Describe the "feeling"

[Fnord]

There are a lot of people throwing 'science' around who seem to struggle with the difference between FACT and THEORY. A serious scientist should always be very sure when using the term FACT.

Just my two cents.

[Tiay]

damn it people, stop posting when i'm writing my long winded shit. well now I wrote it i'm not gonna throw it away, sorry OV.


lilwing: So.. you actually choose not to understand, not to learn, in order to suit your own feelings?

.......that REALLY staggers me. You.. know you're actively making an effort to deceive yourself, yet it still works?

As to god.. he's impossible to prove or disprove. This is the point that the "invisible pink unicorn" movement made. But, all the things that christians have said over time about evolution, the sun, the age of the earth, dinosaurs.. etc.. everything that we've been able to doubtlessly prove by science, has always proved religion wrong. What are the chances it's wrong about the other stuff too? Regardless, it's impossible to prove. I could claim there's an invisible rainbow on my shoulders and you couldn't disprove me. *sorry! repetitive much*

Yes, everyone can have their own beliefs. BUT not all beliefs are equal. It is not silly to argue over them.. except in this thread it is. To paraphrase/quote Douglas Adams; my belief is that the moon is made of rock. I can't prove it. But if you were to say "well, my view that it is made of cheese is therefore equally possible", then you are wrong, and silly. There is such a thing as the burden of proof- and in the case of god, the composition of the moon, and the link between chemicals/hormones and love, the burden of proof has shifted.

Thats exactly right. You do it too. Just to certain things, like say for example you are depressed and you realize you don't like how you feel so you make a effort to think positively even though your whole life has gone to hell. At first its like a joke because your just lying to yourself, but after a while a miracle happens... You realize your not pretending anymore and you are happy. Thats how it works.

zach; I can deceive myself into thinking that the pimple on my forehead is not as bad as it seems, or that events in my life are not as bad and that I can turn things around. I'm not contradicting proven scientific facts by doing that, I am just changing my attitude. But if I deceive myself into thinking that the moon is made of cheese and not rock.. I am still WRONG! and if you deceive yourself into thinking that chemicals in the brain do not cause feelings.. then, well, you're still wrong. And don't say that those are not the same thing, because they are; they're both proven facts, and if we assume for a second that i'm not a monkey and that the world is not a dream, then we must also assume that these proven facts are as true and as real as the keyboard you're typing on.

lol But when talking about "love" and even "God" for that matter I don't think it applies as well as you would like it too seeing that they are not constantly agitated by the sensory functions of our tangible bodies.

all you're saying here is that love and god and such are things that are easier for you to lie to yourself about, whereas the wall colour is not. that doesn't make the deception any less silly in both cases.

You demand cold hard truth to believe in something that is pretty likely, and which already has quite a lot of proof backing it up- in order to change your mind from believing in something that has absolutely NO proof! Again, this is exactly the same as demanding eye tests and colour analysis to believe that the wall is green, when it'd be much more obvious to just face the truth.
As OV has pointed out, in this case, I have more proof than you. it is up to YOU to prove your theory. If I claim that the wall is red, then it is up to me to prove it, because it sounds silly and there's no reason to believe it without proof.


as for the love triangle:

Interesting. I have no idea where I am on it, especially since the words in it are very subjective. It kind of puts me in mind of "Love expert" books, "10 steps to a better relationship" (why is it 10? why is the number based on the amount of fingers on our hands and the way we count?) and "key" phrases such as "action items!".
Then again, it could be a pretty good tool for assessing relationships, especially about what parts might be missing. I definitely agree all relationships go through stages.

[Tiay]

I gotta go sleep, this was fun though. gonna get very busy with college these days...

[Junket]

Wouldn't that be NOL? why use the end of Louisiana?

Because the it's New Orleans, LA

Just like it's Philadelphia, PA

or Key West, FL

Anyway, I didn't come up with it, it's a term used and seen down there.

EDIT: Shit, Aegis was already on top of that.

[The Great OV!!!]

Wow, Tiay...don't write and waste your time so much. It isn't worth it. These people could be proven wrong tomorrow and they would still believe and stick their heads up the church's ass.

to simply point out that it hasn't been proven that a god exists or not... sounds like a pretty neutral statement to me.

Thats fine, my point was that teenage mutant ninja turtles living in the core of Jupiter is a neutral statement equal to god exists or not.

