So, is this what dating is really like...?

[mollymari]

No chemistry? Well then, next please. Nope, casual sex doesn't sound like the right fit for you. Romantic you are. Must let things happen naturally and perhaps next time/date you have, go out and do something outdoors and slightly physical, that way there's more going on besides the two of you sitting at a table looking for things to talk about whilst periodically fiddling your thumbs. Then again, when you meet someone good for you, the conversation will just flow and the silent periods in between will be comfortable but still, it is lovely to be outside when those sparks fly
good luck and don't give up on finding someone. Your open to it and that's a great foundation.

[Indestructible]

You need to get better at follow-up questions. Listen to what women are saying and then ask them follow-up questions. It would help if you actually had some interest in what they were saying, but there have been some very successful talk show hosts who could feign interest while asking good follow-up questions.

Well, I mean, it's not for a lack of trying. I just can't ever think of things to say in the moment to further the conversation. I often find myself thinking back on the conversation later, after it's over, and thinking "Oh! I should've said this!", or something like that, and I kick myself for not thinking of it sooner. But in the moment, I can't ever think of anything.

Nope, casual sex doesn't sound like the right fit for you. Romantic you are.

I've always been the "hopeless romantic" type, I've always been much more interested in "romance", and having sex with someone I actually have feelings for. It's just, I'm at a point in my life where I'm questioning what is and isn't possible for me, and I'm leaning towards the idea that "love", "romance", and "sex with feelings" are all completely off the table for me. Casual sex really doesn't appeal to me, but what other option do I have? From what I can tell, the whole dating process just seems so "blah" to me, especially when it involves dating complete strangers, and on the very rare occasion I do connect well with a girl, she never wants to date me.

[memsy]

go to a social club

[Indestructible]

Not to mention, in my experience, any time I like a girl, there's at least another guy or two that can sense that, and will "compete" with me (and "beat" me) in pursuing her. Having a good personality and being likable seem to not be enough, because there's always someone lurking around the corner trying to undermine and sabotage me so that they can get the girl instead. I almost feel like it's a battle I just can't win.

[basilandthyme]

Having a good personality and being likable seem to not be enough

Indestructible, forgive me for saying.....in post #48, you said that you can't carry on a conversation and don't know what to say next. If this is the case, you DON'T have a good personality and you won't be particularly likable. I'm sure you're not offensive and that nobody dislikes you, but I will hazard a guess that you're stuck in a no-man's land of being boring. Having a good personality involves being able to easily converse.

Not to mention, in my experience, any time I like a girl, there's at least another guy or two that can sense that, and will "compete" with me (and "beat" me) in pursuing her [snip] because there's always someone lurking around the corner trying to undermine and sabotage me so that they can get the girl instead. I almost feel like it's a battle I just can't win.

Generally speaking, if you like a girl and the two of you are showing MUTUAL interest in each other, guys will respect that and leave her alone. But if she's not interested in you - or you're not being proactive in chasing her, there's no reason why they shouldn't show their interest in her. And let's face it, if she's really into you - they won't be able steal her away from you anyway.

If you want the girl, you have to catch her before someone else does. It's a fact of dating.

[Indestructible]

Indestructible, forgive me for saying.....in post #48, you said that you can't carry on a conversation and don't know what to say next. If this is the case, you DON'T have a good personality and you won't be particularly likable. I'm sure you're not offensive and that nobody dislikes you, but I will hazard a guess that you're stuck in a no-man's land of being boring. Having a good personality involves being able to easily converse.

The whole "not good at conversing" thing is more of a problem with newer people, people I don't know very well. After I've known someone for a while, and built up a bit of a familiarity with them, it's less of a problem. Still somewhat of a problem, but not as bad as when I'm around someone I don't know very well. I'm better with some people than others. The last girl I liked, for example, I had no problem talking to her, having good conversations, making her laugh, being playful, and all that. But I guess on some level, you're not completely wrong about the "boring" thing. But, it's like... What do you about that? You're either "fun" or you're not. Even if I get better at talking and making conversation, that won't necessarily mean I'm not "boring"; I could just become the "boring guy that won't shut up".

Generally speaking, if you like a girl and the two of you are showing MUTUAL interest in each other, guys will respect that and leave her alone. But if she's not interested in you - or you're not being proactive in chasing her, there's no reason why they shouldn't show their interest in her. And let's face it, if she's really into you - they won't be able steal her away from you anyway.

If you want the girl, you have to catch her before someone else does. It's a fact of dating.

