Out of place?

[Junsui]

It's so slow on here today!

[vashti]

I hope it is only due to the holidays! I miss my internet buddies...
:-(

[Tone]

Interesting thought process, boobaa.

Tone, that's your problem right there. You acknowledge that what happened to the dinosaurs was beyond their control. Likewise what is happening at the moment is beyond control of people.

Wait a minute. These are completely different. Dinosaurs, it is speculated, had NO CONTROL over a meteor hitting the earth and wiping them out. Unless they have powers beyond our knowledge that could summon or attract it here - it just happened. Dinosaurs lived like most wild animals lived - to reproduce. What we do IS OUR OWN DOING - it is not beyond our control - we as a SPECIES are to blame for the problems today. We go out and poach endangered animals, pump pollution into the air and waters, we chop down forest after forest to expand our cities.

Do you see the point I'm tryin to make? Sure, it is beyond you and I's control to an extent, but we as a species are to blame. The dinosaurs cannot be blamed for their extinction, whereas we could be.

Not while people are still fighting each other on the streets. finding new ways to keep each other poor, stealing resources not only from earth, but from other people as well. indiscriminate killings, advancement in biowarfare, WTO financial control via privatisation of other coutnries, holier than thour justifications for invasions, random acts of senseless violence condoning by the World's highest leaders. I have always said this, until people learn how to live in harmony with one another what hope is there that anyone will know how to live in harmony with nature? Until then any form of change will always be outside of people's control (Just like the dinosaurs)

Again reread your own words. What is the common source of your problems listed... indiscriminate killings, biowarfare, violence, etc etc - ALL CAUSED BY OUR OWN SELVES. You're just not getting it. The dinosaurs didn't kill each other off, they didn't create biological and chemical weapons.. We are the cause, we are the reason.

Back to the original argument, our planet has seen millions time worse amount of damage than humans are EVER capable on inflicting on this planet (Well, except maybe some US scientists who were thinking of a doomsday machine that would end life as we know it if communists ever invaded the planet - it went under consideration at the highest echelons of power I remember reading lol) Humans may not have a right to abuse their power, but whatever happens our planet will recover, I am not that certain about the human race though.

That's all fine and dandy. Sure the planet has seen worse damage. But I wonder if anything will change that WE are the source of the damage this time. Never has a species done as much damage as we have. Does mother earth punish us with natural disasters because of what we do to her and her children? Interesting.

[Mish]

Tone, you have a very strange perception of humans. You tend to think that people are an ant farm with some kind of a singular consciousness. That is not true. Just like Dinosaurs had no control of whatever it was that wiped them out, so do humans have no control over their own greed and intent to be better off than others. That's never going to change, but remove humans from the planet and so what, a meteor can still hit the earth and end life as we know it as happened before...

I understand what you are saying humans are bad, nature is good and maybe that's where it should start, with one person, with you. Start doing good and build up a community of like minded people around you. You won't save the planet, but you will do small miracles that might save lives and inspire the others to follow...

My 2 Cs

[Mish]

Tone, here are some interesting questions for you:

If evolution is change methods of destruction for change and adoptation of species to new and destructive environements to occur, whose to say that humans are not just another chain in evolution? (I.e. providers of destruction for the next stage of evolution of other species)

Whose to say that humans were not specifically put on this planet by nature to create destruction on a level that will allow more adobtable species to evolve?

[Junsui]

I know this isn't as bad as what people have done to the earth, but I had to show you, Tone, that it's not only humans destroying nature.

"There are plenty of culprits from which to choose in assigning blame for the destruction of Louisiana's marshes: oil companies that carved wetlands to tatters with their exploratory canals, levees that hemmed in the nourishing waters of the Mississippi River, burrowing nutria that left marshes exposed to grass-killing saltwater.

Now, the state's dwindling coastline must deal with another nemesis: the marble-sized periwinkle snail.

Researchers from Brown and Louisiana State universities added it to the list after witnessing millions of the snails chomping their way through drought-weakened marshlands across the Gulf of Mexico and up the eastern seaboard. Over the past six years, the snails have left in their wake thousands of acres of bare mud flats where there were once thriving wetlands."

[URL=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051219/ap_on_sc/periwinkle_snail;_ylt=AhF6T.NQLJ_jTRDSJQGq_oSs0NUE ;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MzV0MTdmBHNlYwM3NTM-]Link[/URL]

[Only-virgins]

I never said anything about animals. My point is that we are not destroying earth. We are not fixing it either. To try to prevent the resources from ever dying out on earth is to try and prevent the inevitable. One day earth will look like mars...the end. Sorry, didnt mean to burst some people's super religious rightious beliefs bubble of we will live forever.

