What's really going on? I can't figure it out.

[Tonia2]

Isn't cycle great? You sound so similar to me, and your story has so many similarities too (although I have to say that my bloke is not emotionally abusive in the same way). Mine is of a similar age and I am the same age as you, and he keeps vasillating day to day about what he wants. Your guy seems stuck in the same trap of being desperate for the fantasy of a nuclear family but terrified of commitment.

My man is very very nice, but in his worse moments, he has also accused me of 'letting myself go' etc. and focusing on my negative points. To an extent he was right, as the lack of commitment had undermined my already shaky self-esteem to the point where I did let myself go.

Read my post if you want anymore identification. Cycle, I am out with him tomorrow and will let you know how it goes. Had many calls yesterday and lots of emails pinning me down to when I could do some fun stuff he has suggested today...

[cycletease]

ycle, I am out with him tomorrow and will let you know how it goes. Had many calls yesterday and lots of emails pinning me down to when I could do some fun stuff he has suggested today...

Anxious for the update, I hope everything went well!

[natashab]

Well, after an immensely crazy week full of self-denial, tears, wishful thinking, confusion and anger, I'm a little better.

BUT.... there are things I'm not too clear on and would appreciate if anyone has any advice....?

We haven't spoken since I called him the Tuesday (2 days) after he ended it. (In that conversation he still sounded 'angry' and not himself). I emailed him a practical question about the electricity bill (the bill that started off the break-up). He replied with the detail I needed and said "I hope you're ok. I'm really sorry for hurting you". I didn't respond. I thought, "If he wants to know... he can ASK me instead of making it a statement". Then a few days later I had to text him to ask him to email me some work & study related files from the computer where we were living together (where he is living now .. I'm at my parents). So he texted back, telling me to email the list of files to a different email account, and again says "I hope you're ok".

His email with the files said "Let me know if you need anything else. Take care".

I haven't responded to any of this "hope you're ok" "sorry for hurting you" stuff. I thought, if he wants to know how I am, he knows my number! I'm not going to indulge him in all that "I miss you" "I'm hurting so much" stuff ... not after the way he behaved and the way he ended it.

I've been going through this situation with all my good friends. They (and many of you!) have made me accept that I didn't deserve his angry/hurtful behaviour, that it was wrong and that it looks like he has a problem. I have been getting angry with some memories, realising the ways in which he was so unkind, and how I let him get away with disrespecting me etc. I should have put my foot down sooner, but you live and learn.

Anyway... he's a very, very stubborn person. He has cut people close to him out of his life before (Best friend, close brother etc) over stupid things like money. It's what he does, and when he has a bit of clarity, he knows it's unhealthy. For a long time, I have suggested therapy.

So, he's ended things with me a few times before, in the midst of his angry moods, and then, after my texting or calling to ask if he was ok (I do worry about him, and I know I probably shouldn't have contacted him, but hey, you live and learn), he would tell me how sick he feels for hurting me, how sorry he was, how he didn't know why he does what he does etc. Before Christmas this happened, & one of his text messages said "I've been thinking a lot about therapy. I think I have some sort of emotional deficit". More stuff like "You don't deserve this", "you're the last person in the world I want to hurt" and thinking I'd decided to end it because he mis-interpreted my text message said "I'm glad you've come to the right decision" (i.e. to leave him... he's sometimes say he thought I would leave him).

Trouble is, the last few days I've been thinking along the lines of.... is he REALLY out of love with me like he says, or is he just doing his 'crazy' thing and now regretting/or going to regret it. You see, he was ANGRY when he ended it, so I don't trust that his decision was actually a considered, final decision.

The thing is, he's really bad at making the first move to reconcile, with anyone, ever. Very stubborn, full of pride. So my No-contact....is it the right thing to do? Aren't I being as stubborn as him? Or should he be the one to call me? But if I don't call, I'm afraid it'll be so long before we talk about this.

I've decided that if he goes for therapy, I will 'consider' giving it a go, (start dating him again, not move back in). So what if he's come to that decision but thinks there's no chance for us, so he's not contacting me? And that my no-contact proves I don't love him/want to be with him. But surely, if you love someone enough, you will risk it. There is a part of me that remembers clearly his statement "I can't keep doing this to you". Perhaps he's just decided to end it 'for me'.