Yeah, I dunno... I seem to have the misfortune of always being nearby an arrogant "serial womanizer". For instance, with the last girl I like, after she turned down my date, one of her exes (a mutual acquaintance, a woman juggling sleaze who cheated on her) caught on that I liked her, and decided to cause a bit of trouble, which caused her to pull away from me and start hanging on him. She and I have sort of patched things up, but she still keeps a bit of a distance from me, while she and her ex are pretty much attached at the hip, constantly acting flirty with each other.

I can't ever seem to completely get away from guys like that, and in the end, they always win. For them, it's all about their egos, and they make it all into a big game, a game that guys like me just can't compete in.

[basilandthyme]

The whole "not good at conversing" thing is more of a problem with newer people, people I don't know very well. After I've known someone for a while, and built up a bit of a familiarity with them, it's less of a problem. Still somewhat of a problem, but not as bad as when I'm around someone I don't know very well. I'm better with some people than others. The last girl I liked, for example, I had no problem talking to her, having good conversations, making her laugh, being playful, and all that. But I guess on some level, you're not completely wrong about the "boring" thing. But, it's like... What do you about that? You're either "fun" or you're not. Even if I get better at talking and making conversation, that won't necessarily mean I'm not "boring"; I could just become the "boring guy that won't shut up".

Thing is though, most of dating is about meeting new people....and you've got to be able to do small talk to engage with someone. The art of talking and making conversation isn't about "not shutting up", it's about being able to discuss a topic which is someone else's interest. Everyone likes talking about themselves! Both my hubby and his father are awesome at this - they can meet someone new and ask the person about themselves and their interests and talk with them for ages. If you know nothing about that topic, that's OK - you can use it learn something new.

Yeah, I dunno... I seem to have the misfortune of always being nearby an arrogant "serial womanizer". For instance, with the last girl I like, after she turned down my date, one of her exes (a mutual acquaintance, a woman juggling sleaze who cheated on her) caught on that I liked her, and decided to cause a bit of trouble, which caused her to pull away from me and start hanging on him. She and I have sort of patched things up, but she still keeps a bit of a distance from me, while she and her ex are pretty much attached at the hip, constantly acting flirty with each other.

This woman had turned down a date - so the other guy did nothing wrong by asking her out. It's not like she'd accepted a date with you and he stole her away. If she's not interested in you, then it's OK for another guy to chase her. Whether he's a serial womaniser or not has nothing to do with it.

I can't ever seem to completely get away from guys like that, and in the end, they always win. For them, it's all about their egos, and they make it all into a big game, a game that guys like me just can't compete in.

Inde, I doubt very much that there is a game in their eyes. I'm not even sure that you're a blip on their radar. It's simply a matter of them knowing she's single, not seeing anyone and therefore available. Mate, if a girl says "no" to a date, then from your angle it's 'game over'. There's no sense in being upset at someone who got a girl who wasn't interested in dating you anyway.

[Indestructible]

Thing is though, most of dating is about meeting new people....and you've got to be able to do small talk to engage with someone. The art of talking and making conversation isn't about "not shutting up", it's about being able to discuss a topic which is someone else's interest. Everyone likes talking about themselves! Both my hubby and his father are awesome at this - they can meet someone new and ask the person about themselves and their interests and talk with them for ages. If you know nothing about that topic, that's OK - you can use it learn something new.

What I'm saying is, being more talkative alone doesn't make someone "not boring". You still have to know WHAT to say, and that's where I fumble pretty easily. How much you talk to someone doesn't matter a whole lot if the things you're saying/ asking don't have any substance, or are just dumb. Like I said, I think "being fun" is mostly something you are or you aren't (same with "being boring"). Some very intelligent people can maybe learn to pick up on things enough to become more "fun", but I'm not so sure I'm one of those people, I'm afraid.

This woman had turned down a date - so the other guy did nothing wrong by asking her out. It's not like she'd accepted a date with you and he stole her away. If she's not interested in you, then it's OK for another guy to chase her. Whether he's a serial womaniser or not has nothing to do with it.

Well, let me clarify on a few things. They dated (and split up) before I ever even liked her. Despite all the women he messes around with, he seemed to have a particular attachment to this girl. When he found out I liked her (and got rejected by her), he apparently went to her and told her stuff about me. I don't know what was said, or whatever, but I feel like he's territorial about her, and even though they weren't dating anymore, he must've gotten jealous that I liked her, and had to go cause trouble to keep her away from me. I don't know whether or not there's actually anything going on between them, but it bugs me that a guy like this can be so charismatic that he can date this girl, cheat on her, get dumped by her, say enough to her to make her want to stay away from me, and still be "charming" enough to make her want to hang around him despite the fact that he cheated on her in the past. I just don't get it. I know I got kinda weird around her after she turned me down, because I had a hard time with it, but why does that make me so horrible to be around, yet she's perfectly on board with being all buddy-buddy with a guy who actually cheated on her?

