The Racism Thread

[nomas]

Alexi..your last paragraph I agree with 100%. It's what I tried to say (among other things I tried to say) but maybe got lost somewhere along the many things I was trying to write.

Basically, we're in control. It's true that the majority of the minorities (pun intended) live in underprivileged neighborhoods and school districts, but that shouldn’t be an excuse to undermine your ambitions or to claim racism and discrimination when you don’t catch a break. Those are scapegoats often times. Yes, there are times when minorities are victims of someone not hiring them because of their race..but I think more often than not the race card is used as a tool.

This is why some would claim affirmative action is still necessary to give some opportunities to minorities to compete with the majority white population who have more resources available to them, the benefit of educated parents, as an example. I guess it balances the equation a little bit against those who would otherwise not give opportunities to minorities due to either stereotyping or the overwhelming number of qualified white people.

I’m with you, Alexi, as far as both agreeing and disagreeing with myself. I can find arguments to both side of this issue so I treat it one case at a time, I guess.

My biggest opinion would have to be that I think it’s all on me. I’m in control. But I bet that even Hispanics are a little bit more in a different category than blacks or Asians because we can sometimes get away with blending in because of our appearance. Blacks and Asians cannot hide their ethnicities as well among Anglos. Maybe their experience is different.

Freddie

[Zekk_T_Strife]

I tend to hold asians in higher regard than any other race. I've researched asian history to a major extent, african history to a minimal extent and hispanic history to a moderate extent. I adore asian history, japanese, chinese and mongolian history is all so remarkably fascinating. African history is remarkably boring with the exception of Haile Salassie but that's so recent in comparison. Hispanic history isn't all that bad, really good stuff when it comes to the spaniards first intrusion. But I digress.

As I said before, I've never partaken in or seen any racism except that against my own race. But that's probly because I'm typically not in scenarios where such blatant racism can occur. I'm not in essence racist, but I instantly lose all respect, or desire to consider a worthwhile human being, anyone who lives in this country without speaking english. True we're a melting pot and have no "official" language. But not learning to speak what nearly all of the current population speaks is just a truly ignorant way to let yourself be held back by nothing more than simple laziness. That and it really irks me how so many illegal aliens come into the country then demand more spanish speaking television and radio and recieve it. It's a disgusting part of our society but that's pretty much the only thing that really bothers me that's race related.....

Oh, and this hip hop fad. The music sucks and the flashy style is for children, I'm glad it's slowly dying out now.

[nomas]

Eric..I hope you do post your blog because I read it and I thought it was good. There's good food for thought in it and I also read the links you had to the Vincent Chin story and that was interesting too..good sociological issues and outcomes.

Zekk, Asian history dates back WAY WAY back because they pretty much started record keeping way ahead of westerners. Much of the prehispanic history was destroyed precisely by the spanish conquistadors converting the indigenous people as to eradicate their religions and their ways and replace them with their brand of Christianity. Not much is left of their old ways because it was either convert or die. I don't know what you've studied as far as African History but I find it hard to believe any people's history is boring unless the presentation is really bad. Still, it is a matter of opinion...But you digress me..

May I ask where you're from? I'm just curious where you live that you see only racism against white people. Is it an area where whites are the minority?..like where I live?

If it is somewhere similar to where I live, I'll tell you that you'd find a LOT of people who you would loose desire to consider a worthwhile human being because they don't speak english. You may be surprised to know, however, that the explanation to this is not always due to simple laziness. You have to understand that not everyone was brought up like yourself. Not everyone was given the opportunities you were given. You, my friend, are a supremely privileged individual, whether you know it or not...so it may be difficult to consider other situations.

My father can barely read and write spanish. He got a half assed elementary education...because the concern of the inhabitants of the little town where he lived were more concerned with working the land to survive another year rather than unrealistically trying to prepare a studious young pupil for a career in medicine.

There is an issue of education. When you don’t get it early on, it is ever more difficult to pick up a whole different language as an adult when you’re preoccupied with providing for your family…sometimes working two fulltime jobs.

