Human Trash

[qwertz]

I've been working with exotic animals since I was 15...would you like to teach me a better way to teach a Siberian tiger to not put its mouth on me...it may be cute when its a 30 lb cub but when its 800 lbs and 12 ft long nose to tail its not nearly as cute....trust me, carrot and stick method works.

All the animals I have been bitten by are animals who have not been trained.

while were on the subject, the only dogs(and ive worked with ALOT) ive been bitten by are the ones i know have had harsh physical punishment used on them. All the good and respected trainers have ended the use of physical punishment of dogs(or animals) realising that it is not correct/fair nor kind. Yet people still hit their kids. The mind boggles.

[dewilliams2]

this ain't gonna be me.

I hate that movie...I can sit around and watch war movies and not get stressed out...you get some women yelling it stresses my ass out.

[dewilliams2]

while were on the subject, the only dogs(and ive worked with ALOT) ive been bitten by are the ones i know have had harsh physical punishment used on them. All the good and respected trainers have ended the use of physical punishment of dogs(or animals) realising that it is not correct/fair nor kind. Yet people still hit their kids. The mind boggles.

I'm not talking about beating for the sake of beating...once again several pages back I said that all spankings come with a lesson and if the lesson is not conveyed then regardless of the punishment type, the punishment is wasted.

I would say that yes beating an animal out of anger and not teaching it anything is pointless. When I start with a tiger when its little I will smack it on the nose with a pencil and give a command in a deep voice...when it gets to 800 lbs I use nothing bigger than the end of a cut off broom handle. But by that age I don't usually have to us it...I just have to keep it in my back pocket.

Those who beat animals and those who train animals are two different things.

When an animal behaves I also give a treat after I do a show or if it behaves for me to check its mouth or other medical procedure.

[vashti]

Physical pain is useless because it's forgotten easily, it goes as quick as it comes, it's not a good way to teach anything to anyone, not even animals.

I've had to deal with a lot of kids (some awfully misbehaving kids when they were around their parents) and they always followed my rules without need of any kind of punishment, if you show them you are not going to let them do what they want they don't do it.

The vast majority of kids are inherently interested in gaining their parent's approval, which makes spanking unnecessary. Those that aren't interested in gaining their parents approval have something severely wrong with them, and spanking won't work.

[qwertz]

No...you continue to miss the points of my arguments...if read any further I told you I placed the two extremes to point out that there are more than just the way in which we discipline that goes into raising a child.

Of course there is more than discipline that goes into raising a child, but the argument here is the use of discipline. the answers you gave as options just dont matter, no one is going to have to make that choice straight out like that. You in fact only chose one extreme, to work in 'your' favour.

[qwertz]

I'm not talking about beating for the sake of beating...once again several pages back I said that all spankings come with a lesson and if the lesson is not conveyed then regardless of the punishment type, the punishment is wasted.

I would say that yes beating an animal out of anger and not teaching it anything is pointless. When I start with a tiger when its little I will smack it on the nose with a pencil and give a command in a deep voice...when it gets to 800 lbs I use nothing bigger than the end of a cut off broom handle. But by that age I don't usually have to us it...I just have to keep it in my back pocket.

Those who beat animals and those who train animals are two different things.

When an animal behaves I also give a treat after I do a show or if it behaves for me to check its mouth or other medical procedure.

Im not talking about beating an animal either. I have never once hit any of my dogs(and they are large, potentially dangerous dogs) I use positive reinforcement- meaning i reward good behaviour and only discipline bad behaviour by stopping something they enjoy- like a toy they were playing with at the time etc.
This works similarly with children, though am in no way comparing the raising of a dog and child the same. But the theory works for both.

[dewilliams2]

Of course there is more than discipline that goes into raising a child, but the argument here is the use of discipline. the answers you gave as options just dont matter, no one is going to have to make that choice straight out like that. You in fact only chose one extreme, to work in 'your' favour.

