In love with second cousin, Perth WA help?

[IndiReloaded]

More like copying/pasting from a website.

[url]http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbhdjm/courses/b242/InbrDrift/InbrDrift.html[/url]

Oh. Lol. Well, I've pasted my share from wikipedia & Mish has a lifetime subscription.

But, that site is great! I had no idea they described this with an "inbreeding coefficent". I wonder if the OP has calculated theirs yet?

"Well, I'm certainly interested in dating you, but you'll have to wait until I calculate our Inbreeding Coefficient... just a moment."

[Mish]

I've read that herediatry diseases spread a lot easier through inbreeding, also less potential to acquire various immunities for the offspring ussually more readily available outside the family.

[Lipp]

It's curious that these risks from breeding exist though. Wouldn't the small family groups of early humans during the Pleistocene period of time mean that incest would occur regularly?

[IndiReloaded]

Well, I suppose its simple selection, Lipp. If there IS inbreeding, then those offspring who end up with deleterious gene combinations would die. Or be killed (ie. infanticide).

And some combinations can be beneficial under the right circumstance. There can be a type of 'dosage effect'. Sickle cell anemia actually confers protection from malaria infection for those who carry one copy of the gene (heterozygotes), but is deadly for those who get both (homozygous recessive).

So, here's the mind blower that also touches on that Tabula Rasa/Determinism thread: its not just the genes you get, its not just the environment they get exposed to. Its how much of a gene you get (and when its expressed & in what context) that also affects your phenotype.

This is why we desperately NEED some IT ppl who are trained in biology. We aren't going to be able to keep all those parameters in our head, its going to require a computer and a really good program to keep it all sorted. Bioinformatics is about so much more than just mining the data from sequencing the genetic code.

[1averagejoe]

Natural Selection.

[boobaa]

lol I knew you were going to ask that. I don't see it as being natural that a person would have sexual attractions to their immediate family members or members of their extended family. I don't feel you can get that strength of the familial bond if there is incest going on somewhere

Another reason is this- Let's say the person in question is your sister. How could you possibly find your sister sexually attractive when you've known them since you were a baby (assuming a close age gap) and for all the years before you even knew what sex was? The brother-sister bond should be so strong from this that you never find them sexually attractive

Anyways, maybe you don't find it disgusting on just a level of preference. I do

You see, thats the thing. Its not about blood, its about knowing them since baby. You were raised with them and friendship is stronger than sexual feelings, you don't feel anything sexual because you have seen everything already, you were raised as brother and sister, not man and woman.
However, I know a case where a boy and a girl met. They were both orphans but from different home. They married and had a child. Now it comes out that they are actually brother and sister. They didn't know, nobody knew. And child seemed to be normal.

The fact that some diseases and deformations may spread a lot easier via inbreeding is the same thing like how some certain foods can cause cancer. Its a risk, and its their choice, you have no right and power to deny someones will in that part.

It's wrong just like it's wrong to **** animals.

Says who? You sound like a fundamentalist.
People don't **** animals because they don't feel sexually attracted to them. And it is ethical to not cause harm to another, don't act against someones will. I don't mind ****ing animals wrong because I just don't have any basis for that. You and I don't want to **** animals, thats for sure, but that doesn't mean everyone should agree with us. Only line there is is a line of harming or harrassing the animal.
So for me, ****ing animals can be basically put on the same level as petting animals. Is it right to take animal as your child? Is it right to take animal as your husband?

In nature, there are cases where different animals have adapdet other animals, raised them, mother tiger and deer son (really odd case) comes into my mind for example. And also, there is okapi and mule.

It is wrong to **** animals, but it is right to breed animals? Is it right to genetically improve animals? Are Ligers ok?

[Mish]

It's curious that these risks from breeding exist though. Wouldn't the small family groups of early humans during the Pleistocene period of time mean that incest would occur regularly?