Most of the immigrants I know are not exactly lazy, Zekk. HUGE misconception there. Most come to WORK. Not work in a cushy job inside an air-conditioned building…they don’t stand a chance in hell to get into a job like that without speaking English. They are out in the fields picking chilly or in factories, conveyor belts, construction sites with shovels and wheelbarrows, back breaking labor usually for little pay because the employers take advantage of the fact that they don’t have papers and are willing to work for a fraction of what the employers should legally be paying by law.

Oh, no, Zekk, my people are NOT lazy…but that’s what this thread is for..to dispel myths.

Going back to my dad…as I mentioned, he did not receive the opportunities of an education, but he’s not a stupid man. He really lost the opportunity to develop his intellectual potential, but he made do with what was dealt to him. He came and worked his ass off to give the next generation (me) opportunities. Needless to say I can speak English. I can hold my own with American ways of doing things…I at least have knowledge and resources to be able to compete with any white person in society, to put it broadly. I may be considered a worthwhile human being in your eyes because I can probably do anything you can do. I’m assimilated, so to speak. Now, it took him hard work and he’s not great..in fact he’s just plain bad, but he can communicate with a white person even if his English is not the best.

Now, I won’t say there aren’t a few bad apples. There ARE those Hispanics who screw the system and make the rest look bad..but that’s a minority of the minority. In fact..most of them are second generation, American born citizens…for illegal aliens make no demands because they know better…they know they have no rights here as aliens. Illegal aliens shoot for invisibility, not to make demands. The ones who screw the system are generally English speaking (worthwhile human beings). There are white people who do the same. Trailer trash/rednecks are part of the whites too, just like these Hispanics who screw the system are still Hispanic.

Your comment on the hip-hop fad reminded me about a part on American History-X where the skinhead is talking about “I hate that it is ‘cool’ to be black”. I’m not accusing you of being racist…just an observation I made…but I see your point..some of the hip-hop flashy styles are just silly to me too, but it doesn’t bother me that others like it any more than it bothers me that pants with a red rectangle next to a white rectangle make a pair of jeans worth three times as much as my Levi’s and somehow make you look better because they’re trendier….it’s one of those things where the six media giants dictate something that the people swallow right up and just buy into it without thought…but I see how your example is race related because it may be a case of popular overcompensation…but new genres of music have their moment…some last longer than others.

I appreciate your contribution, though, Zekk. Keep them coming. It’s what I want..to see it through all kinds of different eyes.

Freddie

[Illusional]

..where's the beer??

*looks around*

dammit, i'm in the wrong thread.

*casually walks out in search of this beer*

raverboy

[tooxshort]

here's my blog ...

rac·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

I read Justin's entry earlier and, in it, he had a reference to Vincent Chin. I didn't know who he was, but it prompted me to look him up on yahoo. And, there, I found out about this disturbing hate crime that happened over 20 years ago:

[url]http://us_asians.tripod.com/articles-vincentchin.html[/url]

This story reminded me of some asian kids that got beat up, on 19th and Taraval, by some white kids. They got pretty banged up. They were yelling racial remarks like "chink" and "gook." And continued to taunt these kids who didn't want any trouble in the least bit. They just wanted to get some dessert! Only one kid was arrested and charged. One out of fifteen! It pissed me off that shit like that can just be brushed off. I wanted, so badly, to round up some friends to go wreak havoc at Stern Grove (their hangout). But, it never happened. I wish it did, sometimes.

Here's the story on that:

"On June 6, 2003, Jeff, Tim, Sung, Ken, and Paul experienced a night they will never forget. Ken and Tim had just left Lowell High School’s graduation dance and called the others to meet them at the corner of 19th Avenue and Taraval in San Francisco’s Sunset District to grab some dessert. The boys did not know that between thirty and forty Caucasian teens from Sacred Heart High School were having a graduation party of their own—a keg party at Stern Grove. The police broke up the underage drinking party and chased the teens out of the park. Afterward, many of the teens went to Seniore’s Pizza, also near the corner of 19th Avenue and Taraval. Leaving the pizza shop and walking up the street, five of the Caucasian teens came across Jeff, Tim, Sung, Ken, and Paul as they attempted to enter the restaurant on the corner. The Caucasian teens yelled racial epithets towards the boys and poured a beer over Jeff ’s head. When asked why the Caucasian teens acted in such a manner, one of the teens responded: “Because you’re Gooks. Why? You wanna start something?”

