Hi everyone

[GrkScorp]

How exactly is all of this going to help me then?

I'll tell you what.. just for you.. let's come up with a model to represent the interaction between you and your girl..

There are three levels of "value", and in the following order:

- Projected Value
- Perceived Value
- Actual Value

Let's talk about the relationship between these, (this isn't in the book)..

Actual > Perceived: Low self-awareness
Actual < Perceived: Artificially high self-esteem
Actual = Perceived: Complete self-awareness

As a result of that;

Perceived > Projected: Modest, secure, covertly confident
Perceived < Projected: Defensive, insecure, false confidence
Perceived = Projected: Transcendent, secure, overtly confident

I'll let you in on something interesting..

Here is how men feel around other men*: (Actual < Perceived)
Here is how men feel around women: (Actual > Perceived)
Here is how women feel around women**: (Actual > Perceived)
Here is how women feel around men: (Actual < Perceived)

*: Men who they feel hostile towards..
**: Women who they don't feel hostile towards..

I hope you can see, that all this demonstrates is that "Perceived" value is the only variable between these two.. Men will adjust downwards as hostility falls.. but the effect is not as clear with women.. it would seem there's no pattern.. but in reality.. it has less to do with hostility.. and more to do with intimidation and ego.. (I know ego sounds bad, but it's not a bad word, it's natural)..

Now, watch this..

Here is how men feel around other men*: (Perceived < Projected)
Here is how men feel around women: (Perceived > Projected)
Here is how women feel around women**: (Perceived > Projected)
Here is how women feel around men: (Perceived < Projected)

*: Men who they feel hostile towards..
**: Women who they don't feel hostile towards..

After the perceived value changes, the projected value may adjust aswell.. Projected value adjust more quickly.. It's external.. and conscious behavior.. Again, same dynamic..

Notice now, where this leaves you in the interaction..

You: (Actual > Perceived > Projected)
Her: (Actual < Perceived < Projected)

On top of this.. she "may" actually throw sh*t-tests your way.. to see if your perceived value is equal to or higher than her perceived value of you.. If this is the frame in the interaction.. you will ALWAYS lose.. because your already low perceived value (in relation to your actual value) and your even lower projected value, will make her feel that she has accurately gauged your (actual value).. when in fact it's actually higher.. On the other hand, Mr. Poker Superstar, she's successfully bluffed, by putting up a strong front (projected value) and even convincing herself that her actual value is higher than what it really is (resulting in a greater perceived value in relation to her actual value).. She called, went all in, and you folded.. (sh*t-test)

This is actually the downfall of female sh*t-tests.. but they have their place to avoid the following scenario:

You: (Actual > Perceived < Projected)
Her: (Actual < Perceived < Projected)

or

You: (Actual < Perceived > Projected)
Her: (Actual < Perceived < Projected)

or

You: (Actual < Perceived < Projected)
Her: (Actual < Perceived < Projected)

Sh*t-tests will guage for incongruence.. and incongruence will expose the reality in these cases.. a low actual value in relation to other values.. (This is when guys try to "be confident" or "be bold")Therefore, with 3/5 odds of sh*t-tests being useful.. you end up with women always wanting to push your bottons, and test, and try and find out more about your limits and boundries.. And when you look at the odds.. rightfully so..

Why 3/5 and not 3/4? Type-o? No.. here's the 5th case..

You: (Actual = Perceived = Projected)
Her: (Actual < Perceived < Projected)

When we are talking about having a "strong frame", this is what we mean.. notice how all three are in perfect harmony.. No sh*t-test in the world stands a chance of shaking up that perfect harmony between self-awareness and true confidence.. there's no "act".. a total sense of security and comfort exists.. and after she realizes that her sh*t-tests have no effect.. she starts to realize that you are the real-deal..

But your work isn't done.. Oh no.. you're the real-deal the moment you walk out your door.. that has nothing to do with you talking to her.. before you open your mouth.. you're the real-deal.. you're always the real-deal.. those three are always in perfect harmony.. You work has just started.. After she realizes on her own that she hasn't met some guy who is "acting" confident, comfortable, and secure with himself.. it's your JOB.. your DUTY.. to sh*t-call her..

