Hi all, newbie nees help BAD....

[Prodigal]

Hi Never4got (hello to you too, Misombra!),

First of all, I don't see how anyone who read all of that could NOT see how this is hard for you. I would think somebody to be cold-hearted almost if they heard your story, to know it to be true, and not see how it is hard.

It has been a little hard for me to respond because honestly, it's a bit personal because I see connections personally to what I'm going through (mine is a lot less complicated, but some things are similar). So, here goes.

Misombra is being incredibly logical in this situation. I think her advice holds great merit. I mean, you're both married and you both have children with other people. Is it worth hurting other people for this, something that may not even work out (and if it did, would cause a lot of despair)? That's definitely the first question to ask yourself.

It hurts so damned bad, doesn't it? Here is somebody very trustworthy (and believe me, misombra is one of the most sensible I've seen) telling you to go against your heart. This is a first, but I firmly (but politely) disagree with misombra.

Without looking at the kids or anything, here it is: it's a girl that you have been attracted to since day 1. It materialized into a relationship, you guys fell in love, and it seems that you never fell out of love. I think that says something. Even after you got married, you still thought about this girl you haven't seen in years. I think that's saying a LOT. You're apparently not happy in your situation. Although you have a stable family, it looks like it isn't what you want. But what am I to say your feelings? You know better than any of us; I'm trying to get you to think about it purely within yourself.

But going by deduction, why else would you put yourself through all this pain? You apparently still have feelings (and very strong ones, at that) for Judy. Do you feel the same connection to your wife? If not, I feel like it's cheating her. And it's cheating yourself. What is the point if you're married to someone and you're always thinking about some other girl? That isn't fair, is it? It's fair to nobody, and it's not fair to Judy or her husband because they are the same way.

So without looking at the kids, the decision is a no-brainer, right? Your heart is apparently telling you to go for Judy. But once kids come into play, I'm not sure. Here's where my thoughts begin to converge once again with misombra. I think there's a certain responsibility attached to having kids. You have kids, that's a commitment. You made that commitment, and it really, really is not fair to the kids to do this.

Sorry, I'll add more later... have to go now (I've been writing for about 20 minutes, didn't think it'd take this long).

[Tone]

Wow...just wow... your story would make for a great movie but the ending would be very tricky

I'm sorry to hear about it all and I have no idea what I'd do in your situation... Misombra and Prodigal both make very very great points, please keep us updated.

[Never4Got]

Hi Never4got (hello to you too, Misombra!),

First of all, I don't see how anyone who read all of that could NOT see how this is hard for you. I would think somebody to be cold-hearted almost if they heard your story, to know it to be true, and not see how it is hard.

It has been a little hard for me to respond because honestly, it's a bit personal because I see connections personally to what I'm going through (mine is a lot less complicated, but some things are similar). So, here goes.

Misombra is being incredibly logical in this situation. I think her advice holds great merit. I mean, you're both married and you both have children with other people. Is it worth hurting other people for this, something that may not even work out (and if it did, would cause a lot of despair)? That's definitely the first question to ask yourself.

It hurts so damned bad, doesn't it? Here is somebody very trustworthy (and believe me, misombra is one of the most sensible I've seen) telling you to go against your heart. This is a first, but I firmly (but politely) disagree with misombra.

Without looking at the kids or anything, here it is: it's a girl that you have been attracted to since day 1. It materialized into a relationship, you guys fell in love, and it seems that you never fell out of love. I think that says something. Even after you got married, you still thought about this girl you haven't seen in years. I think that's saying a LOT. You're apparently not happy in your situation. Although you have a stable family, it looks like it isn't what you want. But what am I to say your feelings? You know better than any of us; I'm trying to get you to think about it purely within yourself.

But going by deduction, why else would you put yourself through all this pain? You apparently still have feelings (and very strong ones, at that) for Judy. Do you feel the same connection to your wife? If not, I feel like it's cheating her. And it's cheating yourself. What is the point if you're married to someone and you're always thinking about some other girl? That isn't fair, is it? It's fair to nobody, and it's not fair to Judy or her husband because they are the same way.