The Caucasian teens attacked Jeff, Tim, Sung, Ken, and Paul in a vicious mob-style beating. Approximately fifteen Caucasian teens encircled Jeff, screamed words of racial hate, and kicked and punched him while he lay defenseless on the ground. Ken and Sung escaped across the street to the North. Paul and Tim assisted a semiconscious Jeff across 19th Avenue.

A smaller group of Caucasian teens gave chase and continued the attack across the street in front of the Citibank. An Asian-American man using the ATM machine attempted to intervene but was scared off. One of the Caucasian teens yelled at him: “You’re only helping them, because you’re one of them.” The beating continued until the police arrived and sent the Caucasian teens running in all directions.

Three Caucasian teens were arrested at the scene and only one was positively identified. A hate crime? Absolutely. A slam-dunk? Hardly. The single defendant (a minor) was quickly released from custody in violation of procedure because of his “connections” at juvenile hall."

"In addition to the investigation into the reported beating, cops are investigating whether one of the suspects, a 16-year-old, was improperly let go from the Youth Guidance Center after 10 hours in custody.

The released youth’s mother was reportedly a volunteer at the Youth Guidance Center. "

__________________________________________________ ________

Now, ain't that a bitch?

I'll say this much ... in San Francisco, I feel relatively safe from extreme racism. I do hold a deep contempt for stereotypical "persons" like the ones described above. It's not that frequent here, but if I was to go 100 miles north, east, or south, the people in those areas would probably wonder if I spoke any english. Even within our own city, it blows my mind that in a place so diverse in cultures, that racism can still exist. Yes, I'm a bit racist, myself. But I always give someone the benefit of the doubt, up front. I don't go out starting trouble with a certain race. In fact, the last time I ever punched someone in the face was because he said something along the lines of: "Go back to China!" And, of course, me not being Chinese contributed to me being pissed off. He didn't direct it to me, I'm sure. It was towards my group of friends and we were all together. But some people have to learn to keep their mouths shut. You can maybe not like me because of how I look at you or because I did something to you, but don't hate me because of where I'm from and let that be your basis for feeling that way.

I've seen the "surprised" look on peoples' faces when they find out that I speak perfect english. For example, I don't go up to a white person and say,"Gee, you hide your Irish accent so well!" It pisses me off. Pisses me the **** off. That's one thing I will fight for ... as long as there's stereotypical racist ****s out in this city, there's going to be justice coming from my fists. Hell yea, there's gonna be justice comin' from this mutha****a right here.

You go to another country ... let's say Ireland. The people out there would refer to me as American. Not flip, not chink, not gook, not ASIAN, but American. Look around us. We're not even considered American on our own soil. In America, we're all labeled as something else. But if we learned to just be American, together, it'd be all good.

And it doesn't seem that, anytime soon, the mass media will be able to accept asians as nothing more than a minority. Even with "Harold & Kumar", they promoted John Cho as "the asian guy from American Pie." There are a lot of asians who can sing just as well as any other American, but can't break the racial boundries. We're too stuck in this "can't speakah da engrish" stereotype, that automatically, people think our albums suck. Or our music sucks. We have to play a role. The role of Chinese restaurants, laundromats, and ninjas. Even Jin (BET freestyle champ) came out with a song "Learn Chinese." I know he probably did it to build the pride of Chinese folks, but it seemed almost like he was patronizing his race. Either that or Ruff Ryders played a part in marketing him that way. I'm Filipino. We're not known for any those job titles, but in other races' eyes, we're all the same. We're asian. Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Filipino, etc ... all the same in their eyes.

I remember discussing white girls with my friend. I wondered why it was all good for a white guy to date an asian girl, but a white girl (in 95% of the cases) won't go for an asian guy. And my friend replied "That's not true. Some white girls have a fetish for asian guys." I wondered why in the **** did it have to be a fetish? It's perfectly normal for a white/black/whatever males to date an asian female, but when a female of another ethnicity digs an asian male, it's a "fetish."

