Two Girls, One Problem

[Allegedly Dave]

[QUOTE=Raze;660016]

Just because a lot of people do it, doesn't make it right. Your logic is that if other people do it, it must be right.... WRONG! He doesn't have a conservative view of things. From his posts, he has made the point quite clear that he has learned from his mistakes and is trying to share what he has learned with other people on the forum.

You keep proving that is okay for someone to sleep with someone and not have a commitment with them, which is what you are doing. You are sadly mistaken if other people will pat you on the back for doing what you are doing.

No one "pats me on the back" for sleeping with someone without commitment. But what you and some others fail to grasp is that what happens between consenting adults is between them. Kaysie and I have slept together for almost 2 years and we have never been "a couple". We did have an understanding that we wouldn't sleep with others without informing each other prior to doing so in order to maintain trust and to prevent getting an STD. I failed to tell Kaysie, when she and I got back together, that I had started another relationship of sorts with someone else. Withholding that information for a month was WRONG for me to do. I have confessed it all to Kaysie, apologized, and she saw it fit to forgive me and continue our relationship.

I now am sleeping with Kaysie on a regular basis, despite still not being a couple, and Tara and I have become merely friends. I fail to see what I'm currently doing at this stage that can be deemed as so terribly "wrong".

[Allegedly Dave]

Okay do you think Kaysie is that stupid? Do you think she doesn't know that? THIS makes you a scumbag. A non scumbag wouldn't be saying this.

I think Kaysie DOES know this, yes. She also knows I would sleep with Megan Fox, Jessica Alba/Biel, Angelina Jolie, and Natalie Portman if the opportunity arose. But those opportunities are non-existent so thus, she is not concerned. Tara is no longer a concern because she has made it VERY clear that we will never be more than friends. Whether it was my choice or not, sleeping/dating with Tara is no longer a temptation that has any chance of being quenched.

Taking a break is fine, hooking up with others is fine, keeping them in the dark, refusing to break off what is probably a very tempting friendship isn't.

As tempting as it may be, it's not something that could happen even if I wanted it to. If it were feasible, then I'd understand Kaysie's point. I hang out with Tara 3-4x a week, and not once has anything crossed the platonic-line. We watch movies, have some drinks, and then she goes home. This has occurred countless times to the point that it should be reassuring.

[Take2]

OK, I disagree with almost everyone here. I don't think you are despicable or slimy. All consenting adults here, and while I think your behavior has been somewhat disrespectful, that is your choice to do and theirs to accept it. Still, I am with Kaysie on this issue.

The thing is, Kaysie wants a relationship. You SAY that you want one, too, and are only hesitant because of her baggage. But your actions say that you value your freedom independant of the baggage issue.

I have male friends, and I expect my boyfriend to trust me and not be bothered by that. But damn, I wouldn't expect THAT much of him. I think that whn you make exclusive one on one plans with a member of the opposite sex where the SO is not invited (even twice a month, let alone 3x a week!), you are giving part of what belongs to the SO to someone else, emotionally speaking. It's different if you have several friends and invite them all and only one female friend is able to make it. Or if the SO is invited, but can't come so it's just you and the female friend. But you are bsically setting up date nights here, even if nothing physical happens.

Now, you are being honest about it and you DON'T have a dating relationship. But, of course the girl who wants a dating relationship doesn't like you doing that, because it is clear evidence of you setting up your life to continue to not have a dating relationship. It is an impediment to the life she is seeking to build with you. And eventually you will have to choose between the single life and the dating life, and make all the corresponding adjustments. You have your cake and eat it, too, for now. But this strife between you and Kaysie is just some evidence that situation won't last forever. It never does.

[Allegedly Dave]

Everyone calm down a little... There is something to be said for Dave posting this in the first place. Maybe he feels a little bad about the situation. Maybe he really is looking for some advice on how to continue this situation. But right now it seems that we are all just feeding off each others' mud slinging and that is not going anywhere.

THANK YOU! That is exactly why I posted here. I do feel bad about that month overlap, I feel bad that Kaysie is now skeptical of my now-legit friendship with Tara, and I feel bad that I have no way of proving myself because of my prior, regrettable deception. Now I'm trying to figure out what to do.

For my part though, I think I spend too much time even reading this thread. But since I did, I may as well offer my thoughts:

First, Dave, you were the other person in Kaysie cheating on her husband. While that doesn't make you a cheater, it does make you a partner in her cheating. If you cared about Kaysie, you would have waited until she was separated from her husband to begin your friends with benefits relationship. You may not have broken up her marriage, but you did not help her either. This says something about your trustworthiness and any future relationship with Kaysie as becoming fruit from the poisonous tree, so to speak.

Agreed. Our relationship didn't start with a strong foundation in the least. Originally she just wanted to "get back" at her husband and I went along with it. After a couple weeks we both realized we couldn't hold back how we felt and somehow a purely sexual arrangement evolved into something more.

Second, your sleeping with Tara while on a break with Kaysie is fine. You had every right to do whatever you wanted. However, getting back with Kaysie without telling her about your situation with Tara does make you less than honorable. And untrustworthy.