My thought on this is that there might have been some incest in the early age, but there was also interbreeding with other tribes and cultures. Various alliance interbreeding between tribes and "peace marriages" meant that there was always a stock of interbred offspring which were then tested and naturally selected against the inbred ones.

One interesting factor I found which directly confronts the entire Eugenics ideology of the early 20th century is that the fittest tribes and ones which prospered to this day weren't the isolated ones, but appeared to be the ones with a wide genetic history of interbreeding with others. For instance Europeans have a diverse genetic mix that ranges from the furthest corners of Europe up to asia and modern day Iran. A common European Haplogroup R1a (Y-DNA) is found in most highly concentrated forms in Europe, Middle east and parts of Asia (as well America of course)

[vashti]

Booba, it is wrong to have sex with animals because they cannot consent. Same for marrying one.

As for pets - I suppose you could say they consent to stay when they don't run away. Animals are motivated to stay where their needs are being met.

[DoesntMatter]

My dog loves our family too much to run away. The first few times we left him at my uncles house, he wouldn't eat and was throwing up in the mornings because he missed us. Then after a couple times he learned the routine and was OK

He's such a little buddy. Whenever we walk anywhere, in our yard or at some random park, we can walk wherever and he'll just follow us around, staying within about 20 feet of us, smelling things and playing with stuff

[boobaa]

Booba, it is wrong to have sex with animals because they cannot consent. Same for marrying one.

As for pets - I suppose you could say they consent to stay when they don't run away. Animals are motivated to stay where their needs are being met.

You seem to miss the point entirerly because thats what I basically said. Its wrong if you harrass or rape someone. But stating that animals cannot consent is wrong, because you just don't know that. Its actually very same thing like petting.

Sometimes people take pets, and poor animal is scared at first and wants to get back to his/her mommy. He/she doesn't consent to your petting, but as time goes by he/she gets used to that.

But as for consent: family members can consent, so it is NOT wrong. Your statement was utterly pointless, sorry. Nothing can be wrong if there is no reason to it.

[misombra]

My dog loves our family too much to run away. The first few times we left him at my uncles house, he wouldn't eat and was throwing up in the mornings because he missed us. Then after a couple times he learned the routine and was OK

He's such a little buddy. Whenever we walk anywhere, in our yard or at some random park, we can walk wherever and he'll just follow us around, staying within about 20 feet of us, smelling things and playing with stuff

my dogs are that way too. if sabrina can get out of the yard she'll do it. then she'll come to the front and let us know that she got out and a path needs to be blocked. she'll come to the front porch and bark to be let back in. it's so funny.

we can leave our front door wide open and they won't go anywhere.

sweet puppy doggies.

[vashti]

You seem to miss the point entirerly because thats what I basically said. Its wrong if you harrass or rape someone. But stating that animals cannot consent is wrong, because you just don't know that. Its actually very same thing like petting.

Sometimes people take pets, and poor animal is scared at first and wants to get back to his/her mommy. He/she doesn't consent to your petting, but as time goes by he/she gets used to that.

But as for consent: family members can consent, so it is NOT wrong. Your statement was utterly pointless, sorry. Nothing can be wrong if there is no reason to it.

Go back and read, darling. I didn't address whether or not incest is wrong. I was addressing why it is wrong to have sex with animals.

If you think an animal can consent to sex with a human, please explain to me how that works? Bark once for no, and twice for yes?

Miso and DM - My dog won't go anywhere, either.

[Joker]

I'm not going to judge you guys, if you both love each other and aren't harming each other then your business is your business...

[Cain]

If he wants to **** his cousin, fine. They can do what they want. But if one of my future children decided to start ****ing his/her cousin, there'd be some issues. My family dynamic won't be ****ed up because some mentally disturbed kid wants to **** his cousin.

[lesa]

^^^ Would you have a romantic relationship with a person that is the product of incest. Would you marry them and have children with them even if their family dynamic may possibly be messed up?