I gave away my boots...

[ecojeanne]

[QUOTE=Gribble;392207]Eco, I honestly don't believe you've ever lifted a finger to help another. You'll gladly wag your lips, though. You and Boobaa are perfect for each other.

QUOTE]

i have much more humility than to discuss. like i said charity is good, but keeping quiet about it is even more important for the sake of the people who receive it. in-fact no-one should actually be offended since it was about fras feeling the loss of his favourite boots...not about charity right?

[Junket]

you americans will never get it. but yes ultimately its great to give to charity especially something you love (thats sacrifice) just don't start looking for praise, that all i say because its crude to look for praise imo.

There's several things wrong with your argument.

1.) Someone almost always benefits in one way or another for providing a voluntary service to another person. Whether it's the feel good feeling, the tax exemption, or the praise. Always.Always. Here's a question, what do you think of firefighters, emergency medical services, doctors, and nurses? Nothing special right? The majority get some compensation for their work so I guess what they do is on the same level as a Wal Mart employee.

2.) When people are made aware of the benefits of service they're more likely to serve themselves, and it not only benefits themselves, but those they're serving. (AKA EVERYBODY WINS!) Can you deny this as well?

Your ideal (and let me run with it for a minute), would also suggest that doing anything the benefits the volunteer in any way is contrived. In fact, the only way to avoid that is to have an outside party, force that person to do something they don't want to do, which will in no way benefit them, or rather 'cause them harm, whether it's physical, emotional, or financial. Now that's service, or is that martyrdom?

3.) Here's something, nobody will ever look to you as a source of inspiration to do good things. Good cause, real admirable.

4.) If everyone shared your viewpoint here, than this would be a particularly hostile environment to discuss any kind of good Samaritan work. Ever think about that? No, think about that, you are actually getting down on people who are doing something positive. It's like a don't ask don't tell policy. You don't particularly care if people are doing good or not just so long as you don't have to know about it.

Who are you criticizing here? I'm not Brad Pitt, I'm not looking for good PR so that I can make more money. Everyone else here is aware of the work I've done in the past and I enjoy sharing my stories as few as they have become as of recent. I also like to hear about them to. I want to give someone a pat on the back for doing something good. I want to encourage that behavior. You're gonna hate what I have to say come Thanksgiving.

But if you truly think that any mention of a good deed is so utterly soulless and contrived. So negative to the continuation of service, then you better avoid my threads because they're only gonna get you down.

[boobaa]

You should publish this in the local newspaper. Seriously, the generosity needs to be spread around in times like this.

And in a non-gay way, you can cry on my shoulder if you need to

WHAT THE ****? A ****ING NEWSPAPER? Give me a break

[tooxshort]

I don't care if I get recognition or not for an act of charity. Whoever gets it should be happy as f*ck either way.

Fras ain't the type to be braggadocious or whatnot. He's never been and he uses this forum as a type of release of all his thoughts. And he's done just that on a variety of topics ranging from romance to a-hole-ness. He just said what he said and felt how he felt and I know that Fras doesn't give a shit if all or nobody responds to his threads. When he posts something, I see it as a journal entry of sorts.

Eco, why not step off and let people enjoy what they post. Do you have to keep defending your point of view until the thread is dead? Nothing you say is going to sway either person's point of view, so just step the f*ck off.

[vashti]

Eco is like a dark cloud on a sunny day.

[misombra]

did he just say step the **** off? oh yes he did. aaaaajahajhajaaa.

[lesa]

WOW! Would you rather be happy or sad Eco? Choose happy sometimes. I think chronic complaining is crude imo...there are people who do it for attention.

[boobaa]

**** you!



Short message long.

[lesa]

**** you!

choose happy sometimes boobaa

[Junket]

Enough of this.

But while we're at it.

Thanksgiving is coming up.

I hope to hear some stories of good deeds soon.

[Junket]

I wanted to keep this out of the Thanksgiving thread because it's become an extension of what this thread was and I'd rather keep it confined in one place...

Eco.

Let's just pause for a quick second and by second I mean several paragraphs.

So I was installing some metal strut to support our conduits to while up on the scissor lift. And since I was pretty much working by myself I got to thinking about this disagreement.

And I realized something.

I wouldn't have to go very far to find the same kind of mind set as Eco's. The whole "lift yourself up by your boot straps" attitude is very common in rural areas and red states. Places where there aren't as many welfare programs and charities. Places where it is in some cases, shameful to need assistance in the most basic necessities. This is reflective in more economically conservative state governments, and these are the same people that oppose the multi-billion dollar bailout.

Anyway, my point is that the differences in our viewpoints may merely be subject to our local environments. I cannot speak for Eco's, but in Philadelphia which is host to "Philadelphia Cares Day" and many other volunteer events, and of course New Orleans, which has had more volunteers, and volunteer events than any other place in the United States for the past 3 years, Eco's point of view is not a common one.