Also agreed. In fact, when Kaysie first found out she kicked me to the curb immediately and while driving home I felt more respect for her than ever before. Sadly she changed her mind by morning.

Third, your two relationships "overlapping" for 30 days is a very interesting way to spin the fact that you were cheating during that time period. Again, I return to untrustworthy.

Untrustworthy, yes. But cheating? I still don't think so. If I had a legitimate committed relationship with Kaysie, then I'd agree I cheated.

Fourth, those who are in the wrong quite often will try to place blame on others. Your comments about Kaysie is going to ruin things, etc. sound like it is the way you are convincing yourself that you are doing nothing wrong. Perhaps the dishonesty applies to how you think about yourself as well.

Quite possibly. I know I was wrong to deceive, I'm just not convinced that I cheated. There's a fine line between the two, to be sure, but the distinction matters to me.

Now, before you start saying that I am name calling, please keep in mind that the only name I have called you in this reply is "Dave." I have made comments about what I believe to be some of your qualities based on the small amount of information I have available to me (your original post and subsequent replies). You have asked for advice, so here is mine:

Try this - Be honest. Completely. With yourself. With Kaysie. With Tara. With everyone. You may end up without either of them (which wouldn't be a problem for you it seems, since you have so many other options for relations), but if you do continue friendships or relationships with either of them, it will be on a more honest and equal level. Long-term, though, you will be better equipped to handle yourself more honorably with whomever you meet in the future.

I am presently completely honest with Kaysie and Tara. Kaysie knows I intend to remain exclusive with her and Tara knows we're just friends. I do have other "options" but none of them involve any emotional feeling. It's just ****-buddies that I have on reserve which I do not wish to revisit.

I appreciate the sane and measured advice. I felt like people were just calling me scum left and right but you took a more constructive approach. Even though I am only with Kaysie now, I should probably admit to my emotional attachments to Tara and deal with them one way or another. It's very difficult to be with someone and feel such an attraction to another. I'm on the fence about whether or not I should end things with Kaysie over it. My indecision lies solely with the fact that Tara does NOT want a relationship. So what would I be ditching Kaysie for? Nothing? I'm moving to Los Angeles in August so part of me is relying on it dictating what happens next. Everything will come to a head when I move on it's own. Granted it's an easy way to resolve matters, but hopefully I can figure out my own plan before that time comes.

[vertical_sky]

Hey Dave, I'm sorry if I came across like I was calling you scum.... I am of the option you should break up with Kaysie not because you are scum, but because it will be better for both of you in the long run. I think you need to go find a girlfriend who isn't just "the best you can get," but THE BEST, period, and Kaysie needs to go find someone who thinks SHE is the best, period.

It isn't wrong or all that surprising to be attracted to someone else while in a relationship. Being monogamous doesn't equal being dead. Heck, you can even be tempted. However, if the relationship is healthy and meant to be, the tempted person will say," No, I'm more compatible with <current partner.>" You're not really saying you're compatible with Kaysie... you're just saying you don't have a shot with Tara, so Kaysie will do. Do you see the distinction?

Additionally, if you were nuts about Kaysie, you wouldn't have f*** buddies waiting in the wings. I think Take2 is really spot on that right now, you're not ready to give up the single life but you want the advantages of the coupled life. So break up with Kaysie, let her go find someone who wants to give her what she wants (a committed relationship), and enjoy your singleness. And I think when you're ready/find someone you're really into, you won't be running into the problems of temptation that you are with Kaysie.

[Raze]

Additionally, if you were nuts about Kaysie, you wouldn't have f*** buddies waiting in the wings. I think Take2 is really spot on that right now, you're not ready to give up the single life but you want the advantages of the coupled life. So break up with Kaysie, let her go find someone who wants to give her what she wants (a committed relationship), and enjoy your singleness. And I think when you're ready/find someone you're really into, you won't be running into the problems of temptation that you are with Kaysie.

Haha, this made me laugh. You are basically saying, "Dave, you're not an asshole, but you are an asshole." OP is trying to convince us that he's not a douchebag, but in reality he is a douchebag. Don't kiss up to him. You know he's an asshole and so does the rest of the forum.

[vertical_sky]

[B][I]
Haha, this made me laugh. You are basically saying, "Dave, you're not an asshole, but you are an asshole." OP is trying to convince us that he's not a douchebag, but in reality he is a douchebag. Don't kiss up to him. You know he's an asshole and so does the rest of the forum.

Haha, well how can I put it? I think people can ACT like assholes without actually BEING assholes. Do I think he's being an asshole to Kaysie? Yes. But do I think he's an asshole for having the feelings in the first place? No. I guess I think it's a lot more complicated than "He's a douche."

Perhaps a more accurate way to say it is, I don't think he's scum or an asshole.... just young and immature.

[Raze]

He sounds like the kind of guy that needs to satisfy his yoshi wang all the time even if he is messing with someone's emotions in the process = douche

[girl68]

I think Kaysie DOES know this, yes. She also knows I would sleep with Megan Fox, Jessica Alba/Biel, Angelina Jolie, and Natalie Portman if the opportunity arose. But those opportunities are non-existent so thus, she is not concerned. Tara is no longer a concern because she has made it VERY clear that we will never be more than friends. Whether it was my choice or not, sleeping/dating with Tara is no longer a temptation that has any chance of being quenched.


