God? Statistical survey!

[Gigabitch]

I also do not believe in Hell, original sin, or even Heaven - at least, not in the traditional ways...

If we're wrong, I'll save you a seat right next to me and Kevin Smith.

[vashti]

If we're wrong, I'll save you a seat right next to me and Kevin Smith.

I'll start working on the flame-proof suits.

[King Zarathu]

The problem in my eyes is that Christians excuse their hypocrisy by stating that they can pick which rules they want to listen to and apply in their life, but ignore those that they don't like. These are probably some examples why:

Exodus 21:7 - It's okay to sell your daughter into slavery?
Exodus 35:2 - Anyone who works on Sunday dies? I'm still breathing?


"Doth not even nature itself teach you that if a man hath long hair it is a shame onto him?" -Corintheans 11:14 Haha!

(Cont.) 19:24 - A man should not go near a woman while she's on her period.

Good game guys.

[vashti]

The problem in my eyes is that Christians excuse their hypocrisy by stating that they can pick which rules they want to listen to and apply in their life, but ignore those that they don't like. These are probably some examples why:

Exodus 21:7 - It's okay to sell your daughter into slavery?
Exodus 35:2 - Anyone who works on Sunday dies? I'm still breathing?


"Doth not even nature itself teach you that if a man hath long hair it is a shame onto him?" -Corintheans 11:14 Haha!

(Cont.) 19:24 - A man should not go near a woman while she's on her period.

Good game guys.

I guess this means if we are wrong, you can be our pool boy in Hell.

[King Zarathu]

I guess this means if we are wrong, you can be our pool boy in Hell.

Negative, I'll be the Anti-Christ, holding the pitchfork.

[thinker]

Ok... ok... I know I haven't been on lately (stupid free internet SUCKS) But, this caught my eye so I thought I would add my 2 cents.

Let me start off by saying this: I am a very devoted Christian; have been my whole life and I intend to die that way. I like to consider myself more open minded than the old people that make up about 95% of any congregation... becuase I actually think about this kind of stuff. In fact, I like to

Now, I didn't read all the posts here; but there is a very large discrepancy that we are all overlooking; several actually. Yes, I do believe in God. I am making no effort to "convert" anyone, nor would I ever try to impose my beliefs on anyone else. I would neither try to push other Christians into my denomination (which will go unmentioned since we tend to have a bad rep) Ok; here goes

First off, stop trying to quote the Bible. There are hundreds of translations out there, and even so if we could all read Greek and Hebrew, it would still not be what many of us make it out to be. I do not think God speaks any human language; the Bible for me is a book ABOUT God, not BY Him. I take this very seriously; heh there ARE some almost humorous passages, depending on your translation of choice, a la Zarathu for pointing out These are merely morals; the one about the long hair was referring to Samson, I believe, whose long locks SYMBOLIZED his physical strength... lots of that going on in this book. Now, there are many people and sects out there who take it quite literally, which I believe to be the epitomy of foolishness. Like mentioned above, which of over 200 translations in ENGLISH ALONE are they referring to? Some translations go more word-for-word, while others get across the basic meaning-for-meaning ideas... NONE (this is my opinion, of course) should be taken literally; why the hell would God speak English people? Jesus spoke Hebrew, as He was fully, 100% human (again, this is what I believe; I am only expressing it, not forcing it or arguing with anyone else; so no flaming) All in all, what we have here on earth is like a silhouette... we certainly do not know everything about God, nor can we even begin to "classify" and "analyze" Him... many people try to do this, and make giant asses out of themselves. There are lots of great ideas and stories and morals in the Bible... I do not belive that ANY of it is DIRECTLY from God... If He wanted to do that, first of all why would we humans have free will and language if He were just to override it and use us as brainless scribes? The book of Job, for instance, is written as a sort of debate; if you were to open up to it, you may find passages condemning God for His cruelty and so forth... Job here is writing to different people, playing devil's advocate in many cases... Anyways, it is silly to open up to a random page knowing NOTHING about the background and completely denouncing organized religion becuase something on a page didn't strike you well enough... many Christians I know are like this, ironically

I personally envy the person whose life has been easy enough for them not to have to belive in God... please do not be offended, I'm just saying some people come to a point in life where there HAS to be a God or else there is no more life... sounds scary and dramatic, but very true (hence Denthrare, I believe, saying how there are no atheists in foxholes) Having said that, I do not belive there is one "right" view of God... He gave us all different brains and points of view; why shouldn't there be just as many pictures or emobiments of Him as He gave us to see Him with? I am trying to dismiss the myth that God is some old guy on a throne in the clouds who is completely objective for us to see here on earth... silly imo... Who says God is a man? Who says he is white? Who says he speaks any or all terrestrial languages? I, for one, belive he CAN do all these things; my God is omnipotent and all that rot, but how can we put all these definitions and limitations on Him with our puny little mortal brains that we can't even figure out how to use more than like 10 percent of our entire lives? Hmm... lemme continue onto another post here...

[vashti]

Thinker - you say your brand of Christianity is one with a bad reputation, which leads me to believe you are either Baptist or Mormon (and if you are Mormon, then other Christians wouldn't consider you Christian). I thought Baptists were supposed to be biblical literalists... no?

By the way, you didn't write anything that contradicts anything anyone else said, and for the rercord, I can read Hebrew.

