Please help me clean up the mess I've made!

[Zero Interrupt]

Jesus "****ing" Christ.

I have been in the exact same position. I mean exact. It's a long story, that at first didn't end well, then did, then didn't again, but the last one wasn't because of the situation in the first place. Like I said: long, complicated story. Jenn and I practically lived together for six months, sans the sex, And did absolutely everything together.

Advice the first: BE BLUNT, for chrissakes. This is one big, messy web of ambiguity, and shows the evils of the absence of communication. Open your mouth and speak words, and do not beat around the bush. Tell him everything, and when he freaks out, tell him to sit down and shut the hell up until you've finished, then let him talk. If you're telling the truth about wanting to be with him, do not back off, because that will just reinforce this opinion he has that you don't want him. Don't be tricky, don't be sly, don't try to be subtle, BE BLUNT. BE CLEAR.

Advice the second: Show him this thread.

[221bBakerStreet]

Jesus "****ing" Christ.

I have been in the exact same position. I mean exact. It's a long story, that at first didn't end well, then did, then didn't again, but the last one wasn't because of the situation in the first place. Like I said: long, complicated story. Jenn and I practically lived together for six months, sans the sex, And did absolutely everything together.

Advice the first: BE BLUNT, for chrissakes. This is one big, messy web of ambiguity, and shows the evils of the absence of communication. Open your mouth and speak words, and do not beat around the bush. Tell him everything, and when he freaks out, tell him to sit down and shut the hell up until you've finished, then let him talk. If you're telling the truth about wanting to be with him, do not back off, because that will just reinforce this opinion he has that you don't want him. Don't be tricky, don't be sly, don't try to be subtle, BE BLUNT. BE CLEAR.

Advice the second: Show him this thread.

You've been here before??? What finally changed you and Jenn's "Friends" status? Please tell me exactly how it happened, who said what, and how long it took. PLEASE!!!!

And as scared shitless as it makes me, I think I'm going to take your advice the second this very evening. AUGHHHH!!!! (Running in circles, tearing my hair, screaming in abject horror at my own actions) If he turns up posting on here pretty soon, don't be surprised. OHMIGOD I must be nuts......

[Zero Interrupt]

Well, like I said, it's a long, ****ed-up story, and it didn't end well, mostly my fault. But maybe it'll help. Remember that this does not have to be you, though. I'll try to abridge the story as best I can.

For starters, I'm not even remotely physically attractive. I'm a 6'4" cornfed, very overweight redneck. But I don't have hangups about it, it's just facing facts.

Jennifer and I met at my friend's computer shop, and we immediately didn't like each other. I amde a joke about her being dressed like Sporty Spice, and she got pissed off about it. Then I found out she went to the same tech school I went to, and lived in the dorm next to me. A couple weeks later, she knocked on my door asking for a ride to our mutual friend's computer shop, so she could borrow a computer to study something on the internet. Being the Texan I am, I said sure. On the way, I was hungry and stopped in Burger King, and asked if she wanted anything, bought her dinner (nice guy I am), and we warmed up and started talking on the way there, and we just clicked. WE talked like we'd known each other for years, for the rest of the evening, and on the drive home, and into my dorm/apartment (every person had their own private bedroom) where we watched TV and talked all night I thought to myself, "wow, she turned out to be cooler than I originally thought. I have a platonic female friend now. Neat."

So she started showing up at my place every day. We'd talk, she'd use my computer, we'd watch TV, or rent a movie. We became best friends. Then one night - it was like a scene from a freakin' movie - Big thunderstorm comes, knocks the power out. My roomates are gone for the weekend, so it's just me and her, candles all over the place, eating ritz crackers and EZ-cheese for dinner, and talking all night, into the AM. We both got into deeply personal stuff. Old friends, old girl/boyfriends, family issues, about my overbearing father and her father recently dying, and suddenly I come upon the realization that I was attracted to her, romantically. And for once, I decided to make the leap without thinking about it, and told her, right there.

"Ok, at the risk of looking like an jackass, in retrospect, I really like you."
Her eyes light up a bit, curiously.
"Heh, yeah man , I like you too."
"Well, I mean, I likeyou. In that way."
Then that look, like a deer caught in headlights. We look at each other, an d I think I'm about to ****ing pass out on the floor, then finally...
"Um.... I'm not... good, at relationhips...."

Then she said goodbye, got up, and walked out the door. I didn't see her again for two weeks.

