Men, lets see if you can help me understand more, re: porn

[dewilliams2]

She did put porn in the title...I mean she knew he had lied about it and that he had been on those sites before she started this thread and she titled it "Men, lets see if you can help me understand more, re: porn"

And there for awhile she was really harping on the porn more than anything else...I would have been pissed he lied more than anything else.

[Gigabitch]

Much as I hate lying, it's taking a backseat to the bachelor behavior this guy is exhibiting. He needs a freaking shock collar.

[AzAlwaya]

So you're going to let your marriage dissolve because your husband engages in something perfectly normal that you take a nutso moral high ground against? If anything you're the immoral one. I'm fairly certain that your teenaged daughters have seen worse and likely done a few things themselves. Stumbling on their dad's porn stash, while awkward, is hardly traumatizing.

He lied because, unfortunately for him, he fell in love with you and he wanted to keep you happy. Whether or not he watches porn is none of your business, whether you think it is or not. If the worst he's ever done is lie about his porn habits I think you're a very, very lucky woman.

You obviously have some reading comprehension problems.

I am immoral because..why, exactly? Should the other things he has done been none of my business as well?

As for my daughters, you have no idea about them. I hope you do not have daughters and feel so trivial about their feelings.

[AzAlwaya]

She did put porn in the title...I mean she knew he had lied about it and that he had been on those sites before she started this thread and she titled it "Men, lets see if you can help me understand more, re: porn"

And there for awhile she was really harping on the porn more than anything else...I would have been pissed he lied more than anything else.

Yes, I was 'harping' on the porn. I am sure I still have a little bit of harp left in me. lol

But because a few here seem to be actual human beings, I have indeed been able to realize this and even though my 'stance' on porn will never change as it should not have to, I have indeed come to realize that I was allowing it to be placed first versus the true issues.

I am of the thinking that my husband refuses to 'own up' to any thing has to do with his precious career. He is military. Has been for over 20 years. Even though I do not know him as I thought, I am pretty certain he is more concerned with his career than he is with is marriage.

[dewilliams2]

You already made your mind up...I don't see why you are here asking for advice...at this point I'm thinkin your just a troll.

[Gribble]

I've been thinking that from the start, honestly.

[AzAlwaya]

No, I am many things but a troll, I am not.

These issues have been weighing on my mind for such a long time and well, after the latest development in my marriage I have been doing a lot of reading, a lot of soul searching and yes, I found myself desperate. I googled 'relationship forums' and found this one. I read some of the threads before I registered. I then posted this post.

I fooled myself because I really thought that I could handle some objective responses. So sue me, I guess I am too hurt to immediately see through the pain.

Some here have basically said that I need to get over it, my 'stance' on porn. If you think I have not tried you are sadly mistaken. I did not leave a few years ago when all of this came to light. I did not leave when he first was on the damn dating sites. But that is not good enough? What is? Should I really just put my feelings aside and forget about certain things that I have always believed in? I have compromised many, many times over the past 12 years. Yes, marriage does indeed include compromise. There is only so much I can take. So call me weak. There is only so far I can go with such compromise that allows me to look in the mirror without hating who I have allowed myself to become.

I thought that I had it in me, or possibly did, to give it another go. Meaning, that I came here with the full intentions of seeing if I really could come to terms with the porn that men seem to think they cannot live their life without. I failed. But I gave it one last shot, even if that shot was not what some feel was acceptable.

After talking with my husband again yesterday, during his lunch, I was broken. Last night, when he came home from work, he got on the computer to look up car parts. After dinner and not a word from him I went to bed. I did not want to start an arguement and I knew that I would. When he came to bed I did ask him how long we were going to go on like this. He told me he did not know, he has other things that are more important right now. To some that may not sound bad, but you have not lived my life.

Today he called me, told me he knew I was not doing any thing productive so I needed to bring him his lunch as he was not able to come home for lunch. I did.