Sh*t-calling is different from sh*t-testing.. simply because the odds are better.. Most of the time.. they're all full of sh*t.. They ALL have an "act/front" going on.. you will NEVER meet a woman in the world who will be (Perceived = Projected).. NEVER.. and that's largely because they worry about their "social reputation & image".. something that doesn't really matter much to guys.. but it does to them..

When you sh*t-call.. your goal is to crush her front.. destroy her act and make her realize that you KNOW that it's an act.. make her realize just how incongruent she is, how incongruent she appears.. and bring the interaction to:

You: (Actual = Perceived = Projected)
Her: (Actual = Perceived = Projected)

Warning: Not all women are (Actual < Perceived), many women are actually (Actual > Perceived).. so instead of bringing them down from the clouds and landing their fantasy plane down to reality.. you may have to help them realize their actual value first.. you may have to actually help them discover more about themselves and who they actually are.. (I warned you, it's a major pit-fall, try and avoid it)

That's the goal.. you can't move on to "comfort" unless you bring the interaction to this level first.. And no! It doesn't take months, or weeks, or days, or even hours.. (ok, maybe it might take a couple of hours).. but it's fairly quick.. again, like everything else, just a matter of practice.. but you'll get there.. and as you start getting better at this.. you'll start to get a better understanding of how this dynamic works..

Best,

GrkScorp

[Asparagoose]

I'm sorry it's been a while since i've posted. GrkScorp, I just want to thank you so much for the time you took to write everything. I was doing some thinking in the past week about everything you said. I looked at my life and realized the mistakes i've been doing. I took a look at some of your other posts and it all started to make sense. I don't feel like a different person, just a better person. I think it has more to do with what you said about discovering yourself and being more aware of who you are.

I wouldn't be posting again if I didn't have good news. I saw her this Monday during my lunch break with an other group of people she works with in her department. I was with some other people. When I saw her, without even thinking about it, I just went up to her to casually say hi and not bother pretending I didn't know who she was and all that stuff I would have normally done. She opened up right away and we started talking with her group. We were all just talking about work, so it was nothing too special. Then one of her friends actually asked if I was the guy who put the manager in place. We had a lot of fun talking about that.

Yesterday during our lunch break, one of her friends came up to ask me if I wanted to come with them for lunch. We went to this soup place and again just talked casually. During that conversation, the girl i'm interested in was looking at me the whole time while her friend was asking me questions like if I was seeing someone else right now and about my past relationships. Before we left, I told them that today I was going to go to a sushi place because I haven't had sushi in such a long time.

Today, I went down to her department and we left together to go get lunch. She hates sushi but said that she thought it would be much worse but after comming to try it didn't feel it was so bad as people make it out to be. We had a more intimate and much deeper conversation since it was the two of us. Without even thinking, I was just qualifying her and getting to know her. Somewhere between all that she now wanted to get to know me.

We both realized that we were going to be late and had to get back. I thought we both had a great time, it felt like the right thing to do so when the check came she first offered to split but then I offered to get it. She asked if I was sure and if it was ok and I said that it wasn't a big deal. On our way back to the office, we were talking about what plays and musical productions are playing. She asked me if I ever saw some play, I told her that i've never actually been to a play. So I just suggested casually that we should go see one sometime, and I left it at that. Before we came close to the office, she gave me her number and told me to find a play that I think I would be interested in. Then we both went back to work.

After work, I resisted calling her for dinner on the same night. That would have been a little too much I think. But I called her just now when I got back home, and we talked for close to an hour or two. We made plans to go see something this Saturday. That was in the middle of the conversation. Then I told her that I had to go but we would finish talking over lunch tomorrow. I closed the phone and couldn't believe it. You have no idea how great she looks and how amazing she is as a person. I just felt like a dream had come true. You just changed my life man. This forum rocks my socks! I'm sorry, i'm just really happy right now, i'll stop.