Then, one evening, I see her walk past my window again, and that knock at the door. She's rented some movies, and wants to watch them. I tell her to come in, and we sit and watch the movies, then some TV, then talk for a bit, then she goes back to her place. ove rthe next few days, same thing. she comes by and we hang out, like we used to, and I start to think, "Ok, this is my answer. We're to be friends." I start to think that maybe I can push my feelings aside, and jsut be feinds with this woman. Hell, I'd done it before. So for the next month or so, that's what I do. things return to normal.

Then one Sunday evening I'm driving hom from my weekend job, during another giant thunderstorm, and as usual, hoping that I see her car there when I pull into the parking lot, and it is. Then I see something else: Someone sitting on the stoop in this storm, outside her apartment. Then I realize it's Jenn, sitting there getting soaked, and yelling something. I park my car, and start to walk toward her, and then I can hear her, screaming up into the sky, at God, "Bring it on, mother****er! Is that all you got, you pussy!? Come on, you sack of shit, BRING IT!"

And it was at this precise moment, that I fully realized that I could never be just friends with her. That I was, head over heels, hopelessly in love with her.

We spent that evening running around in the rainstorm like a couple of idiots. Took my golf driver out (I don't play golf, I forget where I got the damn thing), and were hitting cans and random objects off into the street. And every second I was falling more and more in love with her.

So I decided I needed to bite the bullet, and tell her as much. A week later, we were talking with a friend of mine about how we needed to get the hell out of this cesspool, Texas, and move somewhere else, like the coast of Mississippi, where I lived to look for work for a few months. Beautiful place. Got wiped out by Katrina, though, more recently. But Jennifer's stoked about the idea, and she's still talking about it on the way home.

"Yaeh man, I'm serious about this. We all need to get the **** out of here and move down there. Share an apartment, get jobs at conveniece stores or something, or a New Orleans casino."
"Yeah, but if we got an apartment together, there'd be a problem. I might be wanting it to be something you're not."
"What's that?"
"You do realize that I am hopelessly, completely in love with you?"

Several seconds of awkward silence.

"I don't know what to say to that. I really have no idea what to say, literally."

We got home, she got out of my car, and went to her place without a word.

A week and a half later, she knocked on my door again. With rented movies. I locked it, and said I was busy. She got angry, yelled "What the **** is your problem?", and finally left. Never came back.

So I ended up dropping out of school, moved back home and in with my parents, because I didn't have a place to stay, or a regular job yet.

Cut to a year later, that mutual friend with the computer shop calls me up and says that Jennifer came by, and was asking about me. A month later, I get a letter from Jennifer, saying that she's sorry. She was ****ed up in the head, didn't know how to deal with things, and she sitting there back home in Arkansas one night, and suddenly realized that she loves me. That she loved me the whole time, and didn't realize it. That the only time in her life that she ever felt completely safe and happy was around me, and she's coming back to Texas to see me, and wants to be with me. Forever.

And the next two weeks until then were the happiest and most anxious in my life.

Thanksgiving Day, 2000. I skipped out on my family's Thanksgiving to see her. I met her, hugged her hello, and we spent the day together. She talked about how she was going to move back here, to be near me, adn we could work things out from there. At the end of the day, I kissed her goodbye, and told her I loved her. she said she loved me. then she got in her car and drove away.

Two weeks later I get another letter. Saying she needs to work some problems out, that she's not sure she can deal with a relationship, and that of course, it's not me, it's her.

And that's the end of it. Haven't seen nor heard from her since. I fell into a long, three-year depression after that, that took its toll on me emotionally and physically. I didn't take care of myself, I could barely keep a job... But eventually I pulled myself out of it, and I call myself being okay now.

Damn, I'm not sure I should have told this story, but... I still glad I knew her, and glad I handled things the way I did. I can only imagine how much worse it could have been if I'd stayed silent.

[221bBakerStreet]

Wow---that may be the saddest goddamn thing I've heard in years.

See, THIS story is precisely the kind of situation I am trying to avoid.

So that ONE Thanksgiving day is the only time you've ever been with her, as a MAN, and not a friend???? Then she went home, sent a letter dumping you, and you're still pining for her six years later????? When you said it went well for a while, I thought you mean more than ONE DAY.

Jesus, man! Are you TRYING to scare the piss out of me??? How can you say you are GLAD you said anything? Don't you think that if you had just shut the hell up, you might still have your best friend????