I think I could be going through extreme self-denial. Perhaps he simply doesn't want anything to do with me anymore... but only the past few months we were talking about getting our parents over to Dublin to meet eachother, he called me excited 3 weeks ago to tell me he could get a higher loan for a mortage together, he sent me several texts to say how much he loved me, he bought me a very touching valentines card and wrote how all the words on the card described how he felt. (He's never been very expressive at all, but this was a sweet way of getting round that)

So, can you see why I might be confused about his feelings? That when he said we weren't right for eachother and that he wasn't in love with me anymore, it may have been his angry, irrational side talking. And that now he's calmed down, he might be missing me...?

I spoke to his sister (we're close), she said he's not talking about it (I believe her... this is the way he reacts to things). The only thing that he said to her was "it wasn't fair on either of us to stay together, we weren't right for eachother, it's hard, but we will get over it".

Surely if this was his considered decision, he would have said it calmly, not in the midst of a blazing row, he might have called me to actually find out if I was ok, he wouldn't have said the things he said recently which indicated commitment. Or maybe he's just doing it in the only way he knows: "I'm not in love with her anymore, I'm cutting her off, it's for the best".... But remember that 2 days previous to him ending it, we had our first session of relationship counselling, and expressed he wanted to make it work, and afterwards said he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me..... ??!?!?!?!?!?


Do I stay with no-contact and see what happens? I worry that if I keep no-contact, I'll push him further away and he'll get on with his life ASAP thinking that's it, it's over. I just don't feel he's missing me, or upset by this. Or could he be hiding it?? Or maybe it REALLY is what he WANTS!!

Confused confused confused. Sorry for long post. But I just don't know what's going on. Thank you. Any advice or thoughts?

[natashab]

P.S. I have been missing him so much, despite the anger, and it's been so very hard not calling or emailing him. I've also had urges to go back to the flat to talk to him....but I have resisted thus far..... SIGH

[natashab]

P.P.S. Sorry!!!!!!!!!!! Just thought, as it ended in a row, would it be reasonable of me, or stupid, to ask if we could have closure, so I can at least understand how he arrived at his decision and how long he was feeling that way? Just to get things clearer in my head. Believe me, I am not pinning my hopes on a reunion, and this past week I have been making a great effort to come to terms with it being over. I just feel we need to have an adult conversation about this, which we haven't had since the row in which he ended it with me.

[Paxes]

Hi natashab, I was in the middle of replying to you and it got refrsh ... Urgg ... Nooooo my ex dumped me . I am very very very much like you in the thinking process and everything . It's just that I happened to be the male. I told her to have an adult conversation for me to have closure too . But she was very very mean . Believe me, I know how you feel. Ok quick post so it won't go blank again .

[confusedsoul]

well am with Paxes..
I dont think I can comment on how much he loves you, and whether he has good intentions to get back and work on things (it could be true), but really its not worth it.. DONT GO FOR THAT CLOSURE. Certain things are better left the way they are, even if you say "I have made great efforts to come to the terms of it being over", once you see him things will suddenly change, those urges would be back in a second.

Forgive me if am wrong, but I feel this still has lot to do with you feeling that you deserved it or the fact that you are trying to find positives out of situation. I sincerely feel you have had enough, take your time to think over it rationally, dont try to justify his actions or to interpret them the way you are currently interpreting. I know its hard, I have gone through this myself and I can very well see you must be CURSING ME for all this advice. But frankly you need time off, give that time. If he comes to you,then make sure you have that ADULT DISCUSSION.

Hope you dont mind such a nasty piece of advice. I went for that closure, my ex was as cold as she could have been and I kept wondering if I really deserved it all.
(am sorry but I see similarities between our behaviors, so am this much open bout my advice)

[diablo robotico]

Hi natashab,

Okay, firstly I hope you are still keeping up your no contact policy. I think it's important, even with all the things that are swirling around in your head.

Here's the thing - until he shows a prolonged and honest desire to CHANGE, you're never gonna be happy with him. You should not consider going back to him until he's shown to you, through ongoing therapy (we're talking at least 6 months here) that he's serious about improving himself. There's still a real possibility that he's bipolar, in which case, he'd also needs meds to keep himself balanced.

So, in the long run, it doesn't matter if he still loves you and he regrets his decision made in anger. If he doesn't change, it's just gonna happen again. Over and over again. And you'll be made to feel like sh*t every time.

