, youre going to have them no matter what the situation. Its how you handle it. I dont think theres really a relationship out there that gets JUST how to do this effectively. Sure we all can say what to do or give the advice, read books and what not, but were human. We fight or flight. Im like you in the way of just walking away from the arguement. Im not doing it to hurt my husband, hell I just shut down. Id rather be alone not talk and cool off in my own mind rather than sit there and go round and round and get nowhere.

WE all have our own ways of dealing with issues. At least you two talk and apologize, its a start. You have to think about where YOU want your future to go. Do you want AMY as your lifetime partner? I would start to think about long term goals for yourself. Do you see her in your life or not, etc. Go from there. IF you two want things to work, youre going to have to start thinking about living closer to one another. I guess its similar to HS relationships when one goes to college, sometimes they work and people can get through it. Just how bad do YOU WANT IT?

You shouldnt have to defend yourself Fras. You are who you are, sometimes some gals like to change their man, but again, your FRAS! Dont change for anyone, you do it for yourself if its healthier for YOU. When you have a relationship, you accept the person youre with, but keep in mind, youre not married, and coming from a married gal now, you love your spouse unconditionaly, faults and all. It doesnt mean you have to like it, but it doesnt mean you should change for them.

I think its good some of things are coming out now rather than later. You will want to know these things. Take it as a learning experience and a growing one too. Ya take the good with the bad!

[Gigabitch]

With regard to the poisonous-comment-by-brother thing, I'd like to point out that Amy seems to come from a family where love and trust are a given. She has no experience with dysfunctional family dynamics. She simply doesn't get it, Fras, and she probably never will.

I had this come up with my boyfriend a couple of times, and I came to the conclusion that I wouldn't want him to fully understand it. He's lucky, and so is Amy, and I'm glad for the both of them.

It is ****ing annoying sometimes, though.

[Junket]

She has no experience with dysfunctional family dynamics.

I won't comment on whether she agrees with this or not, but I know her family life growing up wasn't exactly ideal.

Spent the day with my brother and Victor. Was pretty cool. I still don't know what to do about Amy and this move.

I kinda don't even want to think about it...tired of this stress...tired of this anxiety...