Dude, seriously, I have been on Jenn's side of this situation SO many times. She was NOT interested in a romantic relationship with you, but you made the friendship too awkward for her. When she wrote you from Arkansas, someone had just hurt her, and she was looking for some security, I'll bet. She blurted out something she probably didn't mean at the time, then regretted it later because it led you on.

Are you sure it's not true that all you've accomplished here is to ruin a great friendship for absolutely nothing??? You can't imagine how much worse it would be if you'd stayed silent??? HOW COULD THIS POSSIBLE BE ANY WORSE???? SHE'S IN A DIFFERENT STATE AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW HER ANYMORE.

I suppose if she'd tripped you on purpose on the way to the airport on thanksgiving, and you'd fallen and broken your leg, this story MIGHT be a little sadder, but I don't know any other way to make it worse.

Dude....this story was so brutal....I'd rather kill myself than have my friend and I turn out like this. You've been running after an unresponsive target for almost a decade, you uprooted and tore up your entire life for her, set back your career WHO KNOWS how many years in the process, and you are still clinging to the memory of the ONE DAY in all that time that she showed barely perceptible romantic interest in you???

Man, see, THIS is the reason I am afraid to say anything! I just think, if he was interested in me, I wouldn't HAVE to keep running after him! Am I wrong???

[Zero Interrupt]

Do you really think not telling her, and the psychological torture of being around her every day, talking to her, sharing intimate stories with each other, but not being with her, when I was in love with her, would be better? That's why I started not to tell the story at all, but then you asked, and I thought it might be a frame of reference.

I think my version ended much better, for all involved. I'm not saying everything ended right, or that me and Jenn should have been together, and now I don't pine for her so much. I'm dating another woman now. But my path was better than the alternative. I've been in that "friend" situation too many damn times. It doesn't work, and it drives you ****ing insane.

There's a major difference between our two stories. The two of you are physically attracted to each other, you know this for a fact, though he seems not to. And you already know you're emotionally sympatico.

Jennifer wasn't trying to find me "suddenly" because she was "hurt by someone". She'd been trying to locate me for months, and finally thought to try our old mutual friend. Even if it only worked for that day, it was at least something, and the "friends" problem wasn't the reason she left, it was for other, more personal, issues. She's ****ed up, and I'm ****ed up, and that was the reason we couldn't be together at the time. It wasn't anything to do with "losing the friendship". She had issues with relationships, and thought she was past them. I was trying to bring that point across, but I guess I didn't. Jenn and I didn't fail becasue we "broke the friendship", we failed because we were both very ****ed up. Things turned out as they should have.

Maybe you don't really care for the guy, that's what it sounds like to me. But eventually, you're going to have to make the decision between having a relationship with a man, and having this friend around. The two concepts are mutually exclusive, whether you finally make the jump with him or keep him at arm's length to go after another guy, but things cannot continue as they are.

Oh, and

set back your career WHO KNOWS how many years in the process

I dropped out of the school because I was already flunking, not because of her so much. The teachers were completely inept.


Edit Part Deux:

Man, see, THIS is the reason I am afraid to say anything! I just think, if he was interested in me, I wouldn't HAVE to keep running after him! Am I wrong???

Yes. You have to remember, that in the beginning, you kind of rejected him. That was the foundation for your relationship with him. That means you are the one who's going to have to work harder, not just "hint around" that you might be interested.

I went back and re-read your original post...

I keep telling myself just to get over it, be his friend, and stop thinking of anything else, but he monopolizes ALL my time and I feel like I've EARNED a second look from him.

Earned? No, you haven't. This guy is stronger than me, and can apparently keep a friendly relationship with a woman he's romantically interested in. Or maybe he ****s up in a different way, oh, I don't know, like dating ugly, bitch-women, sabotaging himself so he doesn't miss out on the one he really wants?

Wake up, chickie, and SPEAK. This ambiguity people feel the need to have in their interpersonal relationships is what's screwing us all up. You haven't "earned" anything, until you work for it.

[Zero Interrupt]

I don't feel like editing that post again, so I'll just double-post my afterword.

Your entire question is dubious to begin with. You seek an answer to a problem that you don't even know the question to. There is no Deus Ex Machina to solve this that assumes no risk. You already knew the answer to your question when you asked it.

Sit down, think, and decide if you want this guy. If you do, don't hint, don't half-flirt, don't "lightly bring up the subject". Open your goddamn mouth and speak. Clearly and succinctly. If you don't then this is an unhealthy relationship, and you need to be shed of it, one way or the other. You can't carry on this supposed "friendship" and expect to ever have a healthy romantic relationship with another man.