As a whole "United States," we're stuck behind enemy lines.

My skin is my sin in some ways.

I'm pretty tired right now, but if anything doesn't make sense, let me know, so I can correct it.

that's it ... I hope it doesn't offend anyone ... in ANY way

E

[Zekk_T_Strife]

I don't think hispanic people as a whole are lazy, I just think that seeing as much effort the average illegal alien puts into working many jobs and saving all the money, they could put a little effort into learning more than "yes" "please" and "thank you". But alas, I do not know their situations as you say, therefore its impossible for me to determine how hard it would be to do such a thing.

I live in the midwest, in Indiana. It isn't a center for racial hatred, but there are a few parts of town that are pretty much black only. I have to drive through it everyday to go to school, and I have to go to a mall in that area to pick up my orders for my store. Mostly I get through without a hitch, sometimes I'll get an inappropriate gesture or comment. I grew up in a very privelaged family, but I spent time in these kinds of areas enough to not be that one stuck up white guy saying "oh my word" everytime a black person lunges like he's going to attack me. I can usually just brush off any slurs or gestures that come my way, it's no big deal. Here's the way I think of it:

I am white. I love the fact that I'm white, I'm PROUD that I'm white. Does that mean I look down upon other races? No. I'm just glad I was born into the body I'm in, I've gotten used to it and broken it in quite nicely. If someone chooses to insult me because I'm white (usually I get insulted because I have a rich family, but that applies to the same principle) it makes me smile. Whether they think it's an insult or not, being singled out for being white or having wealthy parents (they don't seem to understand that their money does not equal my money) isn't an insult for me. These insults, in essence, make me feel grateful instead.

And yes, I know the natives of mexico had their records burned. But I know there has to be records that survived. China had their nations libraries burned to the ground half a dozen times but many things survived. They destroyed the writings of Confucius three times and still we see nearly all of his works today should you know where to search. I haven't finished researching the asian course of events, but I'm sure someday I'll come to hispanic history and I'll try to find such books. I'm excited to read about the entire story behind Pancho Villa. There's a man who mastered the final law of power.

[Fawn]

Here goes.

I live in London, Ontario, Canada. I am not a racist (atleast I don't think I am). I've lived in London my entire life and even though its not a big city (population 360 000+), its a very diverse place.

Well, lets start from the beginning to show how I have grown up to form my opinions on people.
My mother is a sweet person. A hard worker. She was born on a farm out in a small town called Arva, which borders London. She basically lived in an "all white" society. Pretty much surrounded by "rednecks." Dad, on the other hand, was raised in London. He remembers when the city used to be be predominatly white. He has always had friends of all races and religions.

Then my parents met and 12 years after they got married, I was born (took them freaking long enough!). I am an only child and have led a pretty sheltered life. In public school of almost 1000 students, the majority was 75% white. In my grade, there was only one black kid and one Italian kid. No one ever took to racism and it was frowned upon by everyone. Actually those two kids were part of the most popular group as well.

Highschool, there was much more of a diversity. There was a bit of racism that went on. Some groups stayed seperate (ex. cafeteria) but eventually came to the fact that were all the same. Racism was not really that big of a factor. It was more of a popularity thing and groups of preps, goth, etc.

Its unfortunate that even when we do forget racism, we all begin another form of seperation by creating labels. Labelling people has always been the main issue throughout highschool. What a crappy four years that was.

In college it wasn't an issue and again labelling was the main concern.

Now, my mom, since she was predominatly surrounded in this "red neck" society has some issues. She doesn't like that black people moved into the neighbourhood and she's extremely homophobic. Sometimes she surpises me though.

Myself, I've only dated white people. For some reason I just never found myself attracted to another race. Then, I met my current bf, who's arabic. I was scared that my mother would judge him, but she surprised me yet again. She and my dad really like him and seemed to be adoring the fact that he's so smart. lol. I love the experience and culture that I have learned from him. I've even been taught a few arabic words (which I can't spell though.lol) and I find that even though the society he lived in was very demanding; I like how he's embracing the freedom in canada.

hmm... I've wrote enough for now. But thats just some background on me.