Oh, and "closure" is overrated.

[cycletease]

I am sorry you have had such a rough week. I am proud of you for not calling him, that is tough to do. You are doing the right thing with the No Contact. I know that it defies what you actually want and you would like to talk yourself out of it, but it is the right course.

A couple of things. Your guy knows where you are at, you have had some limited contact. He did not tell you that he wants to talk about things, he did not say he made a mistake, he is not knocking on your parents door...he is showing concern that you are "ok" with things...not that he wants to change things. I am sorry, but I don't get that he wants to get back together from what you have described.

You spend a lot of time in your post wondering about how he is feeling. Does he maybe still love you? Is he just being stubborn, did he love you before, if he didn't love you why would he do these things?...etc. You spend so much time, in fact, talking about him that I don't hear much about you... Where are you? Have you slipped away from us entirely? This is not all about him!

You have spent so much of your time fixating on wanting him back that you have not thought about why you would want such a thing. This guy is BAD for you. Why do you feel that you *need* to get back together with him? Why do you *need* him to love you? These are questions that you need to answer for yourself and are far more important than if he loves you.

I would say that he probably does love you, that he is a nut job, really messed up and is abusive to you as such. The more he gets away with abusing you the less respect he has for you so the more he does it.

You are trying to find a line of reasoning that will make it ok for you to contact him...there isn't one. I know that you want his reassurance, that you want his love and I also know that it is unhealthy and that you need to stop yourself. So, if you are trying to convince yourself that it is juvenile not to talk, you are wrong. If you are trying to convince yourself that you need to help him and therefore you should contact him, you should not. DO NOT CONTACT HIM.

I don't want to hurt you and I know that hearing this will do just that. I am not here to tell you what you want to hear, though. I am here to look out for your well being and tell you what you *need* to hear. THERE IS NO GOING BACK TO THIS GUY.

No matter how determined you are you cannot make this work. Relationships don't work frequently, this forum is full of people who's relationships haven't worked. People go on and live happy, productive lives and get in new relationships and learn from their past ones. This is what you are going to do, too.

You are going to accept that this didn't work. You are going to use that fabulous mind of yours to analyze why it didn't work and how it was bad for you and you are going to learn to make the next one better. You are going to make yourself the new subject of your greatest concern and you are going to take care of yourself better. You deserve to be happy and loved and cared for and supported. The fact that did not get these things from this relationship are not your failures, they are his. You are loveable and deserving and you are missing out on all of the potential mates that would love to have you because you are so damned determined that this guy should.

You cannot change him you can only change yourself. Now get to work!

[natashab]

Thank you ... you have all helped in your responses so much. I have stuck resolutely to no-contact since my slip-up the day after the breakup, and I shall continue with this, because it is good for me in so many ways. He also hasn't contacted me.

Without contact, I am able to have the space to look at myself - you are so right cycle, I kind of lost my wants and needs in this mess, always putting him first, always worrying about his feelings etc.

The mind and heart is a funny old thing.... The last couple of days have been a breakthrough for me. It's probably because I've been talking this to death with my friends, trying to look at all angles of the whole situation, and because of the help I've received in this forum. A small part of me thinks there must be something wrong for me to be feeling so strong so quickly..... I'm aware, however, that it could be a phase, and I might soon rapidly decline again. I will try my hardest to maintain this strength.

Since the break-up I have been making a big effort to see and go out with all my friends. What I have realised in this past week or so is how many wonderful people I have in my life who seem to genuinely care for me and wellbeing. I am so lucky to have this source of support. I've also been having fun and acting my age! It's been refreshing to see the lighter side of myself coming out, the silly jokes and stunts.

I've been reflecting on the past few years. The problems in our relationship crept up slowly, and as time went on I accepted more and more LACK of respect, I was unable to see exactly what was happening in front of my nose.

For goodness sakes, the things he raged at me about were so trivial and clearly did not warrant his complete over-reactions. Moreover, despite the great stuff he would say to me when things were good, the hurtful stuff he said and did (like ignoring me for days) when things were bad had a big impact on my self-esteem and self-image. I realise I haven't been happy for a long time.... I didn't realise this 2 weeks ago.

I think I tried to be firm with him, but I wasn't firm enough. I need to look at why I allowed him to treat me the way he did.