[Cain]

I just want to say hi to everyone here.

A little bit about myself. I just turned 28 recently this year. I'm not too tall, but not short either. I'm not a heavy guy, I stay in shape and go to the gym and jogging each weekend.

I just recently broke up with my girlfriend. We were together for about 4 years. She was really the only girlfriend I had. I'm not a bad looking guy. Everyone always tells me that i'm really good looking, and even other girls tell me that I must be really lucky with girls, but i'm not. I never was.

All through highschool and then again in college, nobody ever seemed to be interested in me. I didn't get it. And maybe it's just recent events talking for me, but my ex was really the only girl that ever talked to me. When she talked to me, I knew she was interested. Growing up, I tried to talk to girls. But they would always want to just be friends, or would always start telling me that they didn't feel the same way about me, and then start telling me about this other guy they liked. And it hurt. But my ex wasn't like that. She was really nice. It almost seems like yesterday, I can't believe 4 years went by. It almost feels unreal.

But now that we're not together anymore, it just feels that I won't ever find anyone again. It sounds stupid, but I don't like going outside my house in the morning on my way to work. I see all the people out there, couples or people interested in eachother and it just reminds me of what I don't have. I had it only once, and now it's gone. I know it sounds wrong, but I feel like I want to cry sometimes. I just don't understand it. I'm not bad looking, i'm not unsuccessful, i'm not rude or mean, but i'm never more than just a friend.

I just want to know what i'm doing wrong, and what I have to do to fix it. I'm over my ex. She broke things off but i'm over it now. I just want to be able to move on and live a normal life like other guys.

I've replies to many of your posts so far (even negative!) and never came across your introduction post.

It definitely sucks when long relationships fall apart, but don't go all hard on yourself. Confidence. Don't be just a friend. If you are always there for the girls like a friend would be, you're more than likely going to stay a friend. Most of the time you need to let it be known that you want more.

Good luck.

[Cain]

Oh, and reading your last post... good. I'm glad there's a chance things are going to be sparking again. Keep everyone posted.

[GrkScorp]

First of all.., I really want you to notice how not cool it is to use that book against fellow guys.. Guys have your back Goose.. don't be inconsiderate or toy with them.. do you see how Cain is despite what you said? That's what it means to be a guy.. that's how guys are with guys..

I hope you're not being a social robot with this girl.. because it's not going to get you too far.. Keep what you learned in mind.. don't go overboard with it..

[GrkScorp]

I'm sorry it's been a while since i've posted.

Mmm..., just a little..

Yesterday during our lunch break, one of her friends came up to ask me if I wanted to come with them for lunch. During that conversation, the girl i'm interested in was looking at me the whole time while her friend was asking me questions like if I was seeing someone else right now and about my past relationships.

Obviously.., you hit it good with the first lunch.. she most likely got her friend to do all the snooping for her so she can keep her act up..

On our way back to the office, we were talking about what plays and musical productions are playing. She asked me if I ever saw some play, I told her that i've never actually been to a play. So I just suggested casually that we should go see one sometime, and I left it at that. Before we came close to the office, she gave me her number and told me to find a play that I think I would be interested in. Then we both went back to work.

Please tell me you saw where that was going before it progressed into the more obvious.. Yeah..., ok.. this is a done deal.. my work here is done..

After work, I resisted calling her for dinner on the same night. That would have been a little too much I think.

You think? Umm.., yeah.. it wouldn't been a little too much.. good call..

But I called her just now when I got back home, and we talked for close to an hour or two. We made plans to go see something this Saturday. That was in the middle of the conversation. Then I told her that I had to go but we would finish talking over lunch tomorrow. I closed the phone and couldn't believe it.

You're borderline pro.. that's good news Goose.. that's what I come online to hear.. good news like that.. music to my ears.. Post up an image of her on imageshack or photobucket.. and keep us posted on how it goes.. and don't thank me.. that was all you..

Best,

GrkScorp