Sick of the whole "numbers game"

[Doc Durian]

Silly child... you're still defending "the game" and expecting others to adhere to it rather than challenge its authenticity.

Maybe he's comfortable with his education levels or body. Maybe he doesn't need to pretend to be someone or something else other than himself. Maybe he's got a natural spring of confidence welling up inside of him and he'd like to find a partner he can relate to without having to play silly games.

You jumped on his comments like flies on cow patty.

It's that pesky insecurity of yours shining through again. That's your greatest shortcoming, Neo. You should work on that.

[Yggdrasil]

Yawwwwwn.....

[Aeradalia]

Seriously, I've heard the whole "dating is a numbers game" thing time and time again, but it really bothers me how big of a disparity there is between women and men when it comes to dating. It really seems like women totally have the upper hand.

As happens often between the battle of the sexes – it ends in a draw. If you follow instincts, men have to play the numbers game and women have the hassle of filtering out a decent man from those who are just desperate to have any woman.

Seriously, I don't understand why a guy can't just approach a girl and there just be a spark right then and there.

Because when you follow instincts instead of your brain, you will end up with a woman you could mate with… not necessarily one you would love. Same is true of a woman who follows instincts and picks the first man who is close’ enough.

I'm getting tired of this whole shotgun/russian roulette approach to dating.

You and the vast majority of the population who aren’t out to just get laid.

Think beyond your instincts. Rather than attempting to ‘hunt down’ a woman, thus finding yourself in a situation where you are bringing about instincts in woman as well… go beyond the game.

Just be yourself, go to places that interest you, that you’re comfortable in which there will be women present. If you go to the places you like, congregate with people who share your interests, and are relaxed enough to be who you really are, this increases the likelihood of attracting a woman you would much rather prefer.

Forget your impatience and focus on enjoying your life… you will be at your happiest and thus far more appealing to a woman with whom you may be more compatible with.

[Raze]

^^ I agree with the above post.

[NeoSeminole]

Doc Durian says:

"Silly child... you're still defending "the game" and expecting others to adhere to it rather than challenge its authenticity."

<yawn> you can't win a debate with me so you call me a "child" instead to make yourself appear more knowledgable? haha, you're so predictable.

"Maybe he's comfortable with his education levels or body. Maybe he doesn't need to pretend to be someone or something else other than himself. Maybe he's got a natural spring of confidence welling up inside of him and he'd like to find a partner he can relate to without having to play silly games."

show me where I suggested the OP pretend to be someone he's not or play silly games to get a woman. I'll wait ;-)

"It's that pesky insecurity of yours shining through again. That's your greatest shortcoming, Neo. You should work on that."

cool. I'll work on that. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for your answer to this question which you conveniently ignored to avoid further humiliation.

when is self-improvement ever unjust to that person?

[Doc Durian]

Doc Durian says:

"Silly child... you're still defending "the game" and expecting others to adhere to it rather than challenge its authenticity."

<yawn> you can't win a debate with me so you call me a "child" instead to make yourself appear more knowledgable? haha, you're so predictable.

You are quite young and naive though, not far out of adolescence. It's a fact, unlike your prior comments such as fag, drama queen, whatever... towards myself.

"Maybe he's comfortable with his education levels or body. Maybe he doesn't need to pretend to be someone or something else other than himself. Maybe he's got a natural spring of confidence welling up inside of him and he'd like to find a partner he can relate to without having to play silly games."

show me where I suggested the OP pretend to be someone he's not or play silly games to get a woman. I'll wait ;-)

You told him to change or alter himself in order to find a partner. Why? Is that what the insecure need to do? Is that what you did, Neo?

"It's that pesky insecurity of yours shining through again. That's your greatest shortcoming, Neo. You should work on that."

cool. I'll work on that. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for your answer to this question which you conveniently ignored to avoid further humiliation.

when is self-improvement ever unjust to that person?

Your definition of self improvement and what you've personally put into practice is a perfect example. It masks insecurity and attracts similarly masked insecure types.

In fact, one really couldn't call it self improvement, rather, self destruction.