So without looking at the kids, the decision is a no-brainer, right? Your heart is apparently telling you to go for Judy. But once kids come into play, I'm not sure. Here's where my thoughts begin to converge once again with misombra. I think there's a certain responsibility attached to having kids. You have kids, that's a commitment. You made that commitment, and it really, really is not fair to the kids to do this.

Sorry, I'll add more later... have to go now (I've been writing for about 20 minutes, didn't think it'd take this long).

Prodigal.....

Of course that's what I want to hear.... I actually have her phone number right here next to me.......but for some reason, can't/won't dial the number......I want SO DAMNED BAD to talk to her, but I'm almost sure what will/would happen if I do......

I had someone today tell me to just let it go for awhile and let things cool down emotionaly for myself and her and then make a decsion......thing is, it's already been since the 24th of March this year and the feelings seem stronger now than they have since we were actually together.

Aside from all the hell that would become my life and all the hell that my kids, her kids and our spuses would go through is.......after 20+ years......is my heart and my mind being true to me or am I still stuck back then??? What I mean is, I know for absolute fact, I love her as much as ever as the person I knew and looks......well, let's just say I've seen recent picture from my cousin and time has been very nice to her.........what scares me is, do I even know her as a person today? Does she know me? How much has she changed as a person and how much have I?

I believe I've deduced it down to a few things though.....1) I have to consider first and foremost my kids. 2) I have to meet the son I didn't know I had.

Those are the 2 "for sure things". Beyond that though....it gets shaky at best....I had a long talk with both my parents this morning......I hate laying this on them......their both in their 70's and they don't need this BS, but, I had to get their thoughts.......after all was said and done, they both agreed that I need to do what I feel in my heart will make me happy in the long run. Mom even said, if you're going to hold Judy up on this pedistal for the rest of your life.......you're not being fair to Jen (my wife) or to myself and that I might even be better off by myself if things don't work out either way because she said she's known for years that nobody would/could ever replace Judy in my heart.

I'm now thinking I HAVE to sit my wife down very soon and tell her first about my son, and then about what/how I'm feeling what has been said by Judy. This is going to be very hard though and I dread it and am almost certain where/how it will end up......I don't love her any less......In my heart though, I've always loved Judy more and told her about that problem a LONG time ago. Problem is.......I don't know how to go about this.....

I'm just really screwed up over this.......am I being stupid??? Someone slap me if I am......should I just try to cram all this away in my heart and mind again???? Nobody's been hurt so far.........

[indigosoul]

First of all, I HAVE to say it: ANOTHER ONE?! WTF???

There, OK. This is in reference to another post I made about the frequency of these kinds of posts... Not a criticism at all, just wondering what in the world is happening w/all these requited-love-denied stories.... its like some kinda cosmic soulmate crisis or something...

OK, my response. My brain agreed w/Miso, but my heart agrees w/your parents & Prodigal. Even considering your children (how old are they, BTW?) if you are going to be miserable, this will eventually affect everyone else. I would seriously consider what your parents say; they've been around the block & have the years of experience to know what is important in life. And, tho raising functional children is VERY important (I'v said this before), if your kids are almost adults, then I think the impact will be less than if they were younger. Oh yes, they'll be hurt, but not the same as when they are young & need you more.

Things that I factored into this response: how long you & she have felt this way (and therefore how likely you will continue to feel this way), how old your children are, how your wife is already aware of your history, how everyone will feel IN THE LONGTERM.

Hope this helped. Good luck.

[Tone]

My brain agreed w/Miso, but my heart agrees w/your parents & Prodigal.

Exactly how I feel. Whatever happens is what was meant to be, no matter how difficult the journey to get there is.

[Prodigal]

To the same quote that Tone quoted from indigosoul. To bring it down to the very essentials, this does become an argument of mind and heart. When it comes to love and relationships, which one should you follow?

