Obama?!?! Yes or NO?!?!

[Mish]

Rumours now are that she left her governor's post to free up time to run for the next election.

Some people never learn.

This was probably the funniest thing I've read in awhile as far as Palin goes


By Ann Coulter

[url]http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=282[/url]

Indeed, the only good thing about McCain is that he gave us a genuine conservative, Sarah Palin. He's like one of those insects that lives just long enough to reproduce so that the species can survive. That's why a lot of us are referring to Sarah as "The One" these days.

Like Sarah Connor in "The Terminator," Sarah Palin is destined to give birth to a new movement. That's why the Democrats are trying to kill her. And Arnold Schwarzenegger is involved somehow, too. Good Lord, I'm tired.

[DoesntMatter]

Eco with all due respect I disagree with that analysis. Bush was not "made" look like a fool by the media. He WAS the fool and the media just happened to catch on to it and report his foolishness. (Not soon enough unfortunately)

Obama was a nobody. He wasn't a rich and prominent man like Bush. In the 2004 presidential elections noone's even heard about him. It took some really hard work for him to get to where he is now and unlike Bush he didn't have old daddies cronies to baby feed him every step through. Very few people believed he could do it. People believed in his ideals, but when it came down to it, noone really believed a black man could take residence in the white house. But I did because I read "The Audacity of Hope" long before he became a presidential candidate and I knew exactly where he was coming from. It inspired me so much I even wrote a song around it (back in January 2008). Reading his words made me realize that he was coming from a completely different paradigm and he really would deliver some degree of positive change if given an opportunity. He was a person who was worth believing in and once again the media just reported on the reality. It wasn't always that way though, the Republican party tried it's best to dig up dirt on him, but notice how he responded to the allegations, he ran a much more peaceful and positive campaign offering hope and something for people to believe in instead of dog fighting, so is it any wonder that people were inspired to believe? You can say that he's just a puppet and offers more of the same, well some things are hard to change because they are rooted so deeply in the culture, but imo the changes he is pursuing at the moment in the themselves are already ground breaking.

You know, I typed up a response to this yesterday but ended up deleting it because these kinds of debates take too long to finish on a forum. I'm saving them for real life discussions (college) from now on

All I will say is you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about

[Mish]

All I will say is you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about

Say something meaningful or stfu

[DoesntMatter]

Well Mish I don't know how much good this will do. If I had to once explain to you that X implies Y is not the same as Y implies X then it's safe to say there won't be much hope in you getting this

Actually, I already know where your slant and bias is coming from, it's the conventional attitude fed to you by the media. Too bad you (and apparently Coco and Lipp) can't think for themselves and see it how it is

First of all, studies have shown that the profession most likely to vote Democrat is journalists (just for some fun knowledge, the profession most likely to vote Republican is engineers)

But anyways...

It took some really hard work for him to get to where he is now and unlike Bush he didn't have old daddies cronies to baby feed him every step through.

Obama had it handed to him from college on up. As everyone knows, he is an articulate, charismatic, and eloquent black man. The kind of person our higher education system pushes right along, and which is what happened with him

As a politician, the media and everyone else touted him right along for his erudite mannerisms. He barely had to lift a finger for them to do it because they loved him for being such an articulate black man

He didn't have to do jack shit to defeat Clinton in the DNC. The media tore into Clinton because now they had their real hero, Obama. Liberals turning on other liberals, imagine that! Some of the Hillary supporters I know are still bitter about the medias massive bias in favor of Obama

He was a person who was worth believing in and once again the media just reported on the reality.

Is this a joke or are you just that stupid? Have you even watched Obama talk with the press? I can't hear him speak over the sound of the media gagging on his huge black dick. Every little joke he makes and they are bursting at the seams. They love him to death

The media cannot be any father from objectivity with Obama. You also dismissed that they hate Bush. A few days ago I read an article on Yahoo about Obamas upcoming vacation to an ultra expensive resort. They wrote the article in the cutsiest fashion they could, with all kinds of cute little positive quips like "When you're the leader of the free world, it's kind of tough choosing where to go on vacation." Just an example of the writing style.

They proceeded to preemtpively defend him against criticisms of such a lavish vacation during a recession, saying in some cutsie way the Secret Service turned down other locations

Compare that to if BUSH had gone on this kind of vacation during the recession. Think they would have had the same response?

HELL FUCCKING NO

Michele Obama spends almost a grand on a pair of shoes. The media writes about it in a way to make her look clever to nay-sayers and also stylish. What if Laura Bush had bought those expensive shoes during the recession? Same response? NO.

You can say that he's just a puppet and offers more of the same, well some things are hard to change because they are rooted so deeply in the culture, but imo the changes he is pursuing at the moment in the themselves are already ground breaking.