I am feeling kind of positive about my future. My friends & family have really bolstered my self-esteem. I realise that I need some ME time. I was in my 1st relationship for 5 years and then with my ex for almost 3 years... I haven't actually had ME time as an adult.

I'm making plans to find a house to rent with one of my good friends. It is going to happen, and I am absolutely 100% sticking to it. I'm also feeling motivated again about my degree.

It's not to say I don't feel so very sad about what has happened, and that I am not missing my ex like mad, but I see clearly now how the situation just wasn't good for me. I realise that my faults have been exaggarated and that my strengths have been overlooked, to a degree.

And I am angry. What right did he have to *want* to hurt me? And why? After the storms he would admit that he wanted to hurt me with his words, because he felt I was hurting him. But now I look back and am confident that I never DID or SAID anything to hurt him... it was imagined. I did not deserve the hurt.

One of the things he said was that I have let myself go ... infact, my friends say that in the past few months, I've never looked better - they were shocked by this. You've put on weight, he would say. I'm actually a dress size smaller than when I met him, and when he 'fell in love with me'. I went out last night and noticed male attention, instead of dismissing it and believing it wasn't directed at me.

So if he was wrong about this, he was probably wrong about other stuff....

It's hard. I miss him. I wish he'd got help, I hope he gets help. But I'm not beating myself up about it, telling myself I'm un-lovable and that it was all my fault for not being good enough.

But there still is a part of me that thinks maybe I have made it out to be worse than it was...... maybe I pushed him to his anger, maybe I made it happen....

As you can see... I'm still getting there

[cycletease]

SUPER PROUD OF YOU! You are doing so great. The whole tone of this post is different! Whatever it is you are doing, keep at it. You can't expect yourself to be over him in a few days...anyone would still be mourning and sad. Keep at working on yourself, going out, getting a new place. I think at the end of all of this you are going to be really much happier.

[diablo robotico]

Big thumbs up from me too! It's great what's happening to you, natashab!

As a side note, I've had no contact with my dumper for going on two weeks. It's horribly difficult, but I find myself acting and feeling happier lately. Laughing at jokes, making jokes, feeling sociable again! It feels nice. I miss her a *bunch*, but I no longer feel desperate or forsaken. Just have to keep it up. There's so many times during the day when you say to yourself "I'll just drop a quick email..." or something like that. But it would undo everything.

[cycletease]

Big thumbs up from me too! It's great what's happening to you, natashab!

As a side note, I've had no contact with my dumper for going on two weeks. It's horribly difficult, but I find myself acting and feeling happier lately. Laughing at jokes, making jokes, feeling sociable again! It feels nice. I miss her a *bunch*, but I no longer feel desperate or forsaken. Just have to keep it up. There's so many times during the day when you say to yourself "I'll just drop a quick email..." or something like that. But it would undo everything.

You are doing great! Glad you are working through this...it is tough but it works itself out.

[natashab]

Thanks guys - glad you are doing better diablo. Nice one.

But ... despite the strength I am feeling. I still have a nagging voice that, like his sisters have said to me, this split might be the kick up the a*se he needs to do something about his problems.... how likely is this? I know...not very likely....

His family say I'm the best thing that ever happened to him. They've seen him very happy with me. How could he let me go like that?

Also... I *know* I shouldn't be thinking about it, but I have to be honest, I am still wondering if he misses me. It hurts to think that after almost 3 years together, and our history and my support, that he's happy with this and unaffected... Do you think he ever loved me? If he ever loved me, wouldn't he have contacted me to see if I'm ok?

Ok... I'm backtracking........ badly...... get strong natasha.....

[diablo robotico]

You know what, though? These doubt feelings you are voicing are very normal. I have them all the time. I keep asking stuff like that: "Does she miss me?" "Doesn't she realize that she's making a huge mistake?" Stuff like that. But I just drive them out of my head, forcibly! And make myself think of something else. Truth is, maybe all the stuff you're wondering about is all true. Maybe he does still love you and miss you. But does it make any difference? NO! Not if he doesn't seriously get help. If you get back together, you'll just fall into the same patterns as before. Or he will anyway, and you'll be miserable again.

Tell his sisters to do an intervention or something. Leave the honus on them to get him to heal. You've got your own healing to do, and you're coming along splendidly!