[vashti]

Negative, I'll be the Anti-Christ, holding the pitchfork.

eh, males are always thinking about their next meal...

[thinker]

What I am asking you all to consider is that "God" for us on earth, is more of an idea. The Bible is a book, a collection of writings ABOUT Him that can help us on our way; IT IS NOT a verbatim transcription of what He actually said; lots of it is written in metaphor and poetic devices; some I take more literally than others, but we must see that there is no wrong way here. Do I believe in hell? Not really... Heaven? Yes, most likely... Purgatory (kindof a repair shop before heaven)? Does any of it matter? I don't really think so... sounds wierd, but how can we know this with any degree of certainty anyways? I hate when people talk about religion like they talk about politics... everyone is the leading authority... if you want to know the meaning of life, talk to some bartender in Virginia... like the other millions of people who "know" they have the right idea... Duh... NOONE DOES!!! Thats why we're here... Now, I certainly do not claim to know everything (I like to say I know enough to know that I know very little) Why would God let war happen? 9/11? Death and violence? Dunno. Noone does. We cannot possibly even begin to comprehend why these things happen... maybe there is such a thing as "satan" or the "devil force" with godlike powers... maybe it is God who calls for these things to happen... maybe He doesn't interfere with the earth at all... There are so many people out there with all these answers... which logically cannot all be correct as they often violently disagree... when what we need is questions. I hope I have not said anything outright "this is how it works" type of deal... I hate it when people talk like that, becuase we have no place or power to say something like that. I belive in God because I have felt Him in my life... sure I have questioned my faith; I do very often. Sure, I have been pissed at Him for letting bad stuff happen... do I "know" (using the strictest definition of the word) that God exists? No, not at all. Most things that happen can be explained logically and scientifically, which is great. Do I believe that God exists? Yes. I have no proof, just a feeling in my heart and soul. I guess if anyone has read this far what I would ask foremost is that we all stop thinking so closed-mindedly about the issue... no more vague generalizations bashing all Christians for being hypocrites, no more arguing every point I have made with a contrasting quote from the Bible... It is all out of our grasps. We cannot possibly comprehend any of it, and I find it foolish that people say that they can... watch any televangelist (ha, so much for not making generalized sterotypes) Well, we had to come from somewhere, right? Even with evolution and back all the way to that single atom that started the big bang, there HAS to be a point where there was something from nothing; no amount of science can explain that... don't want to get into this whole debate now though Do I think that just becuase you don't believe in God means you're going to hell? Hell no! play on words there if you didn't notice... I don't know anything about God, nor will I ever. I do feel and trust that He is out there, up in heaven or wherever, doesn't matter. I do however share some of the contempt that the past posts have expressed against the hypocritical people (many of whom are Christians like myself) but I hope we can all gain a more open mind about the whole thing out of this.

I will really try to get on more... I have actually missed typing out my run-on stories to you guys Like I said, this sort of stuff fascinates me; I love to see how different people think and feel, and by all means I would love to answer any *intelligent and non-belligerent* questions, and maybe get into a big-ol' discussion about this. Again, I hope I haven't come across wrong and have not offended anyone; this is the last thing I would want to do. I am merely stating my belifs and perhaps some insight behind them. Good to be back though!

[thinker]

Thinker - you say your brand of Christianity is one with a bad reputation, which leads me to believe you are either Baptist or Mormon (and if you are Mormon, then other Christians wouldn't consider you Christian). I thought Baptists were supposed to be biblical literalists... no?

By the way, you didn't write anything that contradicts anything anyone else said, and for the rercord, I can read Hebrew.

Well, actually, I'm Catholic... and heh I agree about the Mormon thing I do know a few Baptists who do take things very literally (as do the Mormons to the enth freakin degree...) and again, find this to be silly... there are so many different "authors" of the Bible; even some of the "words of the prophets" were only bits and pieces of their teachings written and collected by passers by and followers...

Well, I'm glad at least one person isn't offended so far and that's so cool that you can read Hebrew Right to left, no? Must be confusing... even so though, my point was that though you would have the best, closest to the original interpretation, it still would not be the words direct from God's mouth... just the most accurate account from the people who compiled the Old Testament... but heck, still cool that you can read it

[vashti]

Thinker: Again I say, you have posted nothing that contradicts what other posters have said. You sound defensive.

[King Zarathu]

Okay, thinker. I read everything you had to say until I got to something about Jesus speaking Hebrew. Wrong. He spoke Aramaic.

But anyway, I'm sure this discussion could go on forever, but not in this thread. I want my statistics dammit, not some pointless conversation that would result in absolutely nothing.

And thinker, you do sound extremely defensive. Chill.

[thinker]

Okay, thinker. I read everything you had to say until I got to something about Jesus speaking Hebrew. Wrong. He spoke Aramaic.

But anyway, I'm sure this discussion could go on forever, but not in this thread. I want my statistics dammit, not some pointless conversation that would result in absolutely nothing.

And thinker, you do sound extremely defensive. Chill.

Hmm... not sure about the Aramaic part, but it may well be true! Good call

I know, I know... I just am defensive, what can I say I think I've been trained like this in the past Half of what I write is just me covering my own ass against flamers...

[misombra]

what the hell did thinker just say?

[thinker]

what the hell did thinker just say?

nothing important... don't worry about it