Religious differences - first post and a doozy!

[DoctorB2B]

Honestly, I don't see how a deep belief in Jesus is at all compatible with a lack thereof. I mean really - are you really going to be okay with your future kids singing "yes Jesus loves me" and pressuring you to believe so you won't go to hell? How will you respond to a child's genuine distress that you aren't "saved"?

I don't see how this would work.

Again, this is my dilemma ...

[Lipp]

My evidence to myself: To say evolution has brought us to our current state seems utterly ridiculous in my mind. This would assert that evolving cells would have had cognitive thought, enough so where they would have designated the need for functional systems like our immune system which in itself is fascinating. Science teaches that evolution occurs through random mutations over time that are subject to genetic drift whereby they either remain in the population or simply find their way to extinction. This theory implies that a single strand of RNA splashing onto clay has evolved over the last 4.6 billion years into the modern day homo sapien.

There are simply some things that I can swallow and some that I can't and that is one of them.

I have an acquaintance in his 60s who is christian as well as a doctor and doesn't refute evolution, partly because according to him it is possible to demonstrate with bacteria to compensate for the time-span, and at least over here (Australia) most churches don't seem to refute evolution either but care more about the origin of life. Not the first time that they have to change their opinion.

Anyways, I'm in a somewhat similar position as I'm currently in a serious relationship with a fairly devout christian girl, been pretty open-minded about it by joining for church sessions and bible study groups, if anything it has given me some more knowledge but hasn't changed my opinion the slightest, but it's a positive thing that at least the two of us can discuss topics and issues.

Yet of course it's never quite the same. I don't have a problem with her being christian, but apparently she can't always "connect" as well just because we can't discuss church stuff as two believers, but oh well, giving it a shot anyway. If anything I'd rather be open and clear about it than pretend to be religious, which in my opinion would be meaner.

My tip would be just to at all costs avoid having heated confrontations and two of you imposing/defending your beliefs, unless you can do so in a calm manner, otherwise it could probably make you resent eachother.

Personally if I were to have kids I'd be against them going to church until they get old enough to somewhat understand what's being said and decide for themselves, and make sure that they can explore both alternatives. I feel sorry for all the kids that are taken to church by their parents and readily accept anything that the preacher says, even sunday school sessions to solidify it.

And apparently I'm going to hell since I've been given a chance to learn about christianity and join them but haven't done so.

[Gribble]

to explain it all and refute the idea of a personal God above reams of anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

What evidence is there for a personal god?

[Lite]

Some people are able to work past religious differences, and others are not. Basically all you can do is respect her views, opinions, and in turn expect that she respects yours. You don't have to believe in hers, or support them. Merely not argue against them.

However, it sounds like she is going to be the one that is unhappy. It's probably best for you to simply lay it out as: I'm having a crisis of faith, and I'm not sure I will ever be willing to believe in a god, or be a member of a church...and see what her reaction is.

As for the 700 Cult. Well, they're just another in a long line of Christian sub-sects that claims they know the true way to heaven (through donations!)... Just like every other religion on the planet. Which includes more than just Christianity.

[Junket]

Weird, I must've read what I wanted to.

Anyway, no kids?

No problem.

[DoctorB2B]

Weird, I must've read what I wanted to.

Anyway, no kids?

No problem.

Problem solved

[DoctorB2B]

What evidence is there for a personal god?

No evidence for personal or impersonal ... what we know and see would seem to point in the direction of something greater, however that cant be deemed evidence.

[Gribble]

Weird, I must've read what I wanted to.

Anyway, no kids?

No problem.

Until they start having kids. In which case are the kids going to be taught that Jesus came to Earth, was nailed to a cross, rose from the dead, and then magically floated up to the clouds? Are they going to be taught that if you do not believe that story you're a bad person and you will be tortured forever and ever in hellfire? If so, big problem. As Vash pointed out.

I could date a religious woman. I could even live with her and have a serious relationship. I could not, however, have children with her because I could not allow her to manipulate the minds of my children before they are mature enough to reason for themselves.

[Mish]

I still don't believe this is a lost cause. It all comes down to what middle ground the two can reach in their beliefs. How much leeway the kids will have in making their own mind up about Religion (Bear in mind that even most private hardcore Religious schools these days teach about other Religions and are not exclusive - at least here anyway). And how strict an upbringing your wife plans for your children.

I know kids who grew up in very Religious households and really they are not all that Religious. They have their own point of view on things. So I don't think the situation is as bad as some are describing here.

Communication and negotiation are your friends from here Doctor. The more middle ground you can reach with your wife the more chances you will have to save your marriage. And as I said before, room for negotiation as it stands is enormous.

[vashti]

I don't think there is any middle ground between heaven and hell in the minds of devout people.

[Mish]

in the minds of devout people

It depends on how devout they are and how open they are to negotiation with others.

Everyone is different.

[vashti]

All of the originals poster's writings have given every indication she is devout; in fact, he said she was the most Christian person he knows. This is not a problem that is going to away.

[bluesummer]

Devout people are not very open to 'meeting in the middle' in terms of faith in the family. To them, it shows lack of devotion to their faith NOT to raise their children in it, and to be married to a partner that doesn't share their beliefs and refuses to bring their children up under the standards of the religion - hence the father usually expected to be the 'spiritual head of the family'.

I don't see a lot of hope for you guys unless your wife is willing to loosen up. A lot.

[vashti]

... not only that, but a devout person wouldn't jeopardize their children's eternal salvation by watering down their religion to satisfy a non-believing spouse. This is really a black-and-white issue.

[bluesummer]

I totally agree, Vash.

I've been with two people of different religious beliefs than me, including my fiance. The only reason it works is because neither of them were particularly devout, and therefore didn't care if my beliefs were different. My fiance is a pretty lax Christian, thank god. Church on holidays only, very little prayers, and not too big up on the Jesus thing. I can tolerate his views as long as he tolerates mine.