Would You Want to Know?

[GrkScorp]

The part that I found really appalling about this story was that later, when he was confessing this to me, he made it out to be his girlfriend's fault, because she went to bed early.

What kind of rationalization is that? What is he.., some little girl?

[Gigabitch]

What kind of rationalization is that? What is he.., some little girl?

And later, lying to me will become somehow my fault, because I "gave him no choice".

[lesa]

No, don't think like that. People change. If you two love each other very much and want to spend the rest of your lives together then you should marry, if that is what you two want. Try writing out the pros and cons.

Plus, life is an adventure. Live it and enjoy it fully.

[Mish]

I don't know what to say Giga. First I'm sorry to hear about what happened, you must be devastated right now. I don't like hearing that you're not getting enough sleep, first I would concentrate on that if I were you. It will be hard to get decent sleep because of your highly alert state at this stage, but before you do anything you must find a way to sleep well. Use physical exercise, massage tense areas around the temples and use menthol ointment if neccesary (sleeping pills are the last resort if all else fails).

She wanted it kept secret because it's something that really shouldn't have happened for a number of reasons. It could damage the relationship she has right now, and what's worse, my boyfriend was, and still is, very, very close with her ex. This girl is more like a sister to him than she is to me, supposedly, and she never, ever wanted anyone to know what happened.

As far as the girl goes I won't give any advice. I will just ask a couple of questions to understand how you view things a little bit better. How do you see a lie? I ask because some people interpret the meaning of a lie differently. For example is witholding information a lie? If I answer questions, but not with complete detail am I lying?

What are your views on sensitive information that can potentially do a lot of harm to other people? What are your views on complex ethical questions? I will bring an example of a complicated ethical question. Let's say an important family member is hiv positive and you are the only one who knows about this. Your partner's friend has just started going out with this person and your partner requested information if you knew if this person had any stds. How would you respond? Revealing this information will cause a lot of shame to the family member and their trust in you will be lost, not revealing this information will cause guilt and if it ever comes out the trust of your partner will be lost.

Just to point out, there is no right or wrong answer. I'm just trying to get a feel for your standing on this.

I think dropping that bomb on her would only serve to compound the issue at this point. When it comes down to it, it isn't about her at all; it's about him.

I think it's about more than that and I think I know where you are going with this. It's about trust.

People have things that are super important to them. For some, it's drug use. For some, it's jail time. For CAM, it's tattoos. For me, a big one is lying.

He didn't have a lot of credit in the Bank of Trust anyway. Maybe it's a good thing this surfaced when it did. Maybe this is for the best.

I'm not going to give advice on this as well, but just speak from experience. It takes me personally a while to trust a person. Even a partner in the early stages of the relationship. I reveal information very conservatively. But the more I trust the person the freer I become with the information because I know this information (no matter how sensitive) is in the right hands. Though, to get to that level for me it takes time. I found that some people deal in the same manner. Many aren't comfortable with revelation of extremely sensitive information to anyone no matter how close these people are, except maybe to a life partner a spouse. Some people see that you can keep secrets from friends and lovers, but you can't keep a secret from a husband or a wife. Can keep secrets from lovers, but not from husband or a wife. Think about this a little bit more.

I hope you will feel better soon.

[lesa]

To put it plainly: he and his ex had reached a point in their relationship where things were not easy. They went on vacation with some friends of hers, she chose to go to bed early, and he chose to stay up late and proceed to get totally drunk with her friend and end up in bed with her.

The part that I found really appalling about this story was that later, when he was confessing this to me, he made it out to be his girlfriend's fault, because she went to bed early.

I am concern with his reasoning, but I wonder how does he feel about it. Did he say, "yea, I know that's not a good excuse and I feel very bad about it even today" then that is a good sign.

If even after all these years to think and feel about it his answer is more accusatory and lack of remorse then I say it is an iffy situation for him to feel like that. We can change though.

[Gigabitch]

Been waiting for you all day, Mish.

I see a lie in degrees, like murder. There's the white lie, which is Fourth degree, a misdemeanor. Then, the sin of omission, which is a third-degree lie. Then we have obfuscation, that swampy area where we lead people to where they are most comfortable. Second degree.

Then we have what I'm dealing with: The first-degree lie. When I said, "Did you sleep with Whatsername?" he replied with, "Huh? Of course not! That would be like sleeping with my sister!"