This is the only thing you said that I agree with, that the power of the Presidency is not as great as most people think


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Anyways, every day I become more and more glad I didn't vote for Obama. He's a likeable guy, but his policies suck horribly

He swooshed in to save GM and thereby added a huge number of employees of a failing company that the government will never be able to get rid of

That is unfair to the taxpayers and to investors, who now, thanks to that brilliant precedent, do not know which companies the government will back up and which ones it won't, adding another element of volatility to the stock market

His socializing of healthcare and the government takeover of insurance they are trying to claim will not be the end of private insurers. Never has private industry been able to compete with the government and its limitless supply of money. Just one more industry the governments wants to take over and eventually fucck up in all its bureaucratic messyness

He wants to massively increase taxes in the tax bracket I am going to find myself in in the future. That's fair, I bust my ass for 12 years after graduating from high school so half my money can go paying emergency room visits of illegals and the programs for our social degenerates?


If I apply to a medical school that has 100 openings, half are going to be for women, no matter what. Of the 50 spots I'm left with, 20% are going to be reserved automatically for minorities. Thanks to Obama and his support for this bullshit, this system is just being strengthened

^YEAH, LIKES THATS FUCCKING FAIR



_______________________


THE TAKE AWAY MESSAGE:

Unfortunately, many people are simply taken by his great oratory skills. He can make the shittiest concepts SOUND great, and he does. Many people are too dumb to disregard his verbal elegance and look at the content of what he is talking about

[Mish]

Obama had it handed to him from college on up. As everyone knows, he is an articulate, charismatic, and eloquent black man. The kind of person our higher education system pushes right along, and which is what happened with him

Well how about we compare who had more handed to him, Obama or Bush

Obama

- Born into a working class family
- Experienced poor life first hand after parents divorced, though still graduated high school with good results and was accepted into college
- Finished college with good results despite the poor lifestyle and got accepted into Columbia university where he majored in political science
- Worked in a church based community organization, during his three years as the DCP's director and under his leadership, its staff grew from one to thirteen and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000
- Entered Harvard law school and on merit became and editor of Harvard Law Review and president of the journal in the second year (Obama's election as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review gained national media attention)
- On merit, Obama directed Illinois's Project Vote, a voter registration drive with a staff of ten and 700 volunteers; it achieved its goal of registering 150,000 of 400,000 unregistered African Americans in the state, and led to Crain's Chicago Business naming Obama to its 1993 list of "40 under Forty" powers to be
- Obama was a founding member of the board of directors of Public Allies in 1992
- On merit Obama was elected to the Illinois Senate in 1996, succeeding State Senator Alice Palmer as Senator from Illinois's 13th District
- In May 2002, Obama commissioned a poll to assess his prospects in a 2004 U.S. Senate race; he created a campaign committee, began raising funds and lined up political media consultant David Axelrod by August 2002, and formally announced his candidacy in January 2003 and won an unexpected landslide victory
- Barack Obama's fundraising strategy (of raising money through smaller donations, but from larger pool of donors) has broken previous records for presidential primary and general campaigns, and has changed expectations for future presidential elections. By the general election the campaign committee raised more than $650 million for itself.

W Bush

- Born into a wealthy oil tycoon family
- Experienced a wealthy life style from early years
- Bush finished his high school years at Phillips Academy, a boarding school (then all-male) in Andover, Massachusetts, where he played baseball and during his senior year was the head cheerleader. (Cheerleader?)
- Bush attended Yale University from 1964 to 1968, graduating with a Bachelor's degree in history. (History?)
- Bush also became a member of the secretive Skull and Bones society as a college senior. He characterized himself as an average student
- During Vietnam war In May 1968, Bush was commissioned into the Texas Air National Guard (During the 1968–1974 period, Presidents Johnson and Nixon decided against calling up National Guard units for service in Vietnam. As a result, National Guard service was widely portrayed as a way to avoid combat.) After training, he was assigned to duty in Houston, flying Convair F-102s out of Ellington Air Force Base. Critics, including former Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe and Russ Baker, have alleged that Bush was favorably treated due to his father's political standing, citing his selection as a pilot despite his low pilot aptitude test scores and his irregular attendance
- In 1978, Bush ran for the House of Representatives from Texas's 19th congressional district. His opponent, Kent Hance, portrayed him as being out of touch with rural Texans; Bush lost the election
- In the 80s he returned to the oil industry and began a series of small, independent oil exploration companies which mostly ended in failures
- Bush served on the board of directors for Harken.Questions of possible insider trading involving Harken arose, but the Securities and Exchange Commission's (SEC) investigation concluded that the information Bush had at the time of his stock sale was not sufficient to constitute insider trading.
- (Shadow politics) After easily winning the Republican primary, Bush faced popular Democratic incumbent Governor Ann Richards. In the course of the campaign, Bush pledged to sign a bill allowing Texans to obtain permits to carry concealed weapons. Richards had vetoed the bill, but Bush signed it after he became governor. According to The Atlantic Monthly, the race "featured a rumor that she was a lesbian, along with a rare instance of such a tactic's making it into the public record — when a regional chairman of the Bush campaign allowed himself, perhaps inadvertently, to be quoted criticizing Richards for appointing avowed homosexual activists' to state jobs". The Atlantic, and others, connected the lesbian rumor to Karl Rove, but Rove denied being involved. Bush won the general election with 53.5% against Richards' 45.9%
- Florida controversy during the presidential elections (I think everyone is aware of that).