I think that for most of us, we would say to follow the heart. I mean, why do something logical if it won't leave you happy?

However, your situation has many more facets, more complexities that blur the black and white of the mind and heart.

The children are a major issue here. They don't have anything to do with this; deciding to go with Judy would undoubtedly hurt them very badly. However, you say that your feelings have grown even stronger since then. You talk about Judy like you have very deep feelings for her. Yet you talk about your wife as if she's not even close to you. Like she's just another roadblock; just a wrench to throw in the works. It's telling me that what is keeping you to your wife is the security that comes from being with her. The light in which you talk about her seems to convey the feeling of "she's a great wife and she is great as a mother and helping raise the family with me"... which is good, but does it make you happy? As in, your closest wants fulfilled? My guess would be no, because there seems to be this rift between your wife and Judy. Your wife is great to you, but I don't think you LOVE her. I mean, you love her for the reasons I said, but it's not... I'm really trying to avoid using the word 'love' here.

I think that in your heart, you love your wife in a different way than Judy. But it's switched: it seems you love your wife as you would a great friend, someone who's always been there for you, whereas you love Judy in a way you would a significant other. Yet the roles are switched: The best friend is your wife and your true desire is on the outside looking in.

This ultimately comes down to your decision in this battle. It's a battle between selfishness and selflessness. Your selfless side is saying to stay with your wife, for the children and whatnot. Your selfish side is saying that the only way that YOU will be happy is if you go with Judy.

Either case, the repercussions are potentially lethal. If you go with Judy, the consequence is very blatant. Apparently it breaks the security that you have now, not to mention it hurts everyone in this situation, including you because you don't want to hurt your wife. If you stay with your wife, then that would be like settling. You would be settling for 'second-best' in your heart, when the best could be gotten, albeit through a lot of pain. Your heart wouldn't be truly happy because you are not with the one that you want to be with. And the thing that hurts the MOST is that she IS attainable. It isn't like there is no hope.

I've tried to be the least biased that I could be, and it was tough. My last statement is my personal opinion, something I try to live by. And, it's completely biased if applied to this situation. So if you don't want to read it, it's fine. If you do, I'm going to put a break between this and the statement just in case.





__________________________________________________ ______________________
My worst fear in life is to settle. That in things that are important to me, not to settle for anything than what I want the most. If I find the one who makes me most happy, who I feel the greatest connection to (that I feel), then I will go for her. It's her, or it's nobody. There is no settling, there is no clean compromise.

[ALovelyLady86]

I actually agree 110% with misombra on this...
You have to remember this was a long time ago, and the feelings you guys had for each other were then, not now. even with what she said at the wedding, you cant take that into real consideration because she looked at you the same way she did those years ago. You arent that same person. People change so much during their lives that she may not be the same girl you knew and loved back then.
This actually reminds me of my ex's situation with his ex wife.
They met when they were young, were together for 5 years... it was his first love... well she cheated.. she got pregnant and ran off... never to return to him for an entire year. Suddenly she comes back with a child and he thinks its his.. he had just gotten out of a relationship with a girl and thought it was meant to be that they get married and be a family... so they did. They ran off and were married. Things didnt go well... they both had changed so much in that year, that they couldnt stand each other. The more they talked and got to know the new them, the more they hated one another. They thought that because things were so amazing in the beginning, that they would be again. And that since they could have a family things would be fullfilled. They were wrong.

[indigosoul]

LovelyLady, I think you could be right that things could go bad if this is all based on feelings from many years ago. They may not really know each other anymore & this could be mostly fantasy...

Somehow, tho, I think that Prodigal's response isn't meant for just Never4got... and its NOT based on some old, unmaintained relationship....

[Never4Got]

Well......he's an update....

Took everyones advice and arranged for the boys to stay at a friends house last night so I could talk to my wife. She arrived home around 7 and asked where the boys were, told her they were staying at a friends. She was all happy and wanted to go out. I told her perhaps later, but, I had something important I needed to talk about first. She said OK, but she wanted to shower so come talk in the bath while she was showering.