If any of you feel I have not tried, I have not done any thing other than troll the internet or do nothing more than bitch at my husband and such, so be it. I know other wise. My daughters deserve a mother who is not always so hurt, so damn angry and one who is at peace. That may take a bit, I admit, but at this point, any thing is better than the way I have been feeling.

So think what you will.

But also think about this..............if any one of you have a girlfriend or wife that you say you truly love................if you respect her you will not tell her to 'get over it'.....no matter what the 'it' may be...........including porn. If you truly are a decent man you will make the attempt to forego some whore in a magazine, in a video, on your computer screen, for that person you claim you love. And you will respect your children more. Especially daughters. That is, unless, you don't have a problem with your daughter being one of those 'woman' that some guy is jacking off to

[lahnnabell]

My mother found peace after she kicked my father out of her life. She and I have always been close, but our relationship thrives now that we are not under his rule. I don't think you should feel ashamed for wanting to hold to your standards and it sounds like you really did try to accept things as they are. If it is causing you that much pain and your entire family is suffering from it (indirectly or not) then I think it best that you two part ways.

[sehvral]

Should I really just put my feelings aside and forget about certain things that I have always believed in?

No, you shouldn't. But you also shouldn't expect him to do the same just because his are not compatible with yours.

I thought that I had it in me, or possibly did, to give it another go. Meaning, that I came here with the full intentions of seeing if I really could come to terms with the porn that men seem to think they cannot live their life without.

Most of us can live without porn, when we are in a sexually fulfilling relationship. I haven't watched porn since I started seeing my current GF, because she is satisfying my needs. If that ever changes, yeah, I'll bring back the porn. And if I'm not satisfying her, she's more than welcome to do the same. Now for some, porn is an addiction that needs treatment, like any other addiction. Considering how long he's been watching porn, this is a definite possibility.

If you truly are a decent man you will make the attempt to forego some whore in a magazine, in a video, on your computer screen, for that person you claim you love. And you will respect your children more. Especially daughters. That is, unless, you don't have a problem with your daughter being one of those 'woman' that some guy is jacking off to

First, all children should be respected equally, regardless of gender. But here is the crux of the issue. He's doing all this stupid shit, but you are tying it all in with the porn. Despite the title, you've never actually tried to understand, you just used it as an object to hide all the real shit behind. Your idea that any woman who is okay with being seen as sexual (versus sensual) is a whore says a lot. But you've never answered any questions about *why* you have this view. Maybe you had a very puritanical upbringing, I don't know.

The guy is a complete asshole, there's no question of that. But it was never about the porn. So much drama could have been avoided if you'd brought up the real issues in the beginning.

[doppelgaenger]

The best thing to do in this situation is to sit down together in private (away from the daughters, when the daughters aren't around) and talk about the matter.

You need to remain calm so that he doesn't get defensive. As other members pointed out; he's hiding a few things and lying to you.
People lie because there is something to hide, and when they are hiding something, it's because they know it will hurt you or make you angry. If you approach the issue calmly, it will be easier for him to be honest with you.
Have a concise list of all the things he is doing that you don't like and share it with him. Don't make it seem like an interrogation though.

Ask him why he watches porn and try to reason with him. You have to admit, watching pornography is not a crime (unless it involves pedophilia or zoophilia), he is not violating your marriage vows by watching porn.
You're simply dissatisfied because he doesn't appear to conform to all of your moral values. You need to compromise about this. He probably will not change his behavior, though. At the very least, however, he should do a better job keeping the daughters from catching him.

The online dating stuff is what you really need to focus on; unless it's an account from his previous marriage or something, he's doing something that's really wrong. You want to get to the bottom of it and find out why he is doing that. Does he want to have a divorce? Does he want to have intimate relationship with someone else? Ask him about it.

[Incognito]

This is post #45

It was totally wrong for him to lie about the porn so long ago. However, there are a few unanswered questions here.
1. Do you even know why he watches porn?
2. Did you two have an active sex life in which HE felt fulfilled?
3. Do you have a healthy sex drive? What do you think is a good frequency to have sex?

