Has the US lost its edge permanently?

[SirWagginston]

haha, yeah right. Of the top 20 schools in the world, the US has 17 or 18 of them. The other 2 non-US schools being Oxford and Cambridge

So? Americans are significantly worse at math, science, history and geography than citizens of other developed countries. Some of the countries the United States is at war with can't even be located on a map by its average citizen.

[Lipp]

So? Americans are significantly worse at math, science, history and geography than citizens of other developed countries. Some of the countries the United States is at war with can't even be located on a map by its average citizen.

In a nutshell

Europeans, generally speaking, are more interested in producing an end result that is close to economic equality or which is economically “fair” to all. Americans, on the other hand, are less interested in ensuring everyone maintains a certain minimum level and are more interested in making sure each individual has a higher opportunity for unlimited success or unlimited failure. Americans value monetary rewards higher, while Europeans value quality of life rewards greater. America is set up to grow richer monetarily, while the EU is set up to grow richer in quality of life.

These are simply two different choices the EU and the USA make. Americans do not want the social welfare state and higher taxes of Europe, while Europeans do not want the higher potential for individual economic failure that is possible in America.

Which pretty much maps onto education and the military so far, and is quite fine. Only thing is that I can't help but smile and shake my head at the whole "we're saving the world with our humongous aid contributions" attitude.

[SirWagginston]

It's not a cliche. It's a statistical fact that has been confirmed by numerous studies. Americans are worse at the aforementioned subjects, with geography being the worst. The reason, I think, is not stupidity, but arrogance. Americans have a feeling of superiority that leads them to assume that knowledge of other countries and their cultures is unnecessary. The attitude that things happening outside America don't matter is way too prevalent. Americans are even clueless about Canada, their closest ally. I've spoken to Americans who don't know the main language in Canada, who think Canada is a third world country, and who don't realize there are actual cities up there. I've even once heard someone say, "Canada? That's, like, in Europe somewhere, right?"

[dewilliams2]

It's not a cliche. It's a statistical fact that has been confirmed by numerous studies. Americans are worse at the aforementioned subjects, with geography being the worst. The reason, I think, is not stupidity, but arrogance. Americans have a feeling of superiority that leads them to assume that knowledge of other countries and their cultures is unnecessary. The attitude that things happening outside America don't matter is way too prevalent. Americans are even clueless about Canada, their closest ally. I've spoken to Americans who don't know the main language in Canada, who think Canada is a third world country, and who don't realize there are actual cities up there. I've even once heard someone say, "Canada? That's, like, in Europe somewhere, right?"

Then you hang around morons. I will not deny some countries have surpassed the U.S. in Math and Science especially countries like Japan and India. However I am unfamiliar about studies that have said similar things on geography.

Do keep in mind though I was born and raised in Indiana. I'm a classical historian. I can name cities around the world not only with their contemporary name but also with their ancient names....many cities having multiple ancient known names. So as I said, your hanging around morons...a few ignorant people is hardly a good pool of people to survey in judging the overall knowledge of Americans.

[SirWagginston]

I've come into a lot more contact with Americans than you obviously have

Um, no you haven't. I'm a dual citizen. I grew up in Washington DC, and chose later to settle down in Canada.

[SirWagginston]

No you haven't WHAT?

Seriously? Maybe this edit will help.

[SirWagginston]

Hahaha, me a bigot. I think I would have to be the only bigot in the world that can locate Iraq on a map. That's actually pretty cool, given that [URL="http://www.rferl.org/content/Article/1068259.html"]the majority of Americans can't[/URL].

Other fun facts: an international ranking of countries by citizens' geography knowledge puts America in 149th place. A Gallup study of 9 random countries puts us in second-to-last, ahead of Mexico... as if beating Mexico is a big deal.

This isn't me jumping on a stereotyping bandwagon. This is the simple truth. Americans have substandard knowledge of the world outside their country because moreso than people from other countries, Americans think that shit doesn't matter.

[IndiReloaded]

We are talking about averages, DM. Sadly its true. The average European, or Canadian even, knows more about the world than the average American. We went through this whole exercise once where I showed that if you normalize by population, Canada punches way above its weight for Nobel Prizes in science compared to the US. Same for Winter Olympic gold medals. No, wait, that was an absolute ranking.

Instead of arguing with what has been established before, you could apply that energy to understanding the why of it. Or what to do about it. Or perhaps the average isn't really even what's important. Ten Einsteins among a million idiots may still be worth more than only 1 in 10.

[IndiReloaded]

And what you are saying is a bigoted thing to say. That Americans are stupid. I hate Canadians and maybe that makes me a bigot, but if so at least I'll admit it

Is it bigoted to say if its true? US leaders should be appalled at those statistics. You can hate all you want, its your personal choice to do so, but facts are still facts.

[SirWagginston]

You don't even know what bigot means. Recognizing a fact does not make you a bigot. If I had said, "Americans tend to be worse at intellectual subjects, therefore all Americans are stupid, therefore we should all treat them like shit," then that would be bigoted.

[SirWagginston]

You realize that Canada is also a heterogeneous society, right? Per capita, immigration is higher in Canada than in the US.

[IndiReloaded]

Right, but 16 of those 18 are in sciences. But you are right, the ratio favours the US for sure.

You want to compare "whites"? If that is your comparison then I would say that US or Canada doesn't matter. We are all from the same European stock a gen or two back regardless.

Your immigrants are educated and motivated Indians and Asians. Our immigrants are uneducated Mexicans

The US is 13% black. Canada is 2.5% black. Not an apples to apples comparison

Are you saying that non-white are bringing the US down? Wow. DM. Those people make up your country, like it or not.

[SirWagginston]

Are you serious? You think the lower-caste peasants we take from India are highly educated? You think those tribal villagers from Pakistan are coming here straight out of college? Sure, there are a lot of educated Chinese kids, here, but if they were well-off when they came here, they will probably go back. Long-term Chinese immigrants come from poor families, or else why would they leave?

[IndiReloaded]

It is quite appalling to have more than twice the Nobel prizes as Canada, per person

Moreover, almost EVERY Canadian who did win a Nobel prize came to the US for their education. lulz

Yes, I did bring it up, you are right, per capita you have more. I wonder what my point was the last time? Maybe that 16 or 18 of Canadian Nobels were in science. And that the US has an awful lot of "not born in the US" beside those names.

Its not helping the average person tho. A great education system for the cream, but not for the masses.

You ignored my point, DM. The US has imported their Nobel prize winners, same as Canada except US has been at it for longer. And, you are a math guy, so you know that a larger pool to draw from does skew the numbers.

I guess that 13% vs. 2% immigrant ratio will bear fruit in the next few decades for Canada, but I think that is not the issue.

[SirWagginston]

Being white is actually not a strong indicator of knowledge about the world. The highest-ranking country in terms of geographical awareness was Kazakhstan.