[nomas]

I'm noticing something:

The trend seems to be that with each generation, we get more and more tolerant.

I believe this trend. I believe we are evolving..becoming more educated and striving for treating everyone the same..but sometimes we're to concious of this and overcompensate and rather than treating someone the same, we give preferential treatment.

Racism is ending..but discrimination, I guess, we can treat as a separate issue.

Shifting a little bit, as I had mentioned..racism itself seems to be decreasing more and more, and it may be due in part to the fact that some people really made some noise on the matter. Now I believe it's much more dangerous for homosexuals..especially male homosexuals. Hate crimes against these guys are pretty vicious and, though I don't have any official numbers, I believe happen in the gay community to a greater percentage of the people than racism-based hate crimes against a race of people. Also, I think that women have had it really bad too. I went to see the vagina monologues and they recited all these facts that raise your eyebrows. We just are so used to the way things are that we don't realize what a bum deal women get. If I was to become really involved in an activist organization I'd probably do something for women. Even though the feminist movement made strides..there's still plenty to do, I believe, to change some traditional perceptions that don't allow women equality with men in a lot of things.

Freddie

[BillyGalbreath]

...Racism is ending..but discrimination, I guess, we can treat as a separate issue....

Racism is not ending. People just dont talk about it much anymore. People are uninterested in it anymore, so the media stops covering most of it. Thus is seems like less is going on. But in fact. I live in a world full of racism. I see it everyday of my life. I am part of it alot of the time (not the hater, but I am the hated). My area is like a war zone. And like all video games, we are seperated by color (ie, blue vs. red). Out colors are permanantly marked on our skind and we will live this way forever. No matter how much you try to make everyone equal and make racism go away, it is always there and it will never go away. At least not in my parts. Things here are so bad even black people are being labeled white's just because they dont hate the whites. Example: My friend from high school, Smokey, he is black and he always stood up for me when I would get hated on by anyone - including hate acts by blacks. He would fight for me. He was a strong guy and I was, well, a nerd. But we were friends, and eventually the blacks started to hate him just as much as they hated me. They would call him things like "white lover" and all kinds of racial slur.

Racism is very much alive, and its not going to go away. It may dicipate from your small cities, but here in Houston it will forever live on and eventually it will kill us all.

[Zekk_T_Strife]

Racism is very much alive, and its not going to go away. It may dicipate from your small cities, but here in Houston it will forever live on and eventually it will kill us all.

A very melodramatic statement, but I agree more with nomas. Compare a kid today to their grandparents. Older people are statistically more racist than our generation for simple reason, it was more accepted back then. They grew up where white was still considered the standard and all else was subhuman. My grandfather still calls black people "jiggaboo"s. Have you noticed the trend though? As a nation, we discriminate against a group of people mercilessly then after so long we completely flip sides and embrace that culture. In 30 years black culture went from something oppressed and shoved aside to a near plague oozing out of every media outlet. Same thing with homosexuality. Gays have always been looked upon as less than human (the whole gay hearts pump black blood garbage). Now where are they? Media stars. Homosexuality has been embraced by many and it has made nation headlines. So are gays and blacks the cool kids on the block now and everyone loves them? No. There will always be people who are quick to judge, people who want to blame their problems on a race "oppressing" them, or people that just find it easy to blanket all the bad things on one particular group. Race becomes a victim because it's so damn easy to see immediately.

Racism is on it's deathbed, but that doesn't mean racists will stop existing. Racism indicates a large number of people affected by differences in ones race. I don't think thats as big of a problem as it was 30 years ago, hell even 10.

P.S. The only thing I REALLY dislike about generalizations is how often they come to fruition.