I've stood up for this poster because every person on this earth has a perfect lover and friend to find/be with. Someone who accepts them as they are and they to them You're in no condition to be offering advice, Neo. Until your world comes tumbling down and you realize the truths on your own accord, you won't be in any condition.

I suggest you read more and post less.

[NeoSeminole]

Doc Durian says:

"You are quite young and naive though, not far out of adolescence. It's a fact, unlike your prior comments such as fag, drama queen, whatever... towards myself."

my age has nothing to do with this discussion. The fact your only defense is to call me a "child" speaks volumes about the strength (or weakness) of your argument.

"You told him to change or alter himself in order to find a partner. Why? Is that what the insecure need to do? Is that what you did, Neo?"

aww, realize you dug yourself a hole earlier by putting words in my mouth and now you're trying to climb out? Here is your quote earlier.

"Maybe he doesn't need to pretend to be someone or something else other than himself. Maybe he's got a natural spring of confidence welling up inside of him and he'd like to find a partner he can relate to without having to play silly games."

I'm still waiting for you to show me where I suggested the OP pretend to be someone he's not or play silly games to get a woman.

"Your definition of self improvement and what you've personally put into practice is a perfect example. It masks insecurity and attracts similarly masked insecure types."

haha, what is my definition of self-improvement since you seem to have me all figured out? This will be good.

"I've stood up for this poster because every person on this earth has a perfect lover and friend to find/be with. Someone who accepts them as they are and they to them You're in no condition to be offering advice, Neo. Until your world comes tumbling down and you realize the truths on your own accord, you won't be in any condition."

let's see... your advice is to be content with mediocrity and blame others for not recognizing us. Real good advice, idiot. I hope nobody actually listens to you and I feel sorry for your kids(s). You probably praise them when they bring home C's on their report card and discourage them from participating in extracurricular activities.

oh, and you never answered my question. When is self-improvement ever unjust to that person? ;-)

[Yggdrasil]

And another thread is turning into a clash of personalities.

Why can't you guys just get along?

It takes many people and many different personalities to make the world go round, and it would be a very boring place if we would think and act all the same.

You both have vallid points, but it all depends on how the input is received by the OP.

Having these little clashes here, is in my opinion, totaly beyond the reason of the existance of this forum.

Accept your differences and agree to disagree if you can't find middle ground, that's my advice.

[Graham Berkeley]

Cyanosphere, its only a numbers game if you play it that way. Stop acting like a scared little teenager with the whole "i have to work up my courage". I RARELY if ever approach a woman but have them approach me CONSTANTLY. Maybe try sitting back and relaxing and having a little confidence.

[IndiReloaded]

Let me try to un-hijack this thread from the neo-doc show.

Girls don't have it easier ... they usually are looking for more from guys than just getting laid, and have to deal with trying to weed the rare good ones from the abundance of numbers players.

If you play the numbers game just to get laid, it works fairly well ... especially online. But if you play the numbers game hoping to find a quality girlfriend, it's like bringing a football to a basketball court ... wrong game.

So when people tell you that when you stop trying so hard, good things happen, listen to them grasshopper. The shotgun approach sends two unattractive messages to most girls: (1) "I'm desparately horny," and (2) "YOUR vagina will do just fine."

When you meet a girl you find attractive, drop your silly pick up lines and have a conversation with her. Talk about things in common, things that are important to her, things that are important to you (other than your d**k). If you hit it off, and she finds you attractive, then and only then will things start to happen.

Good luck.

Carl.

OMG, I am so glad Carl is posting again.

I think that Neo and Doc would both agree with this. But they come at it from different perspectives.

My guess is that Neo would agree but would also argue that in order for ^this to happen, a guy has to have acquired enough confidence to be able to make this type of open exchange happen. And a lot of young guys just don't have that ability. It seems to come with practice.

Doc, is totally right. The BS games have to stop at some point (ideally never happen). A mature, self-confident man doesn't need them. But I think its a rare young man that has that kind of confidence naturally. Kudos to the parents of such a young man.

So, maybe many young guys can improve by having *some* kind of plan they follow? One they eventually discard for their own design once they have enough confidence/experience/success?