[221bBakerStreet]

I don't feel like editing that post again, so I'll just double-post my afterword.

Your entire question is dubious to begin with. You seek an answer to a problem that you don't even know the question to. There is no Deus Ex Machina to solve this that assumes no risk. You already knew the answer to your question when you asked it.

Sit down, think, and decide if you want this guy. If you do, don't hint, don't half-flirt, don't "lightly bring up the subject". Open your goddamn mouth and speak. Clearly and succinctly. If you don't then this is an unhealthy relationship, and you need to be shed of it, one way or the other. You can't carry on this supposed "friendship" and expect to ever have a healthy romantic relationship with another man.

Asked and answered. Fair enough.

[Crunor]

He went after you, and you turned him down. It's your turn to go after him, doesn't matter if you are old-fashioned or not. By the looks of it, it's pretty much what he's waiting for.

[Gigabitch]

Hey, 221bBS, I've got some advice: Stay the **** away from Roommate. I know you don't know me at all, but as close as a complete stranger can get to being a friend, I'm trying to be that now.

This is your own heart you're messing around with. Don't treat yourself like some kind of retard with emotional ADD. You know you don't want Roommate. If it were a legitimate attraction, it wouldn't be conveniently popping up just as you're trying to get the balls (not easy for us girls) to Confess.

Don't be so destructive. Not just self-destructive, but destructive. IMO, you look like an easy mark to Roommate right about now. Don't let him in your pants.

[221bBakerStreet]

Don't worry, Roommate is not trying to get into my pants, nor does he see me as an easy mark. I didn't mean to give everyone the impression that I am playing Best Friend and Roommate off of one another--that's not my style. Plus, neither of them is stupid, and it wouldn't even work if I tried. I hang out with Roommate mostly while BF is at work. We're all friends, and Roommate and I are NOT interested in one another at all. But, I do notice that it makes BF uncomfortable that we hang out without him. The truth is, if BF had his 'druthers, I'd never spend any time with anyone but him and my family. He doesn't appear to want me around ANYONE else, especially single guys. I can't help that, and I am NOT doing it to jerk him--OR me--around. I just can't live in his pocket.

Here's what I just wrote in my Journal--word for word. I edited out some names, but I wanted to share the OTHER half of my brain with you guys.

Sunday, June 18, 2006 1:24:01 AM

Dear Journal:

Like anyone would be, I am flattered by your fascination with me
Like any hot-blooded woman, I have simply wanted an object to crave
But you, you’re not allowed, you’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight

Must be strangely exciting to watch the stoic swerve
Must be somewhat heart-telling to watch upon me, Shepherd
But you, you’re not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

Like any uncharted territory, I must seem greatly intriguing
You speak of my love like you have experienced love like mine before
But this! - Is not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

I don’t think you unworthy -
I need a moment to deliberate.

Okay, so I have Best Friend on my mind right now. I admit it.

We went to the beach last night. He got drunk and got involved in a bunch of drama with some other inebriated idiots we didn’t even know. Then he drove off away from them in a huff, got about 75 yards down the beach, and passed out in the front seat of his truck. I sat there and watched him snore for about 5 hours, then I still had to drive that great big truck of his all the way home (over 100 miles) this morning in the pouring rain while BF slept in the passenger seat. His performance for the trip was less than stellar, to say the least.

You know, I am still thinking hard about any plans I make for any possible future concerning him. Just when I start thinking he hung the moon and he’s the man of my dreams, he pulls some dumb shit that makes me wanna run for the hills so fast my feet would be kicking my own ass.

When we got back to his house, this morning about 11:30, I took a bath at his house while he crashed out for a while, because he had to leave for work at 1:30. Then I hung around to wake him up at 1:00, and then when he left he suggested I stay there and go to sleep in his bed.

He just bought a new bed set (new sheets, pillowcases and comforter), so I did. When he was on his way home from work about 11:30, he called me and told me to clear out of his bed so he could go to sleep when he got home. I admit that hurt my feelings for several reasons. First of all, it’s not like he and I have never shared a bed before. It bothers me that he may have thought I was trying to have sex with him--I wasn’t. Secondly, what, he can let Dogface sleep in his bed the other night, but I can’t? Thirdly, I just didn’t feel like going home. In fact, I am sitting at IHOP--happily alone--as I type this.

