I suck with women so much, long post, need help and lots of it

[selke]

she just texted me "btw i hope you make good breakfast lol"


wtf does that mean? Am I spending the night with her cause it ****ing sounds like it!

I have no idea wtf is going on right now..

[NeoSeminole]

have you looked into PUA material yet?

[NeoSeminole]

here's a good video to start you off with.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWnPH-kXeZM"]YouTube - Mystery VH1 Pickup Artist - Message from Mystery[/ame]

[selke]

that guy speaks in a pretty articulate manner. where can i see more of these videos?

[NeoSeminole]

youtube. Look up Mystery and PUA

[alwaysloveyz]

if your not social because you worry bout how people will react to you, just ignore it. WHO CARES. just talk, say ANYTHING! and stop putting yourself down. i thought i was ugly and really over weight, but when i got over those thoughts, well, here i am, in the last 3 weeks ive gotten 4 phone numbers. and didnt even have to try and flirt. one girl, she was walking by me while on my cig break during class, well i just asked her bout her tattoo and how i wanted to get my left arm covered in tats...then some how dland came up, anyways, she gave me her number and said we should go to dland sometime.

anyways, just stop thinking so much and get out there, it'll take some gettin use to, but you'll definitly get use to it.

[IndiReloaded]

Good luck Selke. Just remember to think about the irony of someone posting a 'personal message to you' (and thousands of other guys) over youtube. That is a deliberate psych technique, FYI.

Mbe its b/c I'm older and trained to see these things, but that video always struck me as manipulative and loaded with inconsistencies.

Not that his message doesn't have some merit. Anything that increases your confidence & helps you get over fear is admirable: just remember that sales people coat messages in layers and try to deliberately tweak your emotions. Anyone from sales (or psychology training) recognizes this technique immediately. Particularly these PUA guys like Mystery and David DeAngelo. Don't believe that b/c you are male doesn't mean they aren't as keen to manipulate you as readily as the gormless females they target. These guys aren't personally motivated to help YOU become confident with girls, tho that's how they suck you in. They are motivated for you to buy into their program(s).

Just to be clear (before Neo freaks that I am attacking his religion): I'm not saying this PUA can't give you some ideas to try. Like I said, that video is a mix of ideas+manipulation--like any good sales technique. So, make sure in your further delving into this stuff that whatever changes you make is aligned with your personal integrity and fits with 'who you are'. These guys use NLP and all sort of of pseudo-psych to make their points and are VERY good at arguing their case. Be wary of people like this.

[url]http://www.skepdic.com/neurolin.html[/url]

[NeoSeminole]

IndiReloaded says:

"Good luck Selke. Just remember to think about the irony of someone posting a 'personal message to you' (and thousands of other guys) over youtube. That is a deliberate psych technique, FYI.

Mbe its b/c I'm older and trained to see these things, but that video always struck me as manipulative and loaded with inconsistencies."

okay...? Not sure what the point of all this was except an opportunity for you to brag, especially the underlined part (was that really necessary?) Was the video directed at you? No. Did the guy in the video or I give a sales pitch to buy anything? No. Does watching it cause harm to the viewer? No. So I don't know why you're 'warning' the OP and felt the need to throw in that you're "older" and "trained" to see these things.

also, explain what about the video struck you as manipulative and loaded with inconsistencies. I'd love to hear.

"Not that his message doesn't have some merit. Anything that increases your confidence & helps you get over fear is admirable: just remember that sales people coat messages in layers and try to deliberately tweak your emotions. Anyone from sales (or psychology training) recognizes this technique immediately. Particularly these PUA guys like Mystery and David DeAngelo. Don't believe that b/c you are male doesn't mean they aren't as keen to manipulate you as readily as the gormless females they target. These guys aren't personally motivated to help YOU become confident with girls, tho that's how they suck you in. They are motivated for you to buy into their program(s)."

who gives a shit if these guys aren't personally motivated to help a specific individual become more confident with girls? Do you think universities personally want you to attend their programs or they want your money? You're naive if you believe anyone who offers a service or sells a product isn't motivated by money. However, that doesn't mean their service or product is no good. Plus you can watch and read about most of this stuff online for free.

