Why don't guys initiate contact first?

[smackie9]

I have asked guys out before....no big deal. Never was turned down.

[CAM]

Feminism has nothing to do with dating practices. It focus is political rights for women, like the right to vote and to protest, equal pay, equal job and educational opportunities, to protect women from sexual harassment, domestic violence, etc.

What you describe is only one set of issues in feminism. Exercising power within relationships is also an issue addressed by feminism. For awhile feminism had a much more prominent role in relationships as women, primarily late Baby Boomers and Gen Xers, came of age and started asserting themselves. Frankly, it was a pain in the ass because some the 1990s stuff was total phony BS. The first wave of feminism (and some second wave) dealt with real issues. I think younger women today are focused on the original (and important) core issues addressed in your msg. For the most part, it is a "live and let live, just treat me fairly" msg and it often goes unspoken. Most people have become libertarians of a stripe about most things. Post second wave feminism might have been the last ideology (and one that some of my former fellow grad students are trying to spread--often, unsuccessfully).

[smackie9]

I may correct.... most men don't want women to step up and ask them out or be sexually aggressive because they view these women as easy or men feel emasculated because their role is being taken away from them. So damned if we do and damned if we don't. There is no make you men happy lol.

[Boisdevie]

I may correct.... most men don't want women to step up and ask them out or be sexually aggressive because they view these women as easy or men feel emasculated because their role is being taken away from them. So damned if we do and damned if we don't. There is no make you men happy lol.

My current GF made the move on me when she said 'if you're ever in my neck of the woods lets get together'. I was in her neck of the woods funnily enough a few days later. And she climbed into my bed not the other way around. I have enough self confidence not to feel emasculated if a woman makes the running.
Back to sexism and equality. Nobody so far has answered why total equality isn't possible. I am happy to open the door for a woman because I have good manners. I am also happy to open a door for anyone regardless of what they have in their pants.

[smackie9]

That's fine, but there are those who view it differently because of the roles instilled in them growing up.

Hey I'm not against women asking guys out.....I did it myself. I encourage it.

[Boisdevie]

That's fine, but there are those who view it differently because of the roles instilled in them growing up.

Hey I'm not against women asking guys out.....I did it myself. I encourage it.

Yes, but once you're a grown up you're allowed to think for yourself surely? Imagine this scenario - we always have racism because the parents of the parents of our parents were racist.
I'm the child of pretty middle of the road parents yet my values are nothing at all like those of my parents - not in all but in many respects.

[smackie9]

Only in a perfect world.......

[ssh]

I didn't extrapolate anything, bro. I stated a fact. You did the extrapolating.

My point stands: If a guy really likes a girl, 99 times out of 100, he will ask her out. If you want to argue with this, go ahead. You'll be wrong.

I was the one who picked up my current boyfriend. I added him on facebook, struck up conversations, got his number and finally proposed sleeping together. He didn't show any interest in me before we slept together, but guess what- three weeks after we first had sex, he wanted to jump into a relationship with me. Even though I was moving a 20 hour train-ride away from him. We've been together for 7 months now. However, I do wonder sometimes if it was not smart of me to do all that in the beginning, even though I know we would've never been together if it weren't for me initiating contact. I made a thread about this, about whether I was an exception or if I am the rule to which you're referring.

[dem862]

Some girls ask guys out, some girls don't. Some guys like girls who ask them out, some guys don't. Do what you are comfortable with. If the other person doesn't like it, then you are not compatible anyway.

[smackie9]

Some girls ask guys out, some girls don't. Some guys like girls who ask them out, some guys don't. Do what you are comfortable with. If the other person doesn't like it, then you are not compatible anyway.

[bulrush]

Smackie gave some great advice. Guys need a green light, something that a potential girlfriend would say, which is NOT something a friend would say. So I often tell the girl to say this to the boy: "So, I'm single, are you going to ask me out on a date?" Using the word "date" is critical as it shows she's interested in more than being just a friend. If you don't say "date", you will be friend-zoned.

[bulrush]

I may correct.... most men don't want women to step up and ask them out or be sexually aggressive because they view these women as easy or men feel emasculated because their role is being taken away from them. So damned if we do and damned if we don't. There is no make you men happy lol.

And most men aren't as confident as I am, though some fake it pretty well. I like an assertive woman who asks me out and pays for a date sometimes. It's very refreshing. But then I support equal rights for women, including in the dating world. Just because I'm confident, doesn't mean I want a submissive woman. I just get tired of being treated like an ATM machine, or a piece of meat without feelings, whose main purpose is to buy stuff for a woman. I don't like an imbalance of effort. If a woman wants to date me she has to either a) admit she's submissive (shows good communication, which is important to me), or b) pay for half the dates. I don't want to be the only one making an effort her. I want teamwork. And boy, is it hard to find a team player in America today!

But if a woman just plain tells me she's submissive, then I have no problem getting the ball rolling. It's also an issue of communication.

The other thing I wanted to comment on is women's rights. Yes I support equal rights for women. But if women, as a group, don't even pay for half the dates, how can men take them seriously? This is a very valid question. As a group, they say one thing (they want equal rights) but do another (they refuse to do equal work in the dating world). It does not compute for me. While I, as a man, left my comfort zone and gotten very comfortable with my emotions, women, in general, have not started paying for more dates. I don't see equal effort here, and the women are lacking. (Only about 10% of the women I date pay for any date at all.) It's very frustrating trying to find a liberated woman in Michigan who is not just angry at everyone.

[sadie_genie]

The other thing I wanted to comment on is women's rights. Yes I support equal rights for women. But if women, as a group, don't even pay for half the dates, how can men take them seriously? This is a very valid question. As a group, they say one thing (they want equal rights) but do another (they refuse to do equal work in the dating world). It does not compute for me. While I, as a man, left my comfort zone and gotten very comfortable with my emotions, women, in general, have not started paying for more dates. I don't see equal effort here, and the women are lacking. (Only about 10% of the women I date pay for any date at all.) It's very frustrating trying to find a liberated woman in Michigan who is not just angry at everyone.

Yes, feminism is about having equal rights and respect but it isn't about turning women into men. In fact feminism takes serious consideration of the differences between men and women. For example, the right to contraception and abortion and punishment for rape have been supported by feminists on the basis of the biological difference between men and women. The dating/courting world also follow the same logic of female/male biological difference. Males are biologically wired to court his desired mate and females are biologically wired to desire courting and protection from her potential mate. This courting process is what creates genuine chemistry and attraction.

[smackie9]

Some girls ask guys out, some girls don't. Some guys like girls who ask them out, some guys don't. Do what you are comfortable with. If the other person doesn't like it, then you are not compatible anyway.

I agree with this. You guys can poke a stick at this topic all you want....it all just boils down to personal preference and expectation. I personally believe the modern man would like to see more women step up and ask men out, but you will have those purest pooping on that.

[bulrush]

Males are biologically wired to court his desired mate and females are biologically wired to desire courting and protection from her potential mate. This courting process is what creates genuine chemistry and attraction.

I guess I partially disagree, because I think conscious thinking can override biological drives/instincts. But, to each his own. I merely expressed frustration because I can't find many women who want to be equal, but different, parts of a team. That's simply how I date.