It just bothers me how all this stuff works out. I get that I have my faults, but I've seen guys that are immature, unintelligent, physically unattractive, have bad personalities, and/ or have no real direction in life, that manage to date and attract people just fine. So why is it that I can never find girls I want to date, and why is it that when I do, I'm never "good enough" for them, for one reason or another? I don't get it, it just frustrates me, and it makes me sad.

[basilandthyme]

Regarding your lack of conversation skills, how have you been proactive about addressing the problem? What books have you read and what courses have you done?

Are you still avoiding seeing a psychologist?

[Indestructible]

Regarding your lack of conversation skills, how have you been proactive about addressing the problem? What books have you read and what courses have you done?

Well, I've really just been trying to get hands on experience with acquaintances. Hasn't really been that beneficial to me, though.

Are you still avoiding seeing a psychologist?

I just... really want to be able to take care of my own problems. I don't want to have to depend on a therapist to help me through stuff.

[Rockfan]

Mate when it comes to talking to people you just need to be yourself. Sure confidence is a big plus and girls will always like self confidence but they also do like a guy that is honest with who he is. I have a problem with shyness and I have aspergers and that hasn't stopped me from having friends or socializing. From what it sounds like it's that you just don't seem to want to try with socializing with girls as you have said you feel like it's a "chore" when the truth is that it's not. Even though I have shyness I have managed to attract girls but I just feel some of them are not the type I'd go for anyway which means I have quite a few female friends one of whom I have know for nearly 6 years and from what I've been hearing from common friends of hers and mine that her and I may become more than friends if I bide my time and honestly she's the only one of my female friends who I have seen as a possible gf. I also am guessing you are quite young late teens/early 20's? All I can say is that as you can only learn from mistakes you make and just try because there is no right or wrong way of trying as all people have different ways of making those connections and once you make a connection with a girl you'll know it in your heart and subconsciously.

[dem862]

Most of the women I have met have a limited range of things to talk about. They get excited about things like shoes, outfits, gossip, pregnancy, babies, plants, maybe cooking, etc. Things I have no interest in. However they expect to be entertained by the male. If you are not good with words, I suggest you come up with an entertainment plan. Things like movies, plays, parks, recreation, etc, to take the spotlight off your lack of personality.

Nobody really likes dating, but it is the only way to get into a relationship, unless you are into arranged marriages or mail-order brides.

[Indestructible]

I also am guessing you are quite young late teens/early 20's?

24, almost 25.

Mate when it comes to talking to people you just need to be yourself. Sure confidence is a big plus and girls will always like self confidence but they also do like a guy that is honest with who he is.

Well, I mean, that's what I do, I try to just "be me" all the time, and I think that's why my confidence suffers, because even when I'm just "being myself", I get no results, which makes me feel like "myself" just... sucks.

From what it sounds like it's that you just don't seem to want to try with socializing with girls as you have said you feel like it's a "chore" when the truth is that it's not.

I'm not saying that "socializing" is a chore. I'm saying that it's very difficult for me to find a girl I actually like and feel attracted to, and that going on one-on-one dates with girls I'm NOT particularly attracted to in the meantime just doesn't really seem fun or interesting to me. I don't want to go on dates with a bunch of random girls that I'm not drawn to, that just seems... dull. I want to find girls that I think are cool and fun to be around, just me and them, and go on dates with those girls. I just can't seem to find them.

and once you make a connection with a girl you'll know it in your heart and subconsciously.

Will I, though? I was 100% I made a good connection with the last girl I liked, and obviously I was completely wrong about that.

[basilandthyme]

Well, I've really just been trying to get hands on experience with acquaintances. Hasn't really been that beneficial to me, though.

Dude, you've had 20 something years to practice this - if it was going to work, it would have by now. One of the rules for life: if what you are doing isn't working, try another way.

I just... really want to be able to take care of my own problems. I don't want to have to depend on a therapist to help me through stuff.

And how's that working for you? If you're making headway, then continue as you are. If not, refer to the rule above.

[basilandthyme]

Will I, though? I was 100% I made a good connection with the last girl I liked, and obviously I was completely wrong about that.

I'm sure you and she had a good rapport, but did you have mutual chemistry? Did she want you as more than a friend?