Do you think memories weigh anything?

[IndiReloaded]

Ygg, how does that help tho? How will you measure this mass in the context of the question?

Its kind of like saying that you will convert your home electricity usage into mass. Not very useful. That's not really what Einstein was meaning.

Some measurements make more sense than others. I can think of a couple ways to measure the energy as relates to this question. Measurement of mass wouldn't really make sense in this context.

Are you a physicist, or did you just grab that info from Google?

[IndiReloaded]

My post was merely to point out that energy has mass.

So in regards to looking at memories as energy, according to the Einsteinian principle, energy does have mass, hence the formula Energy = Mass times Speed of Light in a vacuum square (E=MC^2).

No, it doesn't. It *relates* to mass mathematically. Not the same thing.

EDIT - Better than Google:

[url]http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/ParticleAndNuclear/photon_mass.html[/url]

[Yggdrasil]

No, it doesn't. It *relates* to mass mathematically. Not the same thing.

EDIT - Better than Google:

[url]http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/ParticleAndNuclear/photon_mass.html[/url]

Actualy, it refers to the relativistic mass, but again, that's besides the point in an electric discharge. In an electric discharge, it's the electrons which make up for the current. This entire talk about photons has sidetracked us a bit from the actual question.

So let's maybe get back to the electrical discharge required for the chemical imprint of a memory:

The protons and electrons of an atom are attracted to each other. They both carry an electrical charge. An electrical charge is a force within the particle. Protons have a positive charge (+) and electrons have a negative charge (-). The positive charge of the protons is equal to the negative charge of the electrons. Opposite charges attract each other. When an atom is in balance, it has an equal number of protons and electrons. The neutrons carry no charge and their number can vary.

Electrons usually remain a constant distance from the nucleus in precise shells. The shell closest to the nucleus can hold two electrons. The next shell can hold up to eight. The outer shells cans hold even more. Some atoms with many protons can have as many as seven shells with electrons in them.

The electrons in the shells closest to the nucleus have a strong force of attraction to the protons. Sometimes, the electrons in the outermost shells do not. These electrons can be pushed out of their orbits. Applying a force can make them move from one atom to another. These moving electrons are electricity.

The mass of an electron = 9.10938215(45)×10^−31 kg.

The mass of a proton = 1.67262158 × 10^-27 kg.

That is why I used the term 'point mass' (infinite small mass).

[IndiReloaded]

Well, I'm not a physicist but I was waiting for you to bring up relativistic mass. LOL. But, my point was that most physicists treat photons as massless (i.e. energy has no mass).

Anyway, how would measurement of mass help with determining memory? That's really what you haven't said, Ygg. I *know* how one would measure energy in that system. Do you?

(This isn't really fair, btw. I have an in-house MIT physicist to consult with)

[Yggdrasil]

Well, I'm not a physicist but I was waiting for you to bring up relativistic mass. LOL. But, my point was that most physicists treat photons as massless (i.e. energy has no mass).

I know.. even the first sentence in the link you posted states so

Anyway, how would measurement of mass help with determining memory? That's really what you haven't said, Ygg. I *know* how one would measure energy in that system. Do you?

One could make a PET scan I'd suppose, or an MRI.

[IndiReloaded]

I know.. even the first sentence in the link you posted states so

More than once. It was in my original post on this as well.

Anyway, I can be a pedant, for sure. But I think its fair. Misunderstanding of fundamental science concepts leads to misinterpretation of data. Which leads to pseudoscience concepts like chi, homeopathy, water 'memory' and other snake oil products. All that deconstructionist stuff like in that other thread.

The only way to weed it out is to go all the way down to the root & expose the rot.

One could make a PET scan I'd suppose, or an MRI.

Yes. Combine with direct measurements like ion-channel conductance.

[Yggdrasil]

Anyway, I can be a pedant, for sure. But I think its fair. Misunderstanding of fundamental science concepts leads to misinterpretation of data. Which leads to pseudoscience concepts like chi, homeopathy, water 'memory' and other snake oil products. All that deconstructionist stuff like in that other thread. The only way to weed it out is to go all the way down to the root & expose the rot.

I have no problem with you being a pedant. You inquire, you question, you think out of the box.. I like.

I was more going the way of quantum physics actually

[IndiReloaded]

I was more going the way of quantum physics actually

As in 'What the Bleep Do We Know"? (ewwww)

Or as in those quantum computing folk who detect the spin of an electron? THAT would be cool, if there was a way to detect such in a neuronal system. I've never heard of it, tho.

[IndiReloaded]

Holy crap, you are too! Must remember the web is probably 6 degrees (or less).

So, you chose to approach this as a philosophical question tho.

Guess it IS a loveforum. LOL.

PM links would be awesome Ygg, if you have the time. I'm interested.

[lovesjoyajm]

Once again, you are suffering from waning wit. Clearly, you are something of a masochist. Go ask your mommy to water you & see if that helps.

Why do you keep saying that? Can you direct me to one of your brilliantly witty comebacks? ...because I can't recall any.


Can someone elaborate on this mental "loop" you're talking about? I'm intrigued.

[IndiReloaded]

Why do you keep saying that? Can you direct me to one of your brilliantly witty comebacks? ...because I can't recall any.


Can someone elaborate on this mental "loop" you're talking about? I'm intrigued.

Check your PM doll.

[lovesjoyajm]

Check your PM doll.

That didn't answer my second question at all.

Unless this

That's because you are a minion. It is your job to resent your betters. Shrug.

is your example of biting wit.

[doppelgaenger]

Stop being an idiot, Lovejoy.

[IndiReloaded]

Why do you keep saying that? Can you direct me to one of your brilliantly witty comebacks? ...because I can't recall any.

Um, lovejoy, what is YOUR motivation for attacking me just now? Was I posting to you or about you? Have I attacked you? Please find the post where this is so.

You could just try PMing a mod if you have an issue.

[Petit Papillon]

How about you go back to where you came from, you flaming piece of dog shit?

Hahaha You made me laugh for once Dunno why ' piece of dog shit' makes me laugh so much,but thank You