Maybe you'd understand more if you actually read.

I did. I don't think we are "out of place" as you put it. In fact we are exactly were we are supposed to be. How the hell are we "out of place"?

But those who won't understand, like OV, never will, they are too buzy with their humanism determination and that culture stuff. What culture? For us, life is experience, we read a book, watch TV, that is our culture, that is our life. For other animals, life is experience also, they learn, they teach, they look and they travel, for them, it is life and we cannot argue on that point. From OVs point, it is seen that human can only accept someone who thinks like human. We think that animals do nothing and they are useless, but amaybe animals think the same about us, for them, we just eat, watch television and thats all, and ofcourse, we destroy other creatures homes.

I don't agree with killing animals for clothing. I don't mind killing them for food though. I need to eat so its me versus the cow. I have a gun(technological advantage) thus I win.....thus I eat. Animals do it not just us. We are more advanced. Animals don't think that way. They barely have the logic to think at all. They just feel and run on instinct. How much do you remember from you conscious self at age lower then 5? ...yea..I thought so. I put a value on pain. I am a Utilitarian but I put no value on life. Once some thing is dead it never did and doesn't exist. I have nothing against the way animal groups do things. Animals also kill each other ( that includes for fun). I also would argue against the idea that an animal has the brain power to realize that we are watching TV. My mothers cat can't even realize that there are images there lol. I am not saying that animals are stupid or inferior. Just that they do not realize or even have the ability to care that we are doing something to the enviornment. To them its just a struggle to get food and breed.

[Tone]

Tone, here are some interesting questions for you:

If evolution is change methods of destruction for change and adoptation of species to new and destructive environements to occur, whose to say that humans are not just another chain in evolution? (I.e. providers of destruction for the next stage of evolution of other species)

Whose to say that humans were not specifically put on this planet by nature to create destruction on a level that will allow more adobtable species to evolve?

Those ARE interesting questions! Ones I have no answer for... maybe we WERE invented to do precisely what we do... however cruel it may seem to some of us.

Again we will probably never know the TRUTH - but it is fun to speculate...

OV also had interesting points.

I never said anything about animals. My point is that we are not destroying earth. We are not fixing it either. To try to prevent the resources from ever dying out on earth is to try and prevent the inevitable. One day earth will look like mars...the end. Sorry, didnt mean to burst some people's super religious rightious beliefs bubble of we will live forever.

Well I was mostly talking about animals. I never brought up anything about resources either.. I asked what good we have done as a species, and mentioned polluting the ocean, the air, and holes in the ozone - not necessarily "destroying" the world, but certainly not helping it, like you said.

[boobaa]

OV, humans are also animals. And one species is more advanced in one point and the other is form another. Reading your post, I see that you did not read my post carefully enough to point out some things. Humans and other animal species set values to different things, so you cannot actually say that cat is more stupid than human, for a cat, we are stupid because we cannot hunt a bird with our bare hands and for us, cat is stupid because she doesn't understand what television is. We expect one from another and that is the way it has always been. I think smartness is if you can see and value things below yourself, see things from another corner.
And once and for all, I just don't like speculative humanism beings who always talk about culture and stuff, usually they misunderstand something, and like I said, they are too speculative. Don't be speculative about nature, it doesn't make you better, it usually just mirrors the aspect that you don't know anything, and if you don't know anything, it is just better to confess it to yourself.
And killing for food. Well, how many companies out there raise and kill chicken for food? Its money, not for food directly. If you kill for food, then go hunt a deer and make some food out of it.

[Tone]

I know what you're sayin, boobaa.

[Only-virgins]

Knowledge isn't relative. Some is and some is. Knowing how to hunt and bird or fix a car is relative. Its doesn't matter. Knowing that the earth revloves around the suns is smart and not relative.

[boobaa]

I give up. You didn't pick up what I was trying to say, but well, it is my problem because I cannot express myself understandably. And besides, this discussion leads to nowhere, even that I do not agree with OV.

[Only-virgins]

I give up. You didn't pick up what I was trying to say, but well, it is my problem because I cannot express myself understandably. And besides, this discussion leads to nowhere, even that I do not agree with OV.

You made your self clear. Your just saying that as a scape goat. Unless you don't know what you said yourself....lol...

[boobaa]

No, I did not made myself clear, because you didnot understand me, it is seen, you only think you do. And argueing with you is like competeing with a mule.

[Rosebud]

Hey Tone! Ok so this has nothing really to do with this topic but it was on my homepage when I got online earlier.

[url]http://portal.wowway.com/news/read.php?ps=1020&id=13722646[/url]

How weird is this?