Bald-faced, look-you-in-the-eye bullshit, that.

[lesa]

And later, lying to me will become somehow my fault, because I "gave him no choice".

Me no like this statment. I hope he does not feel like that.

[Gigabitch]

If even after all these years to think and feel about it his answer is more accusatory and lack of remorse then I say it is an iffy situation for him to feel like that.

This is a concern of mine as well. It was, "You had no right to ask that question in the first place", rather than, "I have been lying to you for a year and a half, it's eating me away, I'm so sorry..."

[misombra]

All right. I'll tell you. If you mean, why is he so very, very close with her ex, it's because she dated his brother for many years. His brother.



To put it plainly: he and his ex had reached a point in their relationship where things were not easy. They went on vacation with some friends of hers, she chose to go to bed early, and he chose to stay up late and proceed to get totally drunk with her friend and end up in bed with her.

The part that I found really appalling about this story was that later, when he was confessing this to me, he made it out to be his girlfriend's fault, because she went to bed early.

Okay, I can't really marry this guy, can I, no matter how much I love him?



I don't know if he is, but I sure am.

holy freakin cow how did i miss the part where you said she was his brothers girlfriend!

that is ****kkkked.

and then his relationship got bad so he slept with somebody while his girlfriend was sleeping!!!!

i'm so sorry giga. that is some shit right there.

he sounds like an idiot. and he's turning you into a fool. (trying to, anyway)

[GrkScorp]

And later, lying to me will become somehow my fault, because I "gave him no choice".

This reminds me of The Heartbreak Kid.., with Ben Stiller.., when he gets married.., and she gets a sun-burn on the beach..

Her: This is all your fault!
Him: How is this my fault? I told you to put on the lotion, you didn't listen to me..
Her: Exactly! You told me to put on the lotion, and then I just wanted to prove you wrong.., and I ended up getting a sun-burn.., and it never would've happened if you wouldn't have told me to put on the lotion.., so it's all your fault!
Him: What?

I think he's a little TOO in touch with his feminine side

It's not your fault at all.., that his system of ethics and morals are fcuked up and out of place.., when two people are close and together.., and are about to get married.., they communicate.., and are comfortable enough to tell each other these things.., not keep secrets from each other.., and then blame the other person for somehow motivating them to keep it a secret or lie about it.., tell him to stop being a baby.., and grow up..

Best,

GrkScorp

[misombra]

i'm afraid this man has embarked on a pattern that is not likely to change.

his penis gets excited and he turns into a total retard.

i say only if you're willing to put up with this shit every couple of years you should not marry him. you know i didn't want to say it.

you deserve much better giga.

[lesa]

I'm not going to give advice on this as well, but just speak from experience. It takes me personally a while to trust a person. Even a partner in the early stages of the relationship. I reveal information very conservatively. But the more I trust the person the freer I become with the information because I know this information (no matter how sensitive) is in the right hands. Though, to get to that level for me it takes time. I found that some people deal in the same manner. Many aren't comfortable with revelation of extremely sensitive information to anyone no matter how close these people are, except maybe to a life partner a spouse. Some people see that you can keep secrets from friends and lovers, but you can't keep a secret from a husband or a wife. Can keep secrets from lovers, but not from husband or a wife. Think about this a little bit more.

I hope you will feel better soon.

I too am sorry that you are going through this situation.

I also have difficulty opening up. In fact I have major difficulties. I think one of my first posts on Love Forum illustrates it. If asked a sensitive topic I may do a: “I’d rather not talk about that at this time.” But I would assure them that it is nothing dealing with them or will hurt or affect them. I will give them enough information that they are asking of me. I am very open now with my new boyfriend though. I am learning to communicate much better, especially on information that I considered private but really is no big deal (again, it’s that introvert of me). If it is a topic that can affect them then yes I will have to give more information.

Then we have what I'm dealing with: The first-degree lie. When I said, "Did you sleep with Whatsername?" he replied with, "Huh? Of course not! That would be like sleeping with my sister!"

Bald-faced, look-you-in-the-eye bullshit, that.

I thought he did an omission to all the people he slept with, but he actually said that.

[Mish]

Been waiting for you all day, Mish.

