Michael Moore...Sicko (

[IndiReloaded]

On the side note, In Australia 37% of the tax revenue for Medicare goes into hospitals, public and private. Don't you think US hospitals would benefit from that?

FYI, that youtube vid by cdk007 "Cost of War" makes a very similar point. That if only the $$$$ spent on Iraq had gone to healthcare (or education, or... etc). Even if that money went entirely to helping your illegal immigrants, what a difference it could have made. Hell, what a damn waste, I get upset just thinking about it.

[Mish]

FYI, that youtube vid by cdk007 "Cost of War" makes a very similar point. That if only the $$$$ spent on Iraq had gone to healthcare (or education, or... etc). Even if that money went entirely to helping your illegal immigrants, what a difference it could have made. Hell, what a damn waste, I get upset just thinking about it.

I know exactly what you mean Indi. It boggles the mind trying to understand the logic behind this sometimes. Those hundreds of Billions spent on Iraq (which continue being spent) could have easily provided universal health insurance in US for years to come at no extra cost to the tax payer (without setting US trillions back in debt).

[TheSphinx]

I really find it hard to believe that the only reason why tens of millions of people don't have free health insurance is because they are too lazy to make a phone call. They don't have health insurance because they are either inelligible or can't afford it.

I'm surprised that I can travel a few miles down the road and see a family of six living in a single-wide trailer, watching a plasma screen television while two new pickup trucks sit in the front yard.

It's called budgeting. And when I see a family who has at least tried it and are still having a tough time, I lend them a hand.

~Sphinx

[IndiReloaded]

I know exactly what you mean Indi. It boggles the mind trying to understand the logic behind this sometimes.

Really? The logic is rather simple: a few get very rich by skimming off the general population. Democracy is a fallacy; most 'democratic' countries are actually oligarchies of various grades in practice.

[DoesntMatter]

That if only the $$$$ spent on Iraq had gone to healthcare (or education, or... etc). Even if that money went entirely to helping your illegal immigrants, what a difference it could have made. Hell, what a damn waste, I get upset just thinking about it.

We should just pull out and let them kill eachother. That drives me insane as well, that we spend so much money on some piece of shit sandbox when it could be going towards better causes like landing man on Mars or developing better drugs

I'm surprised that I can travel a few miles down the road and see a family of six living in a single-wide trailer, watching a plasma screen television while two new pickup trucks sit in the front yard.

It's called budgeting. And when I see a family who has at least tried it and are still having a tough time, I lend them a hand.

~Sphinx

True that. It is kind of annoying when I see a car parked in the driveway of a home only twice the cars value because these same people are the reason anyone making over some salary pay taxes up the ass

[IndiReloaded]

We should just pull out and let them kill each other.

Ya. Despite the fact that there will be problems with this & lots of ppl will complain, even at this late juncture it still seems the best solution out there that I've read about.

[IndiReloaded]

It is kind of annoying when I see a car parked in the driveway of a home only twice the cars value because these same people are the reason anyone making over some salary pay taxes up the ass.

No, the amount these ppl waste is nothing compared to what your government has wasted on Iraq these past several years. Its a drop in the bucket by comparison. Its like comparing your mortgage to the $1 you spend on coffee a day.

[Mish]

True that. It is kind of annoying when I see a car parked in the driveway of a home only twice the cars value because these same people are the reason anyone making over some salary pay taxes up the ass

And there you were accusing me of making generalizations with Michael Moore

Really? The logic is rather simple: a few get very rich by skimming off the general population. Democracy is a fallacy; most 'democratic' countries are actually oligarchies of various grades in practice.

Sorry. What I meant to say it boggles my rational mind not used to absurdities on such a grand scale.

I really think Democracy works though, it's just a lot of us aren't living in one. Living in some form of a Plutocracy instead.

[IndiReloaded]

Living in some form of a Plutocracy instead.

Yes, thats a better term for it. And yep, democracy is still the best we got until something better gets invented. There is still the chance the masses could take control back if they could become interested enough to do so.

I think most ppl are just secretly happy with the status quo but feel obligated to bitch about it. Shrug.

[vashti]

Ah, this is the part where all the foreigners start broadening the US bashing to include MORE than health care and try to tell us how we should spend OUR money. As for me, I don't want to pay for war OR health insurance for the whole world. How about you guys that do it so much better do us a favor and import some of our poor? That would solve the problem. Now can we get back on topic?

BTW Mish, the link you provided gives different figures for the number of uninsured (41 million, which granted, is a lot, but a lot less than 50 million), and does not distinguish between citizens and non-citizens. Try again.

[misombra]

i think it's funny that the foreigners are arguing with a nurse student in a hospital in the u.s. and somebody who's worked in the health care field for ten years and got a college degree in social welfare. foreigners who watched sicko and now they know everything about the u.s. health care system.

now i'm not suggesting that we know far, far more than you guys about this subject. well no, i am suggesting that.

[Mish]

Ah, this is the part where all the foreigners start broadening the US bashing to include MORE than health care. As for me, I don't want to pay for war OR health insurance for the whole world. How about you guys that do it so much better do us a favor and import some of our poor? That would solve the problem. Now can we get back on topic?

Ah, this is the part where Vash proclaims all foreigners as US haters who if not helped by US in World War 2 would now be speaking German

You don't need to provide health insurance for the whole world, just for your own poor would be good. It just looks I don't know "strange" that the richest country in the world cares less about its own people than its poorer counterparts.

BTW Mish, the link you provided gives different figures for the number of uninsured (41 million, which granted, is a lot, but a lot less than 50 million), and does not distinguish between citizens and non-citizens. Try again.

41 Million who can't afford it and the rest who get declined. There was another link I posted from US census which breaks down the numbers (Did you conveniently miss it?)

[misombra]

the poor do get health insurance. you must've conveniently missed that.

[vashti]

i think it's funny that the foreigners are arguing with a nurse student in a hospital in the u.s. and somebody who's worked in the health care field for ten years and got a college degree in social welfare. foreigners who watched sicko and now they know everything about the u.s. health care system.

I guess all those uninsured patients I see are a figment of my imagination.

And no, Mish - I didn't see another link. You keep editing your posts after I comment on them, and I can't be bothered to keep looking for them.

[TheSphinx]

You don't need to provide health insurance for the whole world, just for your own poor would be good. It just looks I don't know "strange" that the richest country in the world cares less about its own people than its poorer counterparts.

I actually think the U.S. ranks fifth or sixth in terms of per capita.

Maybe I'm giving too much credit to the uninsured to think that they can find a job. I live in an area where there are more jobs than there are people to fill them, and yes, they are tough jobs for the most part.

It just burns me up when I see someone come into work and only stay for a day saying, "Maybe I won't get as much money, but welfare's better than this." These, along with applicants from the state employment commission who apply saying, "I don't want this job at all, but I need to apply to keep my check."

So in place of those unwilling to work, businesses have hired illegal immigrants, who have recently been ousted to their home countries. What solution are these businesses left with? Switching to automated processes, requiring about 1/20 the manpower.

Eventually this area will see less jobs for the unskilled, less income for the government, but more expenditures because of the number of people now unable to find jobs/afford necessities.

Businesses get hit hard in the U.S., I'm wondering how many more will have to move or outsource before there is some reform.

~Sphinx