[Illusional]

*peeks in*

dammit, wrong thread again

raverboy

[nomas]

So yesterday I had some busy work to get to work on..organizing CDs and the such, so I turned on the TV and was watching MTV, I admit it.... anyway it was "The Real World".. The episode was about this black dude and a couple of white friends who were at some bar or club or something and then they're all in separate directions and the black dude gets approached by cops and they start to pat them down and they say they received an anonymous tip about him possibly carrying a gun. So he's pretty pissed off because we later find out that this sort of thing has happened to him over 20 times..so the white guys are trying to calm him down outside of the club and he's pissed because they're like not seeing it his way, they're like it's not a big deal and so there are two sides: White guys can't relate to it because it's never happened to them and the black guy feels like they're being insensitive at them brushing it off as if it was an isolated case.

Both sides were presented pretty well and it was hard to "choose a side" so to speak, but I felt I sided more with the white guys. They were more calm and composed and trying to communicate while the black dude was pretty histerical. But then again, you cannot be calm and composed in the face of being the victim of an injustice and they unaffected parties weren't sympathetic to that.

I don't know.. did anyone else see this episode? Your thoughts?

Freddie

ps. On a side note..I think some of these things that happen to them are fixed. Too many coincidences and "interesting incidents" take place, me thinks.

[squirrley]

I watched the first few episodes of the new one. But missed this one. I like the black dude, gay or not. But Ive also watched the Real World AFTER the show was through, and come to find out, the show DOES NOT show everything in its entirity and leaves things out on purpose. So many of those people who are on the show, when they see later what was left out, theyre pissed off. They glamorize the show for obvious reasons, but the whole truth at times is left out. So its hard to base opinions on issues such as that knowing thats what they do(MTV).

But I know theyve had racial issues plenty of times in the past on those shows. The idea is to pull people who are totally clueless on other aspects of life, color, gays, whatever, put them to the test of living with these people to see how they interact. As a matter of fact, the black dude is gay, wouldnt know it. But the first couple of episodes he confided in 2, but didnt know how to tell the white guys who became friends with immediately. When the guys found out, they were cool about it. But its the coming together of people who share ideas and new experiences.

It will be interesting to see what develops over that episode, at least in the end of the show when they do their reunion and talk about we'll get a better idea of what happened.

[blue]

im not able to catch the show during the week, i always watch it on the weekends so that i can play catch up!

[jane]

ok.. Nomas my friend, I too live in the SouthWest.. and I have to tell you that racism is indeed here. I live in San Diego.. and I also live about 20 minutes from the Mexican border... infact, my "X" is a Border Patrol Agent.

If you ask him, he will tell you that Mexicans shouldnt live here. I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS!! I lived in Mexico and I think that Mexican Heritage, thier way of life and the whole social background is wonderful. People from Mexico are sweet, generous and outgoing people but unfortuately.. just like everwhere else people from ALL races and backgrounds can be bad people.

Crime in San Diego can be related to two things... Gang fights ... and Mexicans that need money in order to help their family in mexico.. its sad.

Mexican families would rather spend $10,000 stuffing thier 3 and 4 year old children in dash boards and letting them cross the desert alone in order to move here. It breaks my heart. I hear about people everyday that are dead ..left in the back of an 18 foot trailer to die after spending ALL OF THEIR hard earned money in order to move here.

The thing of it is .. I am white... I do have an X that works as a Border Patrol Agent.. I do live in a mostly Hispanic neighborhood.. and my nieghbors ... HATE ME becuase of what my roommate does for work? I speak spanish and have had many convos with some of my neighbors but most of the time the scream.. " LA IMMIGRA" .. and me and walk away.

How exactly is that supposed to make me feel? I LIVED IN MEXICO! I have no issues AT ALL yet because I am associated with soemone who has a job that requires him to do the law.. its reverse racism yes?

I grew up in a house full of racists... I come from a big Italian family from New York..

Ok.. what was your first thought? My family is in the mob? Funny, thats what everyone thinks. WEll.. she IS Italian.. and her family is from NEW YORK!

That shit pisses me off. I AM NOT A RACIST. AT ALL. My friends come from all religious, ethnic and different sexual prefernces for a reason. WE ALL LIVE IN THIS WORLD TOGETHER! It is not ME AGAINST THEM.
God help those people who think they are better.