"Nice Guys"

[Prodigal]

I understand what you are saying - I don't necessarily even disagree too much on a macro level, but I think you underestimate that some people are in fact, just simply kind by nature. I am not personally what I would consider kind by nature, but I am fairly generous (on a selective basis - I am not a sucker). I gain pleasure in being generous, but I expect nothing in return, and in fact prefer to give anonymously. Sometimes a kiss is just a kiss.

Lol, strange... I was arguing on it because I thought you said that you didn't care about the motivation. I know that some people are like you: fairly generous, kind by nature, do it for the sake of being kind. These are the people I'm arguing FOR. I'd much, much more appreciate something small from someone like this (the motivation is being kind), than something big from someone who has some ulterior motive for doing it.

[shh!]

Ha! I must of misunderstood your angle! Ok, I'll stop arguing with you now.
:-D

[MrDrum]

The problem with "nice guys" isn't the fact that they are nice, sensative, etc... The problem, is that most of them (most not all) are panseys. They can't or don't know how to stand up for themselves, they coudn't defend themselves if they were in a physical confrontation, they can't take charge or control when needed, and are indicisive.

Women don't like that. That is why you always see the "jerks" With the women. Women like a real man! They don't want a MEAN guy, or a jerkoff, or a guy that disrespects them, but they like assertive, confident guys that know how to stand up!

It's a primal thing, I am afraid to say. The stronger provider wins the girl, every time. But that doesn't mean the big strapping provider can't be sensative to her needs, open the car door, be a friend when she needs an ear, etc... the KEY is to have a balance of it all.

[artyemi]

Good call. My words were careless..this is the propper explanation.

Yet....

Physical beauty doesn't necessarily have a direct relationship to being either a good person or bad..

So one could say you're lowering your standards as far as what YOU want to see in the opposite sex. Doesn't have to be physical. Maybe you want someone who has an IQ of 150 and both of the girls you know who meet this quality don't care for you....maybe you can scale back five points and go for a 145'er.

Don't have time to read through all of the posting.

But, this is what I usually say. When you find that person, eventually, you'll scale back your scale. People don't often realize they're doing it. It just happens.

[whaywardj]

The stronger provider wins the girl, every time.

Convenient idea, as far as it goes. Starts falling apart as a general principle when you ask, "Provider of WHAT?"

Not all women, by any means, require the same set of provisions. Nor do many among those even want them.

[MrDrum]

Convenient idea, as far as it goes. Starts falling apart as a general principle when you ask, "Provider of WHAT?"

Not all women, by any means, require the same set of provisions. Nor do many among those even want them.

It's a subconcious thing.. that is my point.

[artyemi]

Hey, you guys ever heard of my boat analogy?

It's like, if you want to go sailing, you'd take out a sail boat, right, and not a canoe.

If you want to go on a cruise, you don't take out one of those paddling things.

[Asip4u]

The problem with "nice guys" isn't the fact that they are nice, sensative, etc... The problem, is that most of them (most not all) are panseys. They can't or don't know how to stand up for themselves, they coudn't defend themselves if they were in a physical confrontation, they can't take charge or control when needed, and are indicisive.

Women don't like that. That is why you always see the "jerks" With the women. Women like a real man! They don't want a MEAN guy, or a jerkoff, or a guy that disrespects them, but they like assertive, confident guys that know how to stand up!

It's a primal thing, I am afraid to say. The stronger provider wins the girl, every time. But that doesn't mean the big strapping provider can't be sensative to her needs, open the car door, be a friend when she needs an ear, etc... the KEY is to have a balance of it all.

The wonderful thing about life is that every type is out there so there is no such a thing as "women don't like men that are this/that..."

[whaywardj]

It's a subconcious thing.. that is my point.

That's what I'm disagreeing with. It might be YOUR thing, but it's not everyone's, by a long shot.

[MrDrum]

That's what I'm disagreeing with. It might be YOUR thing, but it's not everyone's, by a long shot.

Well, I am not here to debate whether or not people are attacted to others because of genetics, and ones ability to provide genetcially superior offspring and/or provide for a family. It is a biological fact. Its the basics of how all speciese develop, humans are no different.

I'm just saying, based on those facts, you can see why it's typical that girls seem to go for the more agressive guys the OP was discussing, and why the shy, quiet, overly nice guys seem to have a more difficult time.

[whaywardj]

Interesting argument, survival of the fittest and all, and much validity. However, there's a whole layer of human technology which puts a wrinkle in the absolute character of the origins theory. The naturalist, Konrad Lorenz, articulated it first, I believe, in "Naked Ape" where he discussed natural weapons and natural defenses against them. He theorized that human technology creates a disconnect in genetic evolution. Case in point: Fangs. Humans have canines but they are de-evolved because the creation of the knife eliminated any need for them. Similarly, upper body mass has decreased over time because building technology reduced the need for upper body strength that was once applied to escape predators by climbing trees. And so on. Just because it's in the genes doesn't mean it doesn't change. In fact, it's just the oppposite. Genes ARE change.

[Tone]

This thread turned into some interesting discussion.

[MrDrum]

Interesting argument, survival of the fittest and all, and much validity. However, there's a whole layer of human technology which puts a wrinkle in the absolute character of the origins theory. The naturalist, Konrad Lorenz, articulated it first, I believe, in "Naked Ape" where he discussed natural weapons and natural defenses against them. He theorized that human technology creates a disconnect in genetic evolution. Case in point: Fangs. Humans have canines but they are de-evolved because the creation of the knife eliminated any need for them. Similarly, upper body mass has decreased over time because building technology reduced the need for upper body strength that was once applied to escape predators by climbing trees. And so on. Just because it's in the genes doesn't mean it doesn't change. In fact, it's just the oppposite. Genes ARE change.

What you say is true. That is just basic evolution. We are also a foot or two taller than primitive humans, and for the first time in millions of years (the last hundred or so) people are starting to be born without moler's (teeth) in the first place. There are millions of evolutionary changes going on all the time, and always have. But the basic human need to pick the best mate for the family, whether it be to defend, protect, provide, good genetics, etc... is still there. Sure it has changed, and may not be like it was however long ago, but it is still there.

Obviously it isn't as black and white as it may of sounded in my first reply, I was speaking in general terms. Obviously everybody is different, have different tastes, and have developed different dispositions as to what would be a "good mate"... but in general that is how it works, and may be a tad bit of insight as to why the "tough guy" tends to get the girls, as the OP was referring to. TENDS to.. not always.

[updraft]

Here here! I say its a great thing to acknowledge the nice guys out there! I dated a string of assholes, had a baby with one, married another, and believe me i so much wanted a nice guy. I finally found my nice guy and we've been together a year and a half....ITA, nice guys get a bad rap and undue hardship in the dating realm. Its so true there are so many women who play games with nice men that it gives them no hope...i say these women are not worth pining over!!! The nice guys are just feeding their egos....just my 2 cents

[Only-virgins]

So much talk about this. I have yet to meet these "not nice" people.