If he watches porn because he has a healthy sex drive and you don't then you are partly to blame here. If you don't want to have sex, but condemn masturbating to porn you are being unreasonable. If he watches porn because it is an addiction (not because you are sexually depriving him), then it is a bigger problem that should be addressed by a professional. As far as the dating sites and possible cheating, the same applies. I don't know what you did/didn't do or could have done to prevent that, but if you were sexually depriving him what did you expect to happen?

Its funny that this seems to be the ONLY post that you didn't answer. I find that quite telling. There is no denying that this guy his a jerk and emotionally detached (especially when you typed this : Today he called me, told me he knew I was not doing any thing productive so I needed to bring him his lunch as he was not able to come home for lunch. I did. ) I was disgusted by that. However you have stated that the porn is an major issue for you despite everything else, so I ask you to read the above post again and respond to it. I'll also add that all the others things combined are reason enough to leave this guy. I simply am trying to understand your justification of hating the porn and what role you might have had in his watching it. Remember if you ever get into another relationship this could be an issue there too.

[AzAlwaya]

This is post #45

Its funny that this seems to be the ONLY post that you didn't answer. I find that quite telling. There is no denying that this guy his a jerk and emotionally detached (especially when you typed this : Today he called me, told me he knew I was not doing any thing productive so I needed to bring him his lunch as he was not able to come home for lunch. I did. ) I was disgusted by that. However you have stated that the porn is an major issue for you despite everything else, so I ask you to read the above post again and respond to it. I'll also add that all the others things combined are reason enough to leave this guy. I simply am trying to understand your justification of hating the porn and what role you might have had in his watching it. Remember if you ever get into another relationship this could be an issue there too.

No, this is not the only response I did not answer. There are a few others that I should have noticed as well as this one.

There have only been two times that our sex life lacked. The first, after the birth of our daughter. Second, after I had to have a hyster five years ago due to cervical cancer and other issues.

There has never been a reason for my husband to put himself on dating sites. None. No matter what goes on in a marriage, if one of the spouses feels they need to put themselves out there like that they damn well need to leave the relationship firs

[Incognito]

Believe me, I am in no way trying to say that anything you did justifies putting himself on dating sites. I am only addressing the porn. What you consider ample sex, he may not have. Do you know why he watches porn? How often did you two have sex? Please read [url]http://www.loveforum.net/ask-female-forum/39003-my-wife-has-no-sex-drive-what-can-i-do.html[/url] to understand my position a bit better. I think this relationship is pretty much over. No one person can carry a relationship. Once one person gives up or seeks love/sex outside its over. I am simply trying to show you why some men view porn becuase this is an issue that may very well come up in the future with someone else.

[AzAlwaya]

QUOTE=Incognito;580267]Believe me, I am in no way trying to say that anything you did justifies putting himself on dating sites. I am only addressing the porn. What you consider ample sex, he may not have. Do you know why he watches porn? How often did you two have sex? Please read [url]http://www.loveforum.net/ask-female-forum/39003-my-wife-has-no-sex-drive-what-can-i-do.html[/url] to understand my position a bit better. I think this relationship is pretty much over. No one person can carry a relationship. Once one person gives up or seeks love/sex outside its over. I am simply trying to show you why some men view porn becuase this is an issue that may very well come up in the future with someone else.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for replying again. I do truly appreciate it and your honesty without the sarcasm.
I read your thread.
It was indeed helpful. Maybe I am not a complete lost cause after all. For some woman, it is all in the approach. Your approach with me, trying to get me to try to understand a different point of view, is helpful. I do not know that my view on porn will ever change. That is not to say that I should not try harder to attempt to understand a little. A little is better than none.
But at this point, even understanding to a degree is not going to help me with the dating site crap. He told me that it had nothing to do with me. That he was lacking in self confidence, needed an ego boost. That he intended for me to never find out. That he had no plans on ever actually meeting any one face to face. He did not want me to find out because he knew it would hurt me. Stupid me, we made the attempt to work through it. However, at one point I was indeed so upset and so hurt I told him I was going to see a lawyer. He never asked me if I actually did. Instead, he went on to another site. I found out about that time because when I went to log in to my Yahoo account his was up and there was an IM from a woman. He had been on Cupid.Com. I went to Cupid and found his profile. I admit, I e-mailed her, I was nice, but I let her know he was indeed married. She replied, letting me know that he was not rude, did not discuss me or his marriage. That she indeed would never have contact with him again. She lived 5 miles away. There were at least 30 woman he was chatting with. Reading what he had written to these woman tore my heart out.

