Winning her back

[and_for_what]

I agree with what Cain & Lite are telling you, and I'm a woman.

Basically, you got outcompeted by this guy. Happens. She's not coming back, so learn from this for the next time.

Oh and guys in general, I told you before: do NOT let your woman hug other guys and stuff. We are *wired* to fall for them, all those chemicals we've been discussing in other threads. Even if we have the self-control not to go there, who wants their woman attracted to some other guy if you can avoid it? You are just asking for issues in your relationship if you do. YOU should hug and touch your woman, not some sly guy on the make for your chick.

Thanks for your input. Can I ask you - do you think our long and generally happy relationship will stick in her mind, at all? Do you think I am probably completely forgotten and completely unwanted? Right now, absolutely, since she and him are so new and exciting at the moment. But in time?

Oh and please can you all suggest whether this is utter bullshit, as I believe it to be. When we last met up, she was all upset and said how I'm just perfect really, and so much better than him - but despite that she didn't want to see me again and couldn't wait to get back into his bed.
I took it that she was saying it to try to make me feel better (kind of the like the "it's not you, it's me" shit)?
However it isn't inconceivable that she does kind of think that I'm a good guy, but needed to try someone else.

She spoke of that before. She would say how she'll regret it when she's older if she never tries being with anyone else.

[Lite]

Oh and please can you all suggest whether this is utter bullshit, as I believe it to be.

Either she wants you to be her fallback guy when this relationship ends badly... (Do you want to be her second choice forever?) Or she's trying to play the martyr to make her feel better about herself.

[IndiReloaded]

Oh and please can you all suggest whether this is utter bullshit, as I believe it to be. When we last met up, she was all upset and said how I'm just perfect really, and so much better than him - but despite that she didn't want to see me again and couldn't wait to get back into his bed.

Yes, I think that is utter BS. If she think you are that great, she'd still be with YOU.

I took it that she was saying it to try to make me feel better (kind of the like the "it's not you, it's me" shit)?

Yep. That, and she may be hoping to keep you around as a PlanB guy as Lite said.

She spoke of that before. She would say how she'll regret it when she's older if she never tries being with anyone else.

Probably. Unfortunately, it seems that 'nice guys' aren't appreciated by women until they gain some experience and maturity. The problem is that a lot of guys are justifiably bitter by that time.

Frasbee had a thread recently that touched on breaking up to sow ones oats recently. There were some good arguments in there about why this attitude is perhaps not the best one. There will ALWAYS be someone prettier/smarter/hotter/sexier out there, no matter HOW many partners you have. So, if its not that which keeps ppl together, what it is?

[url]http://www.loveforum.net/intimate-forum/26333-shit.html[/url]

Whatever it is, your ex GF doesn't have it. Sorry.

[and_for_what]

Probably. Unfortunately, it seems that 'nice guys' aren't appreciated by women until they gain some experience and maturity. The problem is that a lot of guys are justifiably bitter by that time.

As she said to me, and it's true - she's always been so loved in her life. She's the youngest of three siblings and grew up with everyone adoring her. So my adoration of her is nothing special to her anyway.
This other guy is a "nice guy", I'd say. Nothing wrong with him really. He was with his last gf for 3-4 years and I don't think he's the type who'd be looking for a quick **** and then move on.

Frasbee had a thread recently that touched on breaking up to sow ones oats recently. There were some good arguments in there about why this attitude is perhaps not the best one. There will ALWAYS be someone prettier/smarter/hotter/sexier out there, no matter HOW many partners you have. So, if its not that which keeps ppl together, what it is?

Yea that's basically what I think about it. But then I've never really been like other guys. I was horny as shit in my teens, like anyone, but I never talked about or thought about girls in the same way my peers did (or at least how they acted in front of each other, I suppose). I was never interested in being with many different girls. During our relationship on a few (like three or four) occasions I'd suddenly feel all nostalgic about some other girl I kind of knew, and wish I had been with her instead, but it would only last an evening and I'd feel like such an idiot afterwards. With her it was a persistant and ongoing concern, though. In fact I can remember now, a time from when we'd only been together 6 months, and she said how she wants to sleep with other men. Later on she said she'd changed her mind, but apparently those feelings have been there for a long time.

Thanks for the link, I liked that thread.

[Cain]

It really sounds like she's not as into you as she says she is. If she was, this wouldn't have happened. She didn't break up with you to get you to change so you could win her back. She obviously wanted to explore the waters.

[IndiReloaded]

Right. So she's not looking for adoration. That doesn't have value to her b/c its not something she's 'missing'. Ppl tend to look for things in a partner that they lack, in the hopes that their partner can help them become a more complete person.