So you understand my use of extremes to point out more goes into raising a child than discipline...I'm glad we have reached this point.

Now while yes this is about discipline the statement that "a child who is spanked will turn out to have issues when they grow up" is in fact a statement that does not include all of the other factors in that childs upbringing.

I was the child who was spanked but who turned out fine...as you said was not a valid argument. I was the child who was spanked but also loved, nurtured, supported. I really did turn out fine. I take no medications for depression or anything, do not go to therapy. I have college degrees, hold a job, I'm not abusive either physically, mentally/emotionally to anybody.

As I said my only real personal problem is I have trouble becoming emotionally and physically close to somebody....so I am not perfect but I have no resentment for my parents...I love them both very much and I have a great relationship with them an great amounts of respect for them.

So all I'm saying is...your statement that "saying you were spanked but turned out fine is not a valid argument" is wrong....that is in fact where this all started at....3 pages to tear down one sentence.

[qwertz]

So you understand my use of extremes to point out more goes into raising a child than discipline...I'm glad we have reached this point.

Now while yes this is about discipline the statement that "a child who is spanked will turn out to have issues when they grow up" is in fact a statement that does not include all of the other factors in that childs upbringing.

I was the child who was spanked but who turned out fine...as you said was not a valid argument. I was the child who was spanked but also loved, nurtured, supported. I really did turn out fine. I take no medications for depression or anything, do not go to therapy. I have college degrees, hold a job, I'm not abusive either physically, mentally/emotionally to anybody.

As I said my only real personal problem is I have trouble becoming emotionally and physically close to somebody....so I am not perfect but I have no resentment for my parents...I love them both very much and I have a great relationship with them an great amounts of respect for them.

So all I'm saying is...your statement that "saying you were spanked but turned out fine is not a valid argument" is wrong....that is in fact where this all started at....3 pages to tear down one sentence.

Then the 3 pages have been wasted...where exactly did i make that statement?? I didnt, i merely gave an example from my mersonal experience. I know children who were spanked can and do grow up just fine, i also know that children from families with no physical violence can grow up with issues, but the chances are that those who have had violence used against them as children will have some sort of resentment or 'issues' from it. I just dont see the need for physical discipline. the last thing i would ever ever ever want to do is cause my son pain, i cant comprehend why any parent would wish that on their child.

[the_robot]

The vast majority of kids are inherently interested in gaining their parent's approval, which makes spanking unnecessary. Those that aren't interested in gaining their parents approval have something severely wrong with them, and spanking won't work.

I think the kids who misbehaved with their parents were because their parents did something wrong, because when those same kids were with me alone or with other adults taking care of them they behaved as good as you can expect from a kid.

[dewilliams2]

The argument "I was spanked by my parents and i turned out decent" is a load of crap.

Memory loss?

[qwertz]

Does that equate to me saying "all kids that are spanked turn out like mosters" No it doesnt. You read too much into that. I thought i made it clear further on.

[dewilliams2]

Does that equate to me saying "all kids that are spanked turn out like mosters" No it doesnt. You read too much into that. I thought i made it clear further on.

I didn't interrupt it that way at all...I took it as you were saying that we couldn't use that argument at all...you said that argument was full of crap which insinuates there are not instances where kids who are spanked turn out fine....regardless of what you followed up with you said that argument was not one we could use...thats all I have been arguing about.

So you agree that kids can be spanked and turn out just fine in some cases?

[Gigabitch]

So you agree that kids can be spanked and turn out just fine in some cases?

Clearly this is possible. Vashti is fine. So am I. We're both products of homes where something WAY beyond spanking was going on. What do you think about the fact that this is the case and we've both decided to parent the non-spanking way and have achieved great success?

[Junket]

Doesn't spanking solve both problems?

Parents relieves themselves of stress and the runt stops doing whatever it is they're doing.

[qwertz]

So you agree that kids can be spanked and turn out just fine in some cases?

Of course, but i think those same people would have turned out just fine without the spanking.