Does anybody else feel particularly patriotic on July 4th?

[Junket]

Yous are whack.

[doppelgaenger]

You guys argue about some of the stupidest shit.

[IndiReloaded]

DM, if you want ppl to start taking your opinions seriously you need to start expressing them in a way that doesn't involve insulting people.

Its just a sign of your insecurity that you need to call someone like Ygg (who has waay more experience/knowledge than you realize) stupid/retarded or whatever. Same as when you try this with me. When you know (or at least have some evidence) that I *do* happen to know what I'm about.

As for your parents opinion. Big deal. I have engineer relatives (close relatives) working for the military/government. Not private sector (like your folks). That doesn't mean *I* know anything about what THEY know, except perhaps their OPINION (which I would state as such). As you might agree, the spouse of a doctor doesn't mean they know anything about medicine (unless they also happen to be a physician).

Your comments often lack the experience to back up your points. This is fine; it doesn't necessarily make you wrong, but it does make you weak on context. So, if you want to actually learn something (instead of trying to impress us with what you don't know), be more stable in your arguments.

Even when you DO make a good point, it is often lost in your insulting delivery. There is a difference b/t making a solid, forceful argument and actually having to resort to insulting someone online (who you know very little about). It detracts from what you are trying to say.

But carry on. I'm having fun watching you try to slag Ygg without really having a clue what you are doing.

[Doc Durian]

I thought Doc was from Oz... ?

Expat who's spent a fair amount of years in Oz, actually.

[IndiReloaded]

There is only one Ireland...the Republic of....your low EQ score is showing, Princess. I guess there was something to that quiz after all.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland[/url]

[DoesntMatter]

But carry on. I'm having fun watching you try to slag Ygg without really having a clue what you are doing.

I'm glad you're enjoying yourself but... you are making this out to be more complicated than it is

It comes down to: Ygg said engineering was a service sector industry. I said it was not. Engineering is almost never classified as a service sector industry because the end result of the labor are tangible goods with tangible value

You care more about who makes the argument than what the argument actually is

That is the only thing this is about and what it all boils down to (and all it ever was). Is engineering a service sector industry? No, it is not. That is my claim, and the claim of the almost all economists and people with a clue. That is all I ever claimed

^ So with that being said, how is it I do not have a clue? Am I wrong about that?

[Doc Durian]

As I said, you simply don't know what you're talking about. US to Australian public transport system is incomparable, take it from some who's seen both. You're just trying to show off your penis and I'm not interested in it's smallness.

Ohhhh, you've seen both, have you? Good for you, globetrotter.

What do the dimensions of my genitals have to do with the topic? Why are you thinking about my penis?

[Sonrisa]

i didn't read any of the pages, but to reply to the original post:

do i feel patriotic? no. for some reason i can only feel patriotic towards Russia. we must've been raised that way.

did i have fun? yes. did i get a paid friday off? yes.

God bless America.

[IndiReloaded]

I'm glad you're enjoying yourself but... you are making this out to be more complicated than it is

It comes down to: Ygg said engineering was a service sector industry. I said it was not. Engineering is almost never classified as a service sector industry because the end result of the labor are tangible goods with tangible value

You care more about who makes the argument than what the argument actually is

That is the only thing this is about and what it all boils down to (and all it ever was). Is engineering a service sector industry? No, it is not. That is my claim, and the claim of the almost all economists and people with a clue. That is all I ever claimed

^ So with that being said, how is it I do not have a clue? Am I wrong about that?

I would say you are both silly to try to bin 'engineering' in general as belonging to any particular economic sector. Engineers can & do work from almost ANY of them.

There are engineers who most definitely work in the 'service' (or tertiary) sector. Those working in IT, or urban planning, transport, just to name a few.

Those who work in secondary sector would include engineers like in my family (aerospace), which build or synthesize stuff. That's the manufacturing industry. Chemical engineers, civil (who build things like buildings & bridges), would also fall into this category.

There are also engineers who work in primary sectors (mining, agriculture, forestry). A geotechnical engineer might fall into such a category.

As for the rest, that is up to Ygg to share if he chooses.

[DoesntMatter]

I would say you are both silly to try to bin 'engineering' in general as belonging to any particular economic sector. Engineers can & do work from almost ANY of them.

There are engineers who most definitely work in the 'service' (or tertiary) sector. Those working in IT, or urban planning, transport, just to name a few.

I disagree it's silly to consider the "general" because most engineers do not work in the service sector, and those that do are generally at a bit of a stretch to be considered engineers

[IndiReloaded]

I disagree it's silly to consider the "general" because most engineers do not work in the service sector, and those that do are generally at a bit of a stretch to be considered engineers

Really? I'll have to mention that to my other relative, who is an exceptionally well-paid PEng who specializes in Human Factors. LOL.

But, if you want me to agree with you that most engineering involves applied science resulting in the production of something, then sure. Shrug. But your generalization is limited, as I just pointed out in this post and my previous one.

This is what I mean, tho DM. I have *experience* that is clearly wider than your opinion. So does Ygg.

[DoesntMatter]

Pointing out the exceptions doesn't mean much. It doesn't take experience to point that when you add up the engineers at Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Xerox, Kodak, Whirpool, GM, etc it's going to be larger than service sector engineering

For something like this, experience doesn't really count for much when you can look at the numbers. Just how I didn't need experience in Japan to know they work longer hours than we do

I could say I have experience being a college student and being in contact with tons of engineering majors. Most I know are chemical engineers, followed by mechanical, electrical and civil. Of the several engineering majors I knew who just graduated, all of them are going to grad school to continue in electrical or materials engineering. Most of the engineers get internships with Lockheed Martin or Raytheon

Or I could say I live in a (formely) engineering city where almost everyones mom or dad was an engineer or technician who worked for Eastman Chemical, or worked on camera lenses or printing presses or whatnot. Literally probably around 70% of kids I knew grewing up had a parent working as such

[Yggdrasil]

All the stuff you've been posting.

In case you haven't noticed (and I totaly don't mind you keep on arguing, because that's what it is, an argument, not a debate, with other people): I have withdrawn myself from this argument.

Now you can keep on going at it, but you do not have the power to make me post any further.

You may see that as me 'losing' the argument. Frankly, I don't care. Because a debate (not an argument) is not about winning or losing. Arguments are about winning or losing or being right or