So now we're in the bathroom, she's in the shower and I told her......I found out just recently that I have a son I didn't know about.........silence.......she didn't say a word so I proceeded to tell her that he's 20 and that I really think I need to meet him......silence.....

The first words out of her mouth were......."It's with Judy isn't it?" She said nobody had told her a thing, she just figured and that all along she figured Judy had not told me the truth. She asked the obligitory "have you two seen, or been seeing each other" question to which I told her no and explained how this all came about. She said she wanted to talk to my cousin's wife Diane to verify all this. We have never really been around my cousins Chuck and Diane since they live down in the area by Judy and having lived away for the first years, she never really even met Diane. I told her she could, but didn't think it was a real good idea since her and Judy were friends. Of course, that made her want to even more (stupid ass me....).

So, Jen calls Chuck and Dianes house..........Jen immeadiately has a hostile attitude and voice and wants to know "what the hell is going on". I left the room and picked up an extension. Diane tells her what Judy told her (leaving out some parts) and tells my wife that she thinks I need to meet Jonathon. Diane even comes forward and says we could do it at their house. Jen is pretty much against this already I can tell but then says "Ok....as long as that ***** is nowhere around".........Things went downhill from there......

To make a long story/fight short, my wife has now told me that she won't allow it. If I do go meet him, or if she hears/finds out that I even speak to Judy or Jonathon, I can pack up my stuff and get the hell out. Beyond that, she's also forbid me to talk to my cousins or go see them......

A bad situation.......just became worse......

[indigosoul]

Of course it got worse. You know you're gonna have to walk through fire on this, no matter what you decide. Question is, where will YOU be when you come out the other side...

Personally, I think you're past the point of no return. Nothing is gonna put things back to how they were before. The moment you spoke, you closed a door and perhaps opened another. The hardest thing in life is to be true to yourself. I wish you well.

[Prodigal]

Indigosoul said what I wanted to say perfectly. I really could not have said it any better.

I second indigosoul, and say the same. I wish you well... I mean that with the deepest sincerity and compassion. It takes a lot of courage and resolve to act upon what seemed from, what seemed from the start, your will.

[misombra]

i feel the same as the last two. it's not easy to be honest and true. keep us informed...

[Never4Got]

Well, here's where things stand......

The talking has ceased. Period. I mean there's general talk about the kids and shopping, etc., but that's it. Yesterday she went out with her friend whom just began divorce proceedings with her husband, they went to a club to see a band, then I don't know but she got home at around 3AM. Got up this AM to go to work at 9 and never said a word.

Meanwhile, I decided to proceed with making arrangements to see my son. Talked to Dinae yesterday and she told me there's no way it will happen unless both Judy and Jonathon are there. Jonathon wants his mother there Diane said as he has no idea what to expect and he even told Diane that he believes we (Judy and I) need to talk too as it appears he's wondering why it's taken this long for us to meet.

That was pretty much word for word from Diane and she's not one to lie. From that I'm begining to wonder if perhaps Judy has laid some blame on me for not meeting before.....could be interesting......

Oh, and in all honesty, Diane did correct me.......(I talked to her a LONG time and told her what's going on here and how hard this all is)......she reminded me that I DID meet Jonathon.........at Judy's wedding. Judy's Mom had him and Diane brought him over to the table..........none of us had any idea at that point although I am begining to understand that I am either a big dope or something because Charles & Diane and a lot of other people are now coming out and saying that they always thought Jonathon looked, acted and moved a lot like me....(He was a great H.S. athlete especially in Basketball and Baseball........I still hold my H.S.'s records in points per game basketball and ERA, won/lost record for pitchers......LOL!) I wish I could have been a part of all of that.......

[misombra]

good for you. and good luck.

[shh!]

Wow, look! Someone posted a novel, but sadly no summary. I wonder when the abridged version will be out?

:-)