"Just to be clear (before Neo freaks that I am attacking his religion): I'm not saying this PUA can't give you some ideas to try. Like I said, that video is a mix of ideas+manipulation--like any good sales technique. So, make sure in your further delving into this stuff that whatever changes you make is aligned with your personal integrity and fits with 'who you are'. These guys use NLP and all sort of of pseudo-psych to make their points and are VERY good at arguing their case. Be wary of people like this."

why would I freak out? The things I learned from PUA material constitutes, at most, maybe 40% of my game. The rest I learned from observing guys who are successful with girls and my own personal experience. So the PUA method is far from my religion. I think it's a good starting place for guys with little experience and for those with some game who want to take it to the next level.

[IndiReloaded]

Neo, my post wasn't for you. I give my opinions here free & freely. I think that Selke merely needs to be aware of the intent of these PUA people. He seems intelligent, so I'm sure he can connect the dots.

I will say that I agree there are *some* things in PUA that seem helpful for those who lack confidence. But there are also techniques that are offensive and absolutely do not work except on women who lack self-esteem. Your highlighter girl you bombed with, I suspect was of the class PUA fails on.

My PUA story: I was on a trip and went to the lounge for a drink and dinner. I had a very suave, nice-looking man approach me. I chatted with him, he did all the 'negs' etc. It was very amusing & I played along for a while. He did it right, it was only a few minutes and he asked for my number. At that point, I took him to a table away from the bar. I then gave him a detailed analysis of the techniques he tried and why it didn't work. I was very kind & respectful about it, did it privately, and told him what *would* have worked to truly gain my interest. On leaving, he sent me a drink (verbotten in PUA) with a note saying he was sorry he'd never get the chance to know me better, I sounded like a very interesting lady.

So, young Neo & Selke. Authentic >>> PUA anytime. But I see the need for the confidence to be able to demonstrate that authenticity. But its seems a lot of the techniques that some PUA people propose select for women who are insecure and feel the need to prove themselves to a guy. Quality women (and men) are secure in who they are and look for an equal, someone with self-respect and respects others. Too much PUA deals with things that erode this concept, IMO.

[Cbrider]

Your problem is so simple that you don't even see it. YOU ARE YOUR OWN WORST ENEMY. You shoot yourself down at EVERY opportunity that pops up. "I'm bad at talking to girls", "I have only had 3 girlfriends and none of them lasted more than 6 months", "I am a virgin..." - WHO THE **** CARES?

Misery LOVES company, and you are a beacon for it. Try telling yourself:

"I'm going to ask her out on a date", instead of "I'm bad at talking to girls."

"Here's my new long term girlfriend in front of me" instead of "I have only had 3 girlfriends and none of them lasted more than 6 months."

"I'm tired of being a virgin, lets change this tonight" instead of "I'm a virgin."

Do you see where I am going with this? You're pessimistic about yourself and that's a choice that YOU make. If there's any light for you, its that you will never be rejected because you never stepped out of the box.

You have my respect for passing on sleeping with her when she was drunk as a skunk. I think that's a little sleazy personally, and you will make a better impression if you pull it off while sober.

I don't agree with half the opinions here, I think she has a thing for you and I think you still have a chance at redemption before you fall out of the picture.

What are you going to do about it?

[NeoSeminole]

IndiReloaded says:

"Neo, my post wasn't for you. I give my opinions here free & freely. I think that Selke merely needs to be aware of the intent of these PUA people. He seems intelligent, so I'm sure he can connect the dots."

as expected, you didn't explain what about the video struck you as manipulative and loaded with inconsistencies You also failed to understand the crux of my post. What's the point of 'warning' the OP about PUAs or throwing in that you're "older" and "trained" to see these things? Nowhere did the guy in the video give a sales pitch and watching it doesn't cause any harm to the viewer. Your post comes across like someone trying to appear knowledgeable in order to satiate their ego.