Whatever she is looking for, and its entirely possible even SHE doesn't know yet, its not in you to give. That's completely fine. That means there isn't a good fit. Happens. I'm sorry for your broken heart, but in the end, its probably for the best. Relationships that 'force a fit' end up dying these really contorted, miserable deaths. Like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

There's a upside to breakups like this, tho its hard to see thru the immediate pain. Hang in there.

[and_for_what]

I met up with her today. We only had about 15 minutes. She wouldn't let me touch her at all. She showed now signs of joy at seeing me. She said that she really likes her new bf and sees a future with him.

She also agreed that tomorrow evening I could walk her back from work. That will put a break in her fantasy world of being picked up from a new job every day and whisked back to a magical house in the woods. I suppose it will make her long for it all the more, though, rather than give her any other perspective.

I will coerce her to come in to my house (close to her work) for a cup or tea or something. She seemed very cold and utterly dissinterested in me, so I don't know if anything we say tomorrow will change that.

It's shocking how quickly things change. Literally overnight.

We had two years together and she happily gave her precious body to some new guy on their first date, and then they have a week together and she won't even let me touch her arm.

EDIT: And I should say, that last night I had something of a change of heart. Fairly suddenly my despair and sadness became anger and hunger, I felt more powerful and more right. He still has shit I don't - car/house/etc. but I believe I am meant for her and somehow I need to convice her of it. How I ****ing regret letting her meet him, though. Girls are too easily swayed by nice new things.
By the way he has no idea that he caused our break up. She has told him we had broken up "recently", when in fact I found out a day later than everyone else. Do you think him knowing that he took her from me would just make him feel more powerful?

Oh and he's been repeatedly saying how he sees me as a threat, which she really loves to hear.

[Cain]

You're really going to try to convince her to love you?

Do you really think that's the basis of a good relationship?

Do you even realize that by doing what you're doing, you're destroying any chance you have of getting this cheating bitch back?

[and_for_what]

You're really going to try to convince her to love you?

Impossible

Do you really think that's the basis of a good relationship?

You mean love, or what?

Do you even realize that by doing what you're doing, you're destroying any chance you have of getting this cheating bitch back?

What aspect of what I'm doing? Seeing her at all?

---

My plan at the moment is neither to vanish and hope that she misses me, nor to harrass her and beg like a faggot. I'm going to stay visible in her life so that she doesn't forget me, but not so visible and overt that she remembers what she didn't like about me. Basically I'm going to try to make her my friend. She will like it because there's no one else she can tell about her new guy and talk to at all. In fact that was what I said that made her agree to walk home with me tomorrow. She wants to talk to someone other than him, I guess. I only had to ask once, anyway, and she said yea.
If I can hear from her that she doesn't suddenly hate me or anything, then I'll suggest that we stay as active friends. That is, not just token friends that never see each other. I will make no moves on her, no inappropriate touching or closeness, nothing like that. Just acting like I would with any other girl.
From there I'll show her why she liked me in the first place, and in time this crazy excitement she's under will pass, she'll get homesick and want to spend most nights at home instead of with him. Her at home includes her on the internet, and that's somewhere I can beat him because he's not really an internet person. We can talk on msn and stuff, and I'll just stay THERE. Eventually she'll think better and better of me.

You negative bastards will see - I'll get her back and I'll have his ****ing balls in a jar on my desk.

[Lite]

You negative bastards will see - I'll get her back and I'll have his ****ing balls in a jar on my desk.

See, this is where you've stepped off the sanity train. You're angry at HIM for taking her away and being a better man than you. When you should be angry at HER for cheating on you and leaving.

He has absolutely no reason to respect you or your wishes. He never did. He wasn't your friend.

You know what the opposite of love is? It isn't hate. It's apathy. When you no longer care what happens to the person, because it doesn't affect you. That's the opposite of love. Instead you're being a pathetic stalker with some vengeance complex. You're lame.

[and_for_what]

> See, this is where you've stepped off the sanity train. You're angry at HIM for taking her away and being a better man than you. When you should be angry at HER for cheating on you and leaving.

> He has absolutely no reason to respect you or your wishes. He never did. He wasn't your friend.

> You know what the opposite of love is? It isn't hate. It's apathy. When you no longer care what happens to the person, because it doesn't affect you. That's the opposite of love. Instead you're being a pathetic stalker with some vengeance complex. You're lame.

> I'm angry at him but I don't blame him. He didn't know she had a boyfriend, and she made herself available to him. I'm angry at her more than I am at him, sure. People do stupid shit all the time, and in this situation (i.e. how we were late last year) I could come to forgive her, given the right circumstances.