Volunteer work down here in New Orleans is much different from every day shelters. Nobody should be shamed for the doings of a natural disaster. In fact in many cases, volunteer opportunities were community events. Homeowners and neighbors and volunteers from all over the US would show up. Food was cooked, people laughed, and some cried. But I had never come across a homeowner that coy about the help they asked for. The help they applied for. And not all even needed help, I spoke to an elderly man who was doing almost his entire house by himself, and it was amazing, and we praised him for it.

Gratitude.

Maybe I'm used to it, maybe I expect it on some level. I lived in a culture for several months that had little more to offer than that. Gratitude from those we helped, and praise and support from our peers, something to keep us going, something to give us a reason to get up out of bed each morning. I had burnt out within the first several weeks. It was the most emotional, physical, mental drain I ever experienced, and there was more than one time that I considered quitting and going home. But like I said, it was the community that helped to keep me going, and as part of that community I did the same for others, there was a constant give and take in the kind of environment, almost fluid like.

Here's a confession: I was originally going to try to sell those boots, because they were all very expensive. I don't indulge much, but boots are one of the things that I do. So yes, it was weird to just give them away. Clothes? I've done that before, but those boots? Anybody that knows me would think I'd gone crazy. But here's the other. I've never directly given to a person like that. The only time I've ever donated anything was when charities would set up those dumpsters for clothes (anonymous). That was the first time I randomly met someone and gave directly to them. It was a new experience for me and an important one. Like I said, clothes are donated every day. But when I found out this guy wasn't just sittin' on his ass, that he was a working man, I felt like I could really relate to him on that level, that no hard working man should be without a quality pair of boots. He never asked me for anything but directions to where he was going. I offered, he accepted, and I was thankful that he did.

I said nothing about it when I got home, but yes, I felt like I needed some positive reinforcement so I came on here, some "hey man, I know those boots were important to you, but that's a good thing because you really didn't need them", so I could say "alright cool, this is something I should feel good about, this is something I can look to doing again in the future, good shit". And with anything that makes anybody happy, you want other people to try it, to experience it too. "Mm! This taste delicious! Taste this!" "Whoa that was a good movie, go see it!"

I still prefer big projects over small deeds like that because I love the community factor of it all. Meeting new people, learning new things, helpin' each other out.

I don't share every damn thing I do for other people, I don't care to, I don't need to, I don't even like getting all that praise, because it makes me feel uncomfortable. That's why I like to surround myself with people that share the same sentiment, because then it's a discussion, a learning experience.

Ugh, this wears me out so much I've been typing this out for the past hour.

I just wish you could come with and experience this community, even if you never spoke of it thereafter. Or maybe not, maybe I just wasted an hour of my time trying to explain something to someone who doesn't care to see another plenty valid view point.

[ecojeanne]

fras, I appreciate that you understand my point of view. I also understand your point of view of wanting to share it coz it was a hard thing for you to do but very worthy. I do admire this act believe me. In Ireland (and I’m sure a lot of other cultures) we have a long history of charity giving and the importance of giving. It starts very early but what also starts very early is understanding the shame and feeling of less worth people may feel accepting charity and we have been taught to say nothing ever to anyone not even family (and it is also frowned upon to promote ones good deeds). I personally ( I don’t always with the pre-conditioning) agree with this way of thinking as I believe it is a more understanding approach to doing the right thing. I also do think it is appropriate and nice to recognise when people have done something nice for others but only from the people who have received the help (if they feel they want to) or from someone who saw the good act in process. I can’t help the way I feel. It’s something I feel strongly about and I don’t agree that it hinders charity giving coz the organisers and we are there to promote these charities without promoting ourselves.

thanks

[misombra]

those stories motivate people to do the same. there's nothing wrong with spreading the giving spirit.

[IndiReloaded]

There's also something called 'false humility'. I don't see anything wrong with ppl receiving praise for doing good things.

Imagine: a society that starts by doing good things b/c they are rewarded for it. A big 'ewww' in Eco's book b/c its lacks class & humility. Fine, no argument there.

BUT....hang on a minute. What happens when, in a society where everyone starts giving (even if its for recognition), when it starts to become HABIT? My goodness, then we've converted from a selfish giving to a selfless one?

This is an acceptable way of affecting change. Just ask anyone who's altered their behaviour, beaten an addiction, or <GASP> tried to restimulate a failing world economy. First you establish the behaviour, even if its an ersatz one. But, after a while, the 'fake' behaviour starts to become habit, then perhaps even a virtue.

Or, we can just be defeatist and tell everyone that UNLESS they can be selfless from the get-go, that they shouldn't even bother trying.

[doppelgaenger]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxRLzBf0"]YouTube - Imagine[/ame]