[Raze]

Cyanosphere, its only a numbers game if you play it that way. Stop acting like a scared little teenager with the whole "i have to work up my courage". I RARELY if ever approach a woman but have them approach me CONSTANTLY. Maybe try sitting back and relaxing and having a little confidence.

I agree that you shouldn't have to work up the courage, but you still need initiative. It's pretty good advice, but if that doesn't work, then you're going to have to approach them and just be confident. Also, be yourself and just be funny. If things don't work, so what? It's not the end of the world. You can easily pick yourself back up, my friend. There are plenty of girls out there. Don't be too bummed out if you stumble and fall down a few times, that will happen so don't beat yourself up about it.

[carl1222]

Thanks for the welcome back, Indi.

I had to chuckle a bit at your analysis because, ironically, the approach I suggest takes LESS confidence than playing the pickup numbers game. If a guy approaches girls he finds attractive with a simple "hello" and engages her in a non-romantic conversation, she is far less likely to reject him outright. Even if she does, it's less a comment on his attractiveness and more a comment on her rudeness, conceit or defensiveness.

I must admit, though, that my strategy requires a bit of skill and experience to avoid being constantly "friend zoned." But even if it only accumulates friends at first, it gives a guy lots of experience with casual interaction with girls ... all of whom have girlfriends they would be happy to fix him up with.

Don't be clever, be interesting. It's a lot more productive.

Carl.

[Cyanosphere]

Man... I'll tell ya.. I've noticed as soon as a guy stops playing the game. Things just happen. I had a deal with an ex of a year not long ago. As soon as I quit worrying about women and actually wasn't trying. Women started coming to me at the bar and at parties. All I was doing was kicking it with the guys and opportunity started showing up. Even the ex came around to work on things, and I thought, why not. I even remember back when I met her, I had the same mentality. I gave her a little bit of attention but there were 3 other women that were talking to me that night too. Just remember its not a game.. And it doesn't really matter what happens if your being you... do what makes you happy. Things just happen when your excited about you and a little self centered. (keep in mind being self centered and selfish are two different things, its important to be self centered and motivated about your life, but bad to be selfish)

I tried the whole "doing my own thing, let the girls come to me" thing after my previous ex broke up with me last Christmas. I didn't approach girls or try to talk to chat them up. That didn't work at all. I went without a date for months. No girls were coming to me.

It wasn't until May that I decided to try and be the one to make the first move and went on that little binge of approaching women.

[Cyanosphere]

Get to where you don't see it as a game and get to where you feel like if you see a girl that you want to talk to there isn't an if... you'll get the number.. (just don't try to hard, that makes it seem a little needy, sometimes its best not to ask and wait for next time ya run into them, or let them ask lol) I'm saying be confident. It rubs off on people. Most of the time if you are confident you will get what you want.. it will happen. Before long you'll be shooting the breeze with a handful of women, dating having a good time, just care free, one will show up and boom! Spark just like ya asked about, and all you did was be cool and know your a bad ass. I've noticed the spark doesn't usually show up when the guy tries hard to light it, so you just bring the matches, let them start the fire.

Well, when I saw a girl I wanted to talk to, I would be really nervous at first and would have to kick-my-own-ass mentally into doing it. When I first started talking to them, I may have come off as nervous or timid, but if she was receptive and chatting back and we had a good exchange going, I would get more bold and confident.

I'd be stoked when I went for the number and she would give it to me. But at the same time, I'd be let down later by how most of these girls flaked later when I called or texted them asking them out.

I don't get that.

Ladies: why give out your number to a guy if you're not going to go out with him? Why get our hopes up like that?

[Cyanosphere]

think about it. Why would a woman want you if your success rate is 1/30? If other women won't take you, then why should she? Rather than b*tch about it online, try to improve yourself and become more desirable.

So when people tell you that when you stop trying so hard, good things happen, listen to them grasshopper. The shotgun approach sends two unattractive messages to most girls: (1) "I'm desparately horny," and (2) "YOUR vagina will do just fine."

That doesn't make any sense; every time I try to talk to a new girl, how could she possibly know about the previous girls I approached?

How could she possibly come to the conclusion that I've been using the shotgun approach?

It's not like I'm going up saying "Hey, you're 4th girl I've come up and talked to all week. I'm Cyanosphere by the way."