But I stayed. Now, thinking back on all of this, you betcha I was not interested in sex for a while after all of that. Can you really blame me? We talked. He knows me well enough to know that I need the emotional connection in order for the physical to be great. He told me he realized he had not been there for me, emotionally, and that that was part of the overall problem. That he was truly sorry and did not want to lose me. He would make the effort. However, he made no effort to go to counseling. He kept telling me that his Physc teacher told him this and told him that and she was helping him. Come on! SHE was helping him? After all of that SHE was helping him. A teacher who was only hearing his side. Wow.

This all began, or the dating site crap, over two years ago. And here I am still married to him. Yes, I suppose the fact that I have not left prior to now is some thing I think deserves a medal. That is wrong, that way of thinking. I have indeed come to realize this.

So let me ask you a question. If I am ever able to get to the point where the porn is some thing I just put aside, as best I can, as long as I never see it and more importantly, my daughters don't.............kinda like that 'don't ask-don't tell' policy, what about his lack of emotional support towards me? He expects me to do things simply because I am his wife. A lame example: He expects me to go any where he goes simply because I am his wife. He expects me to fully support his career. I have. When he was promoted recently, our daughter and I were on the stage when he was pinned on the next rank. He handed M and I flowers. It was indeed very sweet and I was so touched. Later on, he told his mother that he did that because he knew no one else would. It made it him look good. Wow!!! Yes, I over heard this conversation.

I suppose now I am just babbling because there are so many thoughts going through my head. At this point, I do not know that I see any way to save what ever it is we have. I do not trust him and that is huge. I don't know that I could ever trust him again.

Again, thank you! Truly.

[Incognito]

So let me ask you a question. If I am ever able to get to the point where the porn is some thing I just put aside, as best I can, as long as I never see it and more importantly, my daughters don't.............kinda like that 'don't ask-don't tell' policy, what about his lack of emotional support towards me? He expects me to do things simply because I am his wife. A lame example: He expects me to go any where he goes simply because I am his wife. He expects me to fully support his career. I have. When he was promoted recently, our daughter and I were on the stage when he was pinned on the next rank. He handed M and I flowers. It was indeed very sweet and I was so touched. Later on, he told his mother that he did that because he knew no one else would. It made it him look good. Wow!!! Yes, I over heard this conversation.

Like I said I was only addressing the porn because it might come up in a future relationship. I think your marriage is done. If you stuck around after choking down that lie about "only wanting to boost his ego" and then HE DID IT AGAIN that is reason enough to leave right there. That coupled with the fact that he is not emotionally supportive, treats you like a military subordinate, refuses to go to counseling, didn't care that you might be speaking with a lawyer to seek a divorce AND is only using you to manipulate other people by having you on stage at his ceremony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That last part made me want to puke! He turned something that could have been a touching emotional gesture (having you and mom on stage) into a shallow opportunity to make himself look good. I am sorry you had children with this man. It is also troubling that his FEMALE psych teach is giving him unofficial counseling.....if indeed it is actually counseling and not "counseling" involving private meetings and condoms. Of course there are reasons to stay and fight for your marriage (if you wanted to), but there are so many more reasons to cut him loose.