Very unhappy

[Kat14]

Your wife is certainly twisting religion to get her own way, I agree that if you speak to a priest you will be told the same thing.
As for divorce, Mishanya is right, she can not refuse to divorce you and will be committing sin by proxy.
What are her views on you practicing birthcontrol (ie, getting a vascetemy (sp?))? And are you willing to do that?

[vashti]

I thought in order for a divorce to be valid (for a Catholic), the church must grant it, in which case, I think she can refuse.

why don't you just take the opportunity during the dry spell to go get a vasectomy and let it heal? Then you can let herthink she is trying to procreate.

[chump4u]

When I posted my suggestion that you take your problem to your parish priest, I did not mean to say that you need to take your wife to your pastor. It was obvious from what you had already written that your wife was not going to volunteer to see any counselor, and my suggestion was that you see your priest, and enlist his help with your problem.

If English priests are anything like American priests, you only need to tell your pastor your story-- that your wife is shunning her marriage obligations, and driving you toward divorce or adultery with her stubbornness-- and your wife will get all the counseling she can handle, whether she wants it or not. Priests are experts at delivered-to-your-door spiritual advice.

And if you're worried that going to your pastor alone will look to your wife as though you're "going behind her back," well, what the Hell? Things are well beyond the point where you need to worry about making her angry. You've got nothing more to lose, however angry she gets, and you just might have the luck to enlist an ally who can help you gain a bit of ground.

[misombra]

well it's a good thing that divorce lawyers don't give a fuk about religious beliefs.

[IndiReloaded]

why don't you just take the opportunity during the dry spell to go get a vasectomy and let it heal? Then you can let herthink she is trying to procreate.

Brilliant! Keep it a secret. What will you do if she ends up pregnant...that could be interesting.

[Stuart2]

I thought in order for a divorce to be valid (for a Catholic), the church must grant it, in which case, I think she can refuse.

why don't you just take the opportunity during the dry spell to go get a vasectomy and let it heal? Then you can let herthink she is trying to procreate.

I would actually give that serious consideration under the circumstances, except for the fact that as she does not want any more children, the whole reason she refuses me sex is to avoid the risk of conception as she cannot reconcile her contraceptive beliefs against my needs.

I would go and see our priest, but if he were to then approach her I worry she would blow her top about the fact I had been to see him about it. It's all such a mess, she actually slept away from me last night for the first time ever since we got married. I used the argument with her which is the greatest sin - adultery or divorce, as unless she helps me one of those will happen, and all I ended up doing was making her more upset than ever.

I would be very willing indeed to have a vasectomy, but she sees that as another method of contraception, and I am not sure exactly how the Catholic Church actually classes a vasectomy.

[IndiReloaded]

Stu, go see your priest. Counseling couples on this subject is one of their duties, I believe. So she gets mad. Are you doing anything other than trying to improve your marriage? If you feel that strongly about it, suggest you go together. If she balks, say you will be going together or alone, regardless.

But, she sounds to me like she is just making up excuses. Do you really think that a priest telling her that sex is a duty for a wife is really going to make her willingly jump your bones?

Are you sure she isn't having an affair? Just putting that out there for you to ponder. Seems weird the arguments she is using about this.

What is her life like otherwise? Does she work? Any hobbies? Did anyone already mention she could be depressed? Mbe a trip to the doc might not hurt either, they can also counsel on sexual relations b/t spouses. Ours does.

[Stuart2]

We have now effectively split and I am moving into a rented flat next Monday. The thought of an affair has crossed my mind but I really don't think she would do that.

I am going to see our preist to see if he can offer me some guidance. She has plenty of friends and does things in support of the church and our kids school so she is quite active.

I have promised her that I am not going to go straight out and have sex on day one (don't think anyone will want me even if I did llol!) But she knows the reasons why I am going and is not stopping me. She either has a religious or medical problem but won't accept my help.
If she were having an affair it would absolutely devastate me after all I've been throuigh but I can't see her ever doing that to me.

[vashti]

I believe her behavior actually DOES reflect the official stance of the Catholic church, and I've known other women who have taken it to heart this way. I doubt this is related to an affair.

In any case, will the Church require pastoral counseling before you divorce? I believe they will. That may be your best opportunity for help.

Another thought, Stuart: when you were having sex with your wife, was she having orgasms routinely? It would be a lot harder to give up something so pleasureable...

[relationship]

does she allow you to touch her? Maybe she is reacting to all the pressure that you are placing on her. Maybe she isn't comfortable with her body and feels vulnerable being naked in front of you. I would try to make her feel comfortable being naked in front of you. How about massages without wanting anything in return. It may take a while, but I think it would be worth the try.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

You are "very unhappy" with this person who is obviously very insensitive. Leave her. Doesn't mean you won't be a part of your children's lives, it just means you will be happier and in turn take better care of them. You don't want to spent the next x-teen years of your life miserable; you don't think that will affect how you view/raise your kids? You might not want to think it will, but misery LOVES company.

[girl68]

You are "very unhappy" with this person who is obviously very insensitive. Leave her. Doesn't mean you won't be a part of your children's lives, it just means you will be happier and in turn take better care of them. You don't want to spent the next x-teen years of your life miserable; you don't think that will affect how you view/raise your kids? You might not want to think it will, but misery LOVES company.

I agree completely. Who ever was the one who said that when a parent leaves the one that's left is the only parent? That's simply not the case, unless of course the one who leaves- flees the country! As a happy parent you do your job better. And kids know too. Kids pick up real quick that one or more parent is unhappy. How do you think that shapes their view of healthy, long term relationships? It does them no good. Think about that.

[IndiReloaded]

You young ones are so quick to give up on marriage. Does it occur to any of you that there must be a *reason* for this woman's behaviour? What seems completely irrational, rarely is.

The 'unhappy = leave' formula is fine for dating. But not for someone who has made a commitment to marriage, family, and (in this case) God, I think its worth some more effort.

They loved each other and had sex once upon a time, right? So, something has changed. Figure that out and then figure out whether the marriage is worth saving.

I'm still going with the change of life hypothesis. I know a few women who were taken away by space aliens for a few tough years. Their husbands were long-suffering, no doubt, but this is part of the ups and downs of marriage.

Anyway, I'm going to leave this to Vash & Mish. When things start going 'religious' as a reason for creating havoc in a family, I just don't relate to the mindset.

[girl68]

You young ones are so quick to give up on marriage. Does it occur to any of you that there must be a *reason* for this woman's behaviour? What seems completely irrational, rarely is.

*we know why... shes religious, things like her views don't change*

The 'unhappy = leave' formula is fine for dating. But not for someone who has made a commitment to marriage, family, and (in this case) God, I think its worth some more effort.
*he's made effort- SHE isn't even willing to TALK about the problem*

They loved each other and had sex once upon a time, right? So, something has changed. Figure that out and then figure out whether the marriage is worth saving.
*yeah, hey had sex to make babies- the babies have been made the sex stops*

You obviously aren't reading the thread... That or you just have no clue how religion plays on ones life.

[IndiReloaded]

I already said I don't understand the religious mindset.

Are you married Girl? Are you speaking from experience? I am married for almost 20 years with children. Never divorce, either of us. You could say I know something about keeping a relationship working.

Anyway, try not to take it personally when someone has an opinion that differs from yours. I read the thread and my reading comprehension is very high.

My suggestion before giving up completely, b/c obviously he WANTS his marriage to work (this should matter to some), is she should be encouraged to get some sexual counselling. Its clear she has been brainwashed to somehow think its 'bad'.