> I don't expect him to give a shit what I want or anything like that. I'm not going to ask him for permission of any kind, anyway. As far as I'm concerned he is an illegitimate presence and if he tries to tell her or me that I'm not to see her then I'd suggest he **** off and come back after he's been with her more than a ****ing week. If she won't see me then there won't be anything I can do, of course.

> I think it's more suitable to put apathy in the middle of the love-to-hate spectrum, but I know what you're saying anyway. I know where my feelings are on that spectrum, but hers I don't. Right now I can't tell if it's apathy or hate. I only had 15 minutes with her today and she was worried about the time and even when we were together she'd act all fussy and gay when she was worried about some time limit. Tomorrow afternoon will be relaxed and easy with a 20-minute walk (more if I get us going slowly) and then if all goes well she'll come in for a few minutes and stuff.


There's no pleasing you guys! I'm either a pathetic beta male or a crazy stalker. I don't understand what the middle ground is meant to be? Feeling good about myself, but doing nothing to set things right?

[Cain]

What aspect of what I'm doing? Seeing her at all?

---

My plan at the moment is neither to vanish and hope that she misses me, nor to harrass her and beg like a faggot. I'm going to stay visible in her life so that she doesn't forget me, but not so visible and overt that she remembers what she didn't like about me. Basically I'm going to try to make her my friend. She will like it because there's no one else she can tell about her new guy and talk to at all. In fact that was what I said that made her agree to walk home with me tomorrow. She wants to talk to someone other than him, I guess. I only had to ask once, anyway, and she said yea.
If I can hear from her that she doesn't suddenly hate me or anything, then I'll suggest that we stay as active friends. That is, not just token friends that never see each other. I will make no moves on her, no inappropriate touching or closeness, nothing like that. Just acting like I would with any other girl.
From there I'll show her why she liked me in the first place, and in time this crazy excitement she's under will pass, she'll get homesick and want to spend most nights at home instead of with him. Her at home includes her on the internet, and that's somewhere I can beat him because he's not really an internet person. We can talk on msn and stuff, and I'll just stay THERE. Eventually she'll think better and better of me.

You negative bastards will see - I'll get her back and I'll have his ****ing balls in a jar on my desk.

You're going to try to remain friends? You're not in the right mindset to only be friends with her. You still love her. That's now a friendship. That's you waiting around like a pathetic loser hoping that she'll want you back.

And she's not going to so long as she doesn't get time to miss you. And being in her life as a friend won't give her that time to miss you. Do you know what it's going to do? It's going to give her what she wants. She'll be able to have someone she can talk to about her current bf and someone to be a friend with, and then she'll have her actual bf that she goes home to and bangs. Enjoy being friendzoned.

Be sure to come back here when you fail miserably. It'll give you perspective that you don't have right now and you'll be able to look back on all of this and realize what the hell you were doing and how stupid it was.

[Cain]

You know what the opposite of love is? It isn't hate. It's apathy. When you no longer care what happens to the person, because it doesn't affect you. That's the opposite of love. Instead you're being a pathetic stalker with some vengeance complex. You're lame.

This.

Trust me on this. This happened with my ex. I thought I was over her because I didn't feel that love, but I still was angry with her. It took me five months to finally get over the whole thing to where I am now.

I feel nothing. No love, no hate, no anger, no bitterness... nothing. And it's an amazing feeling.

[Lite]

>There's no pleasing you guys! I'm either a pathetic beta male or a crazy stalker. I don't understand what the middle ground is meant to be? Feeling good about myself, but doing nothing to set things right?

Why are you out to please us? It's not our life.

You're missing the basic point of our suggestions. FIX YOUR LIFE, then go date. Don't worry about her little hoochie ass, don't worry about him banging her little hoochie ass like a screen door in a hurricane or riding her like he's working for the gotdamned pony express.

WORK ON YOU. Move on with fixing your life, for yourself. Not for her, not to prove her wrong, just for you. Nothing more, nothing less. It's your life, you have to be happy living it. You've stated a bunch of things that you feel make you loser-ish, so fix them.

Stop worrying about dating. It isn't the end of the world to not date someone for a while. Fix your shit. That's what we've been saying. Forget her, forget him. Focus on YOU.

[Cain]

There's no pleasing you guys! I'm either a pathetic beta male or a crazy stalker. I don't understand what the middle ground is meant to be? Feeling good about myself, but doing nothing to set things right?

There's nothing to set right! She chose this guy over you. She doesn't want you but you can't accept that.

There's no either/or in this situation. You're a pathetic beta male that's stalking her.