I see a lie in degrees, like murder. There's the white lie, which is Fourth degree, a misdemeanor. Then, the sin of omission, which is a third-degree lie. Then we have obfuscation, that swampy area where we lead people to where they are most comfortable. Second degree.

Then we have what I'm dealing with: The first-degree lie. When I said, "Did you sleep with Whatsername?" he replied with, "Huh? Of course not! That would be like sleeping with my sister!"

Bald-faced, look-you-in-the-eye bullshit, that.

A first degree lie, I agree. And there are a couple of things to think about as well. I will post them here for you as I see them (you can add to the list if you like):

1. One huge first degree lie
2. His unethical behaviour with a vague reason (he cheated on his ex with this woman)
3. He's been lacking in trust department lately (I.e. his last job thread and other)
4. His over all feminine nature and sunflower effect

-------

Some of the things I would be thinking and weighting against one another in regards to the above if I was in your shoes

1. Negative - He lied and it's now very difficult to trust him. He shouldn't have lied in the first place, he should have trusted with this information from the very beginning. This lie is clearly his fault and it his serious implications on the relationshp
Positive - Have I ever witheld information from anyone which I thought was sensitive? Have I ever had reservations about trusting a close person before? Him revealing this now, a demonstration of his stupidity or demonstration of his growing trust?

2. Neagtive - How can you ever trust a cheater? Once a cheater is always a cheater. What kind of excuse is cheating on your partner if she's gone to bed early, what if he ever does this to me? I'd rather made sure this never happened and there is at least one way I can be certain of that
Positive - Am I someone who worries about other people's past mistakes too much? Have I ever done anything unethical in the past? Did I ever have sex with someone I shouldn't have and did it against my better judgement? Can that which happened before my relationship with this person be forgiven since it didn't involve me?

3. Negative - Will this always be like this? Will he always be this stupid, selfish and just plain wrong and will I always have to put up with it?
Positive - There will always be a negative or a flaw with anyone, I will have to put up with it in one way or the other. Are these flaws any worse than I can potentially find later?

4. Negative - I wish he just paid attention to me and noone else, I wish he just stopped being so freaking sensitive, I don't want to be married to a woman
Positive - I love his feminine qualities, do the his qualities I hate really outnumber the ones I love?

[lesa]

This reminds me of The Heartbreak Kid.., with Ben Stiller.., when he gets married.., and she gets a sun-burn on the beach..

Her: This is all your fault!
Him: How is this my fault? I told you to put on the lotion, you didn't listen to me..
Her: Exactly! You told me to put on the lotion, and then I just wanted to prove you wrong.., and I ended up getting a sun-burn.., and it never would've happened if you wouldn't have told me to put on the lotion.., so it's all your fault!
Him: What?

I think he's a little TOO in touch with his feminine side

It's not your fault at all.., that his system of ethics and morals are fcuked up and out of place.., when two people are close and together.., and are about to get married.., they communicate.., and are comfortable enough to tell each other these things.., not keep secrets from each other.., and then blame the other person for somehow motivating them to keep it a secret or lie about it.., tell him to stop being a baby.., and grow up..

Best,

GrkScorp

EEKKK, this is reminding me of my ex-fiancé and the reasons we broke up. Never cheated, no serious issues. In fact he was great except for one MAJOR issue: He kept blamimg almost (really) ALL his problems on others. It was bad it drove me insane. Oh, he was so cool, great personality and very faithful. But damn, it's his mother fault this happened, it's his uncle fault, it's the police fault, it's the rain fault, it's his boss's fault, it's the toddler who dropped the icecream on the floor fault, it's my fault. He really said all of these things (it's not made up). I have NEVER heard him ever say anything was his fault. It was his ONLY problem in my eyes. I believe it was because of his not so great past. If he doesn't take responsibility for ANY thing at all then he will do it for the rest of his life.

It literally drove me crazy.

[GrkScorp]

you deserve much better giga.

Definitely.., I still don't understand how someone as mature as you could consider the possibility of being compatible with someone as (to be nice) "not as mature" as him? Why do you tolerate it? I agree with Mis.., nothing against the guy.., but for someone like you.., you definitely deserve a lot better.., You're very forgiving Giga.., but there comes a point where forgiveness is no longer a virtue.., and just plain foolish.., you're awfully close to flirting with that fine line.. (if you haven't already crossed it)

Best,

GrkScorp