[Zach]

lol ok guys time to clear a few things up. Lets see here.

zach; I can deceive myself into thinking that the pimple on my forehead is not as bad as it seems, or that events in my life are not as bad and that I can turn things around. I'm not contradicting proven scientific facts by doing that, I am just changing my attitude. But if I deceive myself into thinking that the moon is made of cheese and not rock.. I am still WRONG! and if you deceive yourself into thinking that chemicals in the brain do not cause feelings.. then, well, you're still wrong. And don't say that those are not the same thing, because they are; they're both proven facts, and if we assume for a second that i'm not a monkey and that the world is not a dream, then we must also assume that these proven facts are as true and as real as the keyboard you're typing on.

Don't get me wrong here, when it comes down to it I agree with what your saying. I assume that life is real. And no your not a monkey..lol But I make sure to never rule out that there is a possibility. Thats just something I try to keep in the back of my mind all the time to keep me on my toes.

You demand cold hard truth to believe in something that is pretty likely, and which already has quite a lot of proof backing it up- in order to change your mind from believing in something that has absolutely NO proof!

I just like to push everything to its limits and back to get a great understanding. Does that make sense to you?

As OV has pointed out, in this case, I have more proof than you. it is up to YOU to prove your theory. If I claim that the wall is red, then it is up to me to prove it, because it sounds silly and there's no reason to believe it without proof.

Technically, I don't have to prove anything. I never actually claimed anything, I was just playing devils advocate. lol When it comes down to it I don't know what I think about love or god.

Im actually agnostic. I have way too much experience in religious debate. Nowa days I just run devils advocate in hopes of getting some other perspectives. Its like an experiement. I've been taking Sociology ^^

Well I'm leaving the secrets of the universe alone for today its time for bed. Night all. <3

--Zach

[anachronistic]

Wow, Tiay...don't write and waste your time so much. It isn't worth it. These people could be proven wrong tomorrow and they would still believe and stick their heads up the church's ass.



Thats fine, my point was that teenage mutant ninja turtles living in the core of Jupiter is a neutral statement equal to god exists or not.

It is very obvious this post is aimed at me. YOU DON'T personally know me. You are assuming I go to church and whatnot.

Well it just so happens that I DON'T go to church. Because there is no 'church' for what I believe in.

Here is what I believe in terms of gods and what not;

I believe there is a creator. I believe this creator made this dimension. Just created. And then things evolved from there.

I believe in lesser gods in which help that ultimate god. One of those is none other than Jesus Christ. I believe in several others, many to which nobody would believe or understand, and I will not share these on this forum because I will only be challenged and shit.

I also believe in reincarnation. I do feel like I have lived this life before. Things places and people do not feel new, and I feel like I have seen this all before. If you have ever heard of 'deja vu', I feel it quite often. It is a 10 times a day experience. So I believe in reincarnation.

This is what I believe, although you had assumed I was a christian and what not. I was actually raised in a Christian family. I struggled believing in some parts. For a while, I actually didn't believe in anything. But I studied other religions, whom which agreed with my own standards and beliefs.

So technically I'm not anything. I am pro creation and evolution. I am part christian, buddhist, jewish, satanist, agnostic, and everything else. I have beliefs in a broad spectrum of religions, and I believe a mixed number of things.

Have you ever heard this quote?;

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it, unless it agrees with your own reason, and your own common sense."
-Buddha

Well, I live by this quote. I BELIEVE WHAT I ****ING WANT TO. So **** off, if all you are going to do is disrespect me for what I believe. I have not disrespected you or insulted what you believe in, and yet you tell me how I am going to go shove my head up some church's ass and some shit. Maybe you have your head so far up YOUR ass that you don't realize you are bashing other's beliefs. And you know that is like the #1 rule on here. Go read the rules. Then come back and apologize to all who you offended--if you are decent.

Tiay- I'm not really decieving myself. I disagree that there are direct connections between love and chemicals. I do, however, believe that there are certain things, like adrenaline and stuff, that are released and make you feel a certain way. But love is something different.

I am not decieving myself in any way, I simply choose to not study subjects like chemistry, because I can't be myself or share what I believe, because there are people like OV who don't accept people who believe anything that is not measured or proven by facts and shit.

[Zach]

It is very obvious this post is aimed at me. YOU DON'T personally know me. You are assuming I go to church and whatnot.

Well it just so happens that I DON'T go to church. Because there is no 'church' for what I believe in.

Here is what I believe in terms of gods and what not;

I believe there is a creator. I believe this creator made this dimension. Just created. And then things evolved from there.