As tempting as it may be, it's not something that could happen even if I wanted it to. If it were feasible, then I'd understand Kaysie's point. I hang out with Tara 3-4x a week, and not once has anything crossed the platonic-line. We watch movies, have some drinks, and then she goes home. This has occurred countless times to the point that it should be reassuring.

Sorry but despite all of this "hell no". First of all you say you'd cheat if you had the chance but since there isn't a chance what's the problem? is your line of thinking. Kaysie and I say the problem is you've openly said it would happen- why should I ever trust you? You think shit doesn't change or something?

Second, you're also in open agreement that Tara is and always will be first choice. So again your reason- Tara says it ain't gonna happen so what's the big deal? The big deal is that Kaysie is insecure and has every right to be considering your thoughts.

It's as if Tara will never ever change her mind, it's as if you think that her choice now is end all be all. Sorry man, that shit wouldn't fly for me. And obviously Kaysie and I sit in the same boat.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

There is nothing to break up with Kaysie, and I don't understand why everyone's heart is bleeding for this cheating, bitch anyway. Kaysie is an adult, I don't see why he's such an asshole for being upfront about what he wants from her and taking just that. He's not in a relationship with her, by her own choice, so what is all the "let her go find someone else" talk is all about. She's free to go find someone else right this second and not feel an ounce of guilt, so if she chooses to stay in a situation where she is unfulfilled, how is the OP a scumbag? Why are you all absolving her of all responsibility? From the beginning, all she wanted was dick, and said no to a commitment..sounds like exactly what she bargained for.

"He sounds like the kind of guy that needs to satisfy his yoshi wang all the time even if he is messing with someone's emotions in the process = douche"

He's not messing with her emotions, he told her what he wants and how he feels, and if she's not on board with that, then she's free to leave. He hasn't lied(he came clean), cheated, or misled her. Additionally, even if he was "messing with her emotions", that's on her to say, "I have more value than this, I'm leaving.". She is okay with the current situation, why is he a scumbag?

[Raze]

^^ He's a douche because he's using these women as a security blanket. Just because someone agrees to be used doesn't make it right. Everything comes down to his penis, which is what douchebags do; they only think with their penis and how they can get the most out of a situation without any concern for the other person.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

I'm under the impression that right now, they are not in a relationship. They are some sort of **** buddy or whatever; she's not his girlfriend. She is free to do whatever and whoever she wants, how is that a security blanket? He's not saying, "I want you devoted to me, while I philander around". She knows that he's just a **** buddy, it was at her request, and he told her that she should leave if the situation isn't something she can handle...she's still there.

[Allegedly Dave]

Hey Dave, I'm sorry if I came across like I was calling you scum.... I am of the option you should break up with Kaysie not because you are scum, but because it will be better for both of you in the long run. I think you need to go find a girlfriend who isn't just "the best you can get," but THE BEST, period, and Kaysie needs to go find someone who thinks SHE is the best, period.

You're probably right. The tricky part is Kaysie and I were never friends first, we began as **** buddies. So ending whatever it is we have now might not revert to even a friendship. And I don't know if I want her completely out of my life. If I do "break up" with Kaysie, it would have to be done very, very delicately.

You're not really saying you're compatible with Kaysie... you're just saying you don't have a shot with Tara, so Kaysie will do. Do you see the distinction?

Yes, that does make sense. Though I do think I'm compatible with Kaysie (she's not just "available" to me) but not as much as Tara is. It's kind of like a Betty and Veronica scenario, except Veronica is hotter, more artistic (I was an art major), and carries less baggage.

Additionally, if you were nuts about Kaysie, you wouldn't have f*** buddies waiting in the wings.

Well, I don't have **** buddies waiting per se. Just a few girls I was previously with that are really into me but I turned them down. If I merely wanted sex then I'd turn to them and I'm fairly certain they'd respond. Since I'm not looking for that, I see that as evidence that I do have a more meaningful connection with Kaysie then some might think.

[Allegedly Dave]

He's not messing with her emotions, he told her what he wants and how he feels, and if she's not on board with that, then she's free to leave. He hasn't lied(he came clean), cheated, or misled her. Additionally, even if he was "messing with her emotions", that's on her to say, "I have more value than this, I'm leaving."

Bingo. When I had come clean about Tara, Kaysie said "this is over, we're ****ing done!!" and sent me home. I never had more respect for her than I did on that drive back to my apartment. The very next morning though, she invited me to meet her son for the first time. Instead of having some dignity she doubled-down on her efforts to make a relationship with me work.

She is okay with the current situation, why is he a scumbag?

Good question. The way I see it, she keeps offering me a cookie and I, being a person that very much likes cookies, continue to accept. If she stopped baking that would be the end of it.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

This thread should be put out of it's misery. This dumb bitch is all about herself, and doesn't know what she wants. **** her mercilessly until she leaves you alone and call it a day, sounds like it's all she's worth.