My PUA story: I was on a trip and went to the lounge for a drink and dinner. I had a very suave, nice-looking man approach me. I chatted with him, he did all the 'negs' etc. It was very amusing & I played along for a while. He did it right, it was only a few minutes and he asked for my number. At that point, I took him to a table away from the bar. I then gave him a detailed analysis of the techniques he tried and why it didn't work. I was very kind & respectful about it, did it privately, and told him what *would* have worked to truly gain my interest. On leaving, he sent me a drink (verbotten in PUA) with a note saying he was sorry he'd never get the chance to know me better, I sounded like a very interesting lady."

cool, I'll keep this story in mind when I try to pick up middle-aged women, lol. Girls typically aren't as scornful b/c they haven't been burned as many times from years and years of poor choices.

"So, young Neo & Selke. Authentic >>> PUA anytime. But I see the need for the confidence to be able to demonstrate that authenticity. But its seems a lot of the techniques that some PUA people propose select for women who are insecure and feel the need to prove themselves to a guy. Quality women (and men) are secure in who they are and look for an equal, someone with self-respect and respects others. Too much PUA deals with things that erode this concept, IMO."

you obviously don't understand PUA material b/c it doesn't teach you confidence, no more than school teaches you confidence. It simply gives you the tools to become more successful. What a person does with that knowledge is dependent on the individual and doesn't reflect PUA techniques no more than the choices you make reflect the university you received your degree from.

[IndiReloaded]

Thank you, young unmarried 20-something year old.

I wasn't scornful at all, I was quite kind to him. Nor middle-aged. LOL. You didn't read my post & how this gentleman responded.

I'm deliberately not answering you b/c I choose not to. When you make enough money to afford my opinion, contact me and I might give you my analysis of the video. Until then, you will have to rely on my goodwill and charity for the information I choose to divulge.

[Mish]

oh yea i'm definitely in the friendzone after the shopping question. i can't even deny that fact anymore. i guess shit happens.
i texted her about the shopping thing and she's "looking forward to it" and said we should get drinks after she finishes work that day.

she just texted me "btw i hope you make good breakfast lol"

That sounds promising^

I think you should escalate the social physical contact during the drinks and if she is comfortable and doesn't resist the physical contact try to go for a kiss.

Things are going well by the sound of it, don't worry and good luck

[NeoSeminole]

IndiReloaded says:

"Thank you, young unmarried 20-something year old."

typical IndiReloaded response: "I'm older than you so therefore I know more!"

<rolls eyes>

the irony of an 'older, mature' adult using childish tactics to assert her credibility over a younger person. haha

"I wasn't scornful at all, I was quite kind to him. Nor middle-aged. LOL. You didn't read my post & how this gentleman responded."

you were scornful in your cynicism and mockery of the guy while he was just trying to talk to you. You mentioned how it was very amusing and you played along for a while. You even gave him a detailed analysis of the techniques he used and why they didn't work. Sorry but if a girl ever pulled that shit with me, I would laugh at her and walk away. I wouldn't even validate her with words.

by the way, I'm still waiting for you to explain what about the video struck you as manipulative and loaded with inconsistencies. Dem some pretty harsh words with no substance to back them up. Any excuse to avoid an explanation is simply an admittance on your part that you spoke before you thought and got caught

[IndiReloaded]

you were scornful in your cynicism and mockery of the guy while he was just trying to talk to you. You mentioned how it was very amusing and you played along for a while. You even gave him a detailed analysis of the techniques he used and why they didn't work. Sorry but if a girl ever pulled that shit with me, I would laugh at her and walk away. I wouldn't even validate her with words.

No Neo, I was kind. You have never experienced this, so you don't know what you are talking about. Its something your highlighter type girls can't be bothered with. I can understand why, you immediately devolve to insults when things aren't going your way.

You are a hypocrite, btw. You admit to "game" but couldn't handle when someone actual one-ups you & calls you on it. Of course you would walk away--your ego wouldn't permit anything else.

This is what you don't understand about what the gentleman did & why it was such a classy finish to our dance. I did him an immense favour, actually, and we did have a nice chat. But it was his choice to make certain incorrect assumptions. The outcome from that was his responsibility and he accepted it, much more gracefully than running away with his legs b/t his legs like you would apparently do. LOL.