I believe in lesser gods in which help that ultimate god. One of those is none other than Jesus Christ. I believe in several others, many to which nobody would believe or understand, and I will not share these on this forum because I will only be challenged and shit.

I also believe in reincarnation. I do feel like I have lived this life before. Things places and people do not feel new, and I feel like I have seen this all before. If you have ever heard of 'deja vu', I feel it quite often. It is a 10 times a day experience. So I believe in reincarnation.

This is what I believe, although you had assumed I was a christian and what not. I was actually raised in a Christian family. I struggled believing in some parts. For a while, I actually didn't believe in anything. But I studied other religions, whom which agreed with my own standards and beliefs.

So technically I'm not anything. I am pro creation and evolution. I am part christian, buddhist, jewish, satanist, agnostic, and everything else. I have beliefs in a broad spectrum of religions, and I believe a mixed number of things.

Have you ever heard this quote?;

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it, unless it agrees with your own reason, and your own common sense."
-Buddha

Well, I live by this quote. I BELIEVE WHAT I ****ING WANT TO. So **** off, if all you are going to do is disrespect me for what I believe. I have not disrespected you or insulted what you believe in, and yet you tell me how I am going to go shove my head up some church's ass and some shit. Maybe you have your head so far up YOUR ass that you don't realize you are bashing other's beliefs. And you know that is like the #1 rule on here. Go read the rules. Then come back and apologize to all who you offended--if you are decent.

Tiay- I'm not really decieving myself. I disagree that there are direct connections between love and chemicals. I do, however, believe that there are certain things, like adrenaline and stuff, that are released and make you feel a certain way. But love is something different.

I am not decieving myself in any way, I simply choose to not study subjects like chemistry, because I can't be myself or share what I believe, because there are people like OV who don't accept people who believe anything that is not measured or proven by facts and shit.

I wanna give you a reward for that post. Nicely done I think.

[The Great OV!!!]

It is very obvious this post is aimed at me. YOU DON'T personally know me. You are assuming I go to church and whatnot.

Well it just so happens that I DON'T go to church. Because there is no 'church' for what I believe in.

Here is what I believe in terms of gods and what not;

I believe there is a creator. I believe this creator made this dimension. Just created. And then things evolved from there.

I believe in lesser gods in which help that ultimate god. One of those is none other than Jesus Christ. I believe in several others, many to which nobody would believe or understand, and I will not share these on this forum because I will only be challenged and shit.

I also believe in reincarnation. I do feel like I have lived this life before. Things places and people do not feel new, and I feel like I have seen this all before. If you have ever heard of 'deja vu', I feel it quite often. It is a 10 times a day experience. So I believe in reincarnation.

This is what I believe, although you had assumed I was a christian and what not. I was actually raised in a Christian family. I struggled believing in some parts. For a while, I actually didn't believe in anything. But I studied other religions, whom which agreed with my own standards and beliefs.

So technically I'm not anything. I am pro creation and evolution. I am part christian, buddhist, jewish, satanist, agnostic, and everything else. I have beliefs in a broad spectrum of religions, and I believe a mixed number of things.

Have you ever heard this quote?;

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it, unless it agrees with your own reason, and your own common sense."
-Buddha

Well, I live by this quote. I BELIEVE WHAT I ****ING WANT TO. So **** off, if all you are going to do is disrespect me for what I believe. I have not disrespected you or insulted what you believe in, and yet you tell me how I am going to go shove my head up some church's ass and some shit. Maybe you have your head so far up YOUR ass that you don't realize you are bashing other's beliefs. And you know that is like the #1 rule on here. Go read the rules. Then come back and apologize to all who you offended--if you are decent.

Tiay- I'm not really decieving myself. I disagree that there are direct connections between love and chemicals. I do, however, believe that there are certain things, like adrenaline and stuff, that are released and make you feel a certain way. But love is something different.

I am not decieving myself in any way, I simply choose to not study subjects like chemistry, because I can't be myself or share what I believe, because there are people like OV who don't accept people who believe anything that is not measured or proven by facts and shit.

Man, what ever floats your ****ing boat. Chemical release during love has been proven through with science, it is not something anymore that can be just put away as opinion. You are just closed minded, she gave a good detail of how it works, not only that but gave you the names of the chemicals. You can believe in fairy tales and Zeus all you ****ing want though. The biggest problem with you is not that you believe in all this bogus shit but that you are on here spreading it..right now!...Jesus Christ a lesser god? wtf are you talking about? you are an agnostic and christian? what?! that doesn't even make any sense. What you need is a "logics" class. Give me a break.

