Depressed...

[Mish]

nah, Misha, I am sure you can handle kids. I think it has a lot to with culture and upbringing. We see a lot of supremely responsible young mothers in Russia or here as well. I have a 21 year old friend who has 2 boys already and she is doing a great job. Never complains and she does go out every weekend and leaves the kids with her mom.

I spoke to some people I know in Ukraine a few months back, they are my age and most of them are already married and either have kids or have some on the way. They were surprised that I don't yet have a family of my own. I told them our culture is different. That we wait to establish our careers first and get some money before we feel ready to do things right by the kids, but I don't think they could understand that. Then again, parent to child relationship there is a lot looser than here. Child protection services are like a myth, the parents act in a similar way as early 20th century in the west and that seems normal. So there's probably more incetive to have kids whenever because parental activities are not really monitored or restricted.

Here in the west the laws and cultural attributes are lot tighter and stricter. You have to watch yourself and what you do and at least try to do things by the book. There are all these sciences which teach how kids should be approached and handled and there are a lot of restrictions on what a parent /guardian can and can not do. If not legally then at least culturally. A lot of these are there for a reason and probably should be there, but it makes child upbringing a lot more restrictive and unattractive Imo. Also, because of these restrictions or perhaps influenced by them I've noticed a lot of kids end up spoiled because some parents assume restriction on parents upbringing skills = no discipline and raise their kids with a "Child God" mentality.

[Junket]

You'll find similar parenting culture in more rural areas of the United States. A lot of teenage girls were getting knocked up in Oklahoma. Also, it makes more sense when the parent has strong ties with their family, and thus has familial support.

But me, as well as many of my peers live several states away from our families, which means we must be more independent, and to support such independence requires us to prolong child raising until we have an income to support them.

[lesa]

It's not that I really feel an established career is a must before having children. I just don't have the desire for children....yet. I probably won't anytime soon and if my biological clock explodes, then I am okay with it (sort of). I'll probably adopt at age fifty if I ever get that desire, lol. Not all women want to have children.

[ecojeanne]

i have to say, i adore children. i can't wait for my brother's gf to have the child. i am a godmother and i love playing with the kids and dancing around with them. i love to spoil them. i'm ecstatic at the prospect of a niece or nephew. kids are great fun!

having a child tho is scary as hell!

[vashti]

Here in the west the laws and cultural attributes are lot tighter and stricter. You have to watch yourself and what you do and at least try to do things by the book. There are all these sciences which teach how kids should be approached and handled and there are a lot of restrictions on what a parent /guardian can and can not do. If not legally then at least culturally. A lot of these are there for a reason and probably should be there, but it makes child upbringing a lot more restrictive and unattractive Imo. Also, because of these restrictions or perhaps influenced by them I've noticed a lot of kids end up spoiled because some parents assume restriction on parents upbringing skills = no discipline and raise their kids with a "Child God" mentality.

As a mother, I have no idea what you are talking about. Sure, most of us don't beat the kids anymore (some still do, and they are allowed so long as there are no bruises afterwards), but I'd hardly call that restrictive.

Unless you are talking about Australia specifically?

[lesa]

I babysat children aged 1-2 months old to about 6-7 years old. I love playing with them. Nope, still no desire.

[Mish]

As a mother, I have no idea what you are talking about. Sure, most of us don't beat the kids anymore (some still do, and they are allowed so long as there are no bruises afterwards), but I'd hardly call that restrictive.

Stuff like this

You do not have the luxury of taking naps at will, refusing to do dishes, not giving her bottles, gagging over diapers. Also, she is too young to be closed off unspervised in anyone's room to watch TV. Babies need *constant* watching. It is NORMAL for a baby her age to put things in their mouth. It is the parent's job to prevent them from doing it because they can choke to death if you aren't watching them.
.

It's not appropriate to punish a toddler. They are not capable of rational thought or impulse control at that age and therefore are not responsible for their behaviors. Almost anything "bad" or "naughty" that is done by a toddler is a direct result of being unsupervised. The few exceptions would be physical aggression, but they still aren't liable for even that until they are older. Of course they should be corrected with a firm voice and their energies should be redirected, but that is really the extent of appropriate punishment at 18 months.