Comparing the two men, who do you think had it handed it to him the most?

As a politician, the media and everyone else touted him right along for his erudite mannerisms. He barely had to lift a finger for them to do it because they loved him for being such an articulate black man

That was a Media recognition of Obama based on merit. But if you disagree, remember a time when Bush was also the media favourite (it wasn't won on merit mind you, but thanks to Bin Laden). For awhile Bush was media's favourite simply because he was a "War time President" as he continuously described himself as such. What happened to that media popularity? What happened? He squandered it. Iraq, handling of Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse, response to Katrina, excessive vacations at the ranch, NSA warrantless surveillance, Plame affair, Guatanamo controversies and many others proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was an incompetent president. So it wasn't some stooge in the media backroom pushing the button that made Bush unpopular he was completely responsible for his failures and his own unpopularity.

By April 2008, Bush's disapproval ratings were the highest ever recorded in the 70-year history of the Gallup poll for any president, with 69% of those polled disapproving of the job Bush was doing as president and 28% approving.In September 2008, in polls performed by various agencies, Bush's approval rating ranged from 19%—the lowest ever—to 34%.and his disapproval rating stood at 69%. Bush left the White House as one of the most unpopular American presidents, second in unpopularity only to Richard Nixon.

[DoesntMatter]

Comparing the two men, who do you think had it handed it to him the most?

Bush had it easiest until he got to college. For sure

But beyond that, a comparison is harder to make. Bush had a lot of the connections laid out, but Obama had the pull of the institutes and once into the DNC, the pull of the media. I'll otherwise concede Bush had it a lot easier from college on as well, but both had it relatively easy, and once Obama was in the national spotlight, he had it the easiest without a doubt

Another comparison would be that between Obama and McCain. Who ahd it easier? Obama, far and away. He wasn't tortured for years in a Vietnamese prison camp, after all

That was a Media recognition of Obama based on merit.

His merit? What was his merit? He was a Senator for 4 fuccking years! You wanna know his merit?

He speaks well and people will stand in awe of his grasp of the English language and his ability to make any shitty idea seem fabulous

The media favored Obama as soon as they heard about him. It didn't have to do with merits. It had to do with him being an articulate black man. From Mark Halperin, a Times magazine editor:

"Your typical reporter has a thinly disguised preference that Barack Obama be the nominee. The narrative of him beating her is better than her beating him, in part because she's a Clinton and in part because he's a young African American. ... There's no one rooting for her to come back"

For awhile Bush was media's favourite simply because he was a "War time President" as he continuously described himself as such. What happened to that media popularity? What happened? He squandered it. Iraq, handling of Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse, response to Katrina, excessive vacations at the ranch, NSA warrantless surveillance, Plame affair, Guatanamo controversies and many others proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was an incompetent president. So it wasn't some stooge in the media backroom pushing the button that made Bush unpopular he was completely responsible for his failures and his own unpopularity.

Are you fuccking nutz?!?! He NEVER had that popularity!

And btw, how about not turning this around into an anti-Bush thread?

[Junket]

[DoesntMatter]

btw, you can have the last response.


I am not going to make another post in this thread

[Junket]

What, no rebuttal?

Was my argument that good?

[Mish]

Another comparison would be that between Obama and McCain. Who ahd it easier?

I didn't say anything about McCain in my original post. I concede that McCain definitely had it tougher than Bush and was much more admirable. I think toeing the party line for so long at a time when Bush was so unpopular was what brought him down in the end. The public didn't buy the Maverick image.

His merit? What was his merit?

Obama's media popularity is on his merit and achievements in life, like I posted before. Graduating despite poor lifestyle, being a successful community director and leader, becoming the first ever black president of the Harvard Law Review which gained national media attention, being a founding member of potent social organizations, encouraging positive political campaigns and leading by example, creating new campaigning and fund raising strategies breaking all previous records, stuff like that makes people popular.

And btw, how about not turning this around into an anti-Bush thread?

It started as Bush / Obama comparison in Eco's reply. My reply to her just continued that. Then you replied to me, so continue with the subject you replied to. And how about not turning this into anti-democrats thread?

[Doc Durian]

McCain, Bush, and Obama are all fockwits, and so are their fans and those who naively voted for them.

So stop this stupid bantering about and recognize that it's futile and ignorant.