I simply choose to not study subjects like chemistry, because I can't be myself or share what I believe, because there are people like OV who don't accept people who believe anything that is not measured or proven by facts and shit.

So basically choose to ignore the truth because you are afraid of it. Gotcha.

[anachronistic]

Man, what ever floats your ****ing boat. Chemical release during love has been proven though with science, it is not something anymore that can be just put away as opinion. You are just closed minded, she gave a good detail of how it works, not only that but gave you the names of the chemicals. You can believe in fairy tales and Zeus all you ****ing want though.

How am I so close minded when I believe a number of things from ALL religions? I have listened to many a thing, and chose what to believe from that. Go back and read my post, and get your info straight. Don't misquote just so you can pull this bullshit.

[The Great OV!!!]

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it, unless it agrees with your own reason, and your own common sense."
-Buddha

The Nazi common sense was that Jews smelled and so they killed them. Thanks for Justifying them. Have a nice day. Common sense is culture, what may be common sense to you is not common sense to someone else, doesn't make them right. I thought you took a social class? If I punch you in the face because I find it reasonable and common sense when you annoy me doesn't make it right. So the fact is, you can choose to ignore biology and chemistry ALL YOU WANT, it just that you are wrong...thats all.

How am I so close minded when I believe a number of things from ALL religions? I have listened to many a thing, and chose what to believe from that. Go back and read my post, and get your info straight. Don't misquote just so you can pull this bullshit.

So you believe in many gods? and somehow they all exist? that is odd, most people would use multi-religions as good evidence that they are ALL wrong. If you want to sound like you actually are open minded and tried everything before you accepted an idea then you should try science, as it seems to be the most widely accepted one so far.

[vashti]

Monotheistic religions all believe in the same God. They only differ in their beliefs about that God's nature and in how they worship.

God = Allah = Jesus

[The Great OV!!!]

Monotheistic religions all believe in the same God. They only differ in their beliefs about that God's nature and in how they worship.

God = Allah = Jesus

Sweet.....what is your point? They definitly do not equal buddah or Zeus.

[vashti]

Sorry; that was in response to this portion of your post:

So you believe in many gods? and somehow they all exist? that is odd, most people would use multi-religions as good evidence that they are ALL wrong.

I don't think lilwing was saying he believes in many gods, but rather that he takes bits and pieces from multiples religious traditions, all of which worship the same God.

[anachronistic]

The Nazi common sense was that Jews smelled and so they killed them. Thanks for Justifying them. Have a nice day. Common sense is cutlure, what may be common sense to you is not common sense to someone else, doesn't make them right. I thought you took a social class? If i punch you in the face because I find it reasonable and common sense when annoy me doesn't make it right. So the fact is, you can choose to ignore biology and chemistry ALL YOU WANT, it just that you are wrong...thats all.

Dude, I never said anywhere that I was affiliated with Nazis, or Hitler, or Holocaust. You are putting shit in my mouth.

I didn't say I was right, I didn't say you were wrong. All I ****ing said was what I believe and that you keep continually bashing me for my beliefs.

Yes I did take a social class. And if you punched me in the face, it might seem right to you, but not to me. That is when your freedom conflicts with my freedom. That is why there is laws to protect my face from your fist. You still have the option to punch me in the face, but whether you choose to do it or not, is your decision. Ofcourse there are penalties, and consequences. I never said there wasn't any. I can give you a whole ****ing lecture on this, if you really want.

I have taken GOD DAMN CHEMISTRY AND BIOLOGY CLASSES. I told you in the previous post, what I believe in a very general statement. Now you are looking for weakpoints in what I believe, and trying to bring me down. My advice to you is to stop it. Because you should only argue if you want to know why I believe in such a way.

I said that I believe in a number of things from all religions. Yes, that does mean I believe in particular biology and chemistry theories. But I also have other religious things that I believe in. But whenever I say "I don't believe such and such is true" there are always ****ers like you that aimlessly argue with me and say that I am wrong. If I am wrong, then prove it. You can't just say OMG GOD IS JUST BUTTERFLIES AND UNICORNS AND ZEUS AND FAIRYTALES just because you can't ****ing hold it in your hand or see it with your eyes. It isn't proven by science. There are theories, but it is NOT proven.