See, people in the Eastern Europe have the luxury of taking naps at will, refusing to do dishes, not giving bottles, gagging over diapers. There is no strict cultural or legal structures that will look over their shoulder or punish them. For them raising kids is not as complicated.

[vashti]

Stuff like this
See, people in the Eastern Europe have the luxury of taking naps at will, refusing to do dishes, not giving bottles, gagging over diapers. There is no strict cultural or legal structures that will look over their shoulder or punish them. For them raising kids is not as complicated.

LOL! You must be joking! What an absurd characterization of Eastern Europeans. I don't think anything I said would be construed by 99% of parents as "complicated", or even unusual, even in Eastern Europe. Frustrating, maybe. Complicated? No.

[LadieNisha4u2nv]

I always mention adoption when I'm angry and when I'm hurt inside. I dont think I'd ever really go through with it. I spoke to my brother about it yesterday and he understood why I felt the way I felt. He told me just hang in there. He left to head back to Georgia today, and I miss him alot. This thread was just a venting space for me, but it's apparently turned into a thread about "knocked-up" teens, which of course I take to offense, so I dont think I really care to read anything else right now.

[Mish]

LOL! You must be joking! What an absurd characterization of Eastern Europeans. I don't think anything I said would be construed by 99% of parents as "complicated", or even unusual, even in Eastern Europe. Frustrating, maybe. Complicated? No.

These are just examples. All I'm saying it's more culturally and legally relaxed over there as far as child raising is concerned. As a parent you have more freedom to do whatever it is what you want to do and if you stuff up here and there most likely you'll get away with it without being scolded for it by anyone. Not saying that it's how it should be btw.

[ecojeanne]

he's right ladie, hang in there :hugs:

[vashti]

These are just examples. All I'm saying it's more culturally and legally relaxed over there as far as child raising is concerned. As a parent you have more freedom to do whatever it is what you want to do and if you stuff up here and there most likely you'll get away with it without being scolded for it by anyone. Not saying that it's how it should be btw.

Well, it's true that I don't have a huge number of Eastern European friends, but I can tell you for sure that amongst the few I know, the things I mentioned were normal parenting responsibilities for them, too.

[LadieNisha4u2nv]

I'd also like to add:

Vashti, we all have our different views on things. I do believe a one and a half year old can get some kind of beating. I dont beat her just for doing something wrong, but for something wrong that she knows she is doing wrong. She is the type to run to what she wanted to mess with, and watch you to make sure you're watching, because she knows that this is what mommy doesnt want me to do. She likes to taunt me, and I know my words dont mean shit, but if you would see her for yourself you'd understand. Now, I wouldnt beat her in public, I only share some licks when she's here at home. I dont automatically beat her either. She gets the harsh voice first. Then she pushes it and she gets a spank or a slap on the hand. I dont even hit her hard enough for her to cry, but hard enough for her to know it's time to stop. And it does work. If you find my method wrong, then that's ok. We dont and wont agree on everything. I just feel that when the harsh voice is no longer working, that's the next step.

We've clearly both grown up in two different types of homes. I grew up knowing when I did shit I wasnt supposed to do, you're gonna get punished.

[ecojeanne]

ladie i do think sometimes things are too PC indeed. i got the wooden spoons and spanks here and there and so did my brothers. it really did us no harm whatsoever. the reason these laws and restrictions are in place are for the parents that go on a power trip and it becomes a danger to the child. your family are there and i do think you are having a rough time. things will change if you are determined enough. i've seen it happen, so it is possible. have faith.

[vashti]

Actually, I grew up in a very physically violent house. All that kind of parenting does is breed resentment and teach the child (when they are older) that the reason you behave is to avoid punishment rather than because it is the right thing to do. Additionally, while your method is effective with very young children, it won't work on older kids because there is a limit to how much physical harm you can do without being thrown in jail.

Your views are exactly WHY you need some parenting classes. You do not understand normal child development, nor would I expect you to at your age. Your baby's brain won't even be fully formed until they are around 5. You cannot hold them to a standard of behavior they are not rationally capable of.