After he told me to get out of his bed, I told him I would just go ahead and clear out of his apartment and get out of the way since I figured he had to be exhausted. He said he wasn’t THAT tired, and that if I was there when he got home, he would stay up for a while and hang out with me.

I left before he got home, and he was less than 10 minutes away when we hung up.

It bothers me that he wanted me out of his bed, but not THAT much. It’s puzzling, but the idea that he finds me repulsive somehow is completely negated by the fact that Dogface was welcome there several nights ago. Mostly, I have to admit, I am totally put off by his behavior at the beach last night, and I think I just may need a few days alone. And it also bothers me that when he can’t find me for the next few days, he is going to tell himself that I wanted to have sex with him and he turned me down.

And what’s crazy is, I am finally starting to figure this whole thing out with him. It's not nearly so confusing when you learn to watch for patterns. He's as predicatble as a grandfather clock. For instance, take what happened on the beach last night--we were just hanging out with these guys we met on the beach; older dudes (40-ish) who had rented a beach house with their families. Two out of three of the men definitely thought I was cool. None of them much cared for BF, though none of them actually said so. BF mentioned to me early in the evening that he thought they didn’t like him, and I agreed that it seemed that way to me, as well.

I should have known from that moment on that the night would go badly. Historically, and with 100% accuracy, when BF feels like someone doesn’t like him, he goes out of his way to make sure they don’t. And these guys were no exception. Plus, when BF is drunk, it gets a LOT worse. It didn’t occur to me until this morning that when I had agreed with BF that our new “friends” didn’t seem to care for him, he had assumed I KNEW they didn’t and that they had actually said so to me (they didn’t!), because at least one of the men was talking to me all night. I think BF thought me and that guy were laughing at him together all night. (I was clear about correcting that misconception over breakfast this morning as well--I would NEVER do that!) That, plus the liquor, equaled HULK SMASH!!! from BF last night. The only puzzling part about it in retrospect is why I didn’t know it was coming.

So realizing that, it’s a pretty simple jump to figure out that BF cares very much how I perceive him, and also that he thinks that I am not interested in dating him, so that, in general, he will always seem to be first to turn ME down.

Realizing that, it’s another short jump to how I could probably get out of the Friend Zone. But my question now, as always has been whether or not I SHOULD. Scenes like last night make me dangerously apprehensive about moving forward.

[Crunor]

You need to tell him what you feel, he might be thinking you are just teasing him, or that you will just turn him down again.

[vashti]

Dear Journal:

Like anyone would be, I am flattered by your fascination with me
Like any hot-blooded woman, I have simply wanted an object to crave
But you, you’re not allowed, you’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight

Must be strangely exciting to watch the stoic swerve
Must be somewhat heart-telling to watch upon me, Shepherd
But you, you’re not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

Like any uncharted territory, I must seem greatly intriguing
You speak of my love like you have experienced love like mine before
But this! - Is not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

I don’t think you unworthy -
I need a moment to deliberate.

.

Isn't that a song by Alanis Morisette?

[Blix]

Here's what I just wrote in my Journal--word for word. I edited out some names, but I wanted to share the OTHER half of my brain with you guys.

Sunday, June 18, 2006 1:24:01 AM

Dear Journal:

Like anyone would be, I am flattered by your fascination with me
Like any hot-blooded woman, I have simply wanted an object to crave
But you, you’re not allowed, you’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight

Must be strangely exciting to watch the stoic swerve
Must be somewhat heart-telling to watch upon me, Shepherd
But you, you’re not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

Like any uncharted territory, I must seem greatly intriguing
You speak of my love like you have experienced love like mine before
But this! - Is not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

I don’t think you unworthy -
I need a moment to deliberate.

[url]http://www.twin-music.com/azlyrics/m_file/alanis.html[/url]

Hahahah. It is by Alanis. Way to plagerize!

~Blix

[221bBakerStreet]

YES, I wrote the lyrics to Alanis Morissette's "Uninvited" in my Journal. I frequently quote lyrics that portray how I am feeling. I assumed everyone who read it would know I was quoting LYRICS, not trying to pass it off as anything I wrote. That song was on the Top 20 for weeks. It's not exactly a secret.

[Blix]

Well then at least credit her. I don't listen to songs like that and I'm sure many other people don't. Plus by saying "This is from my journal word for word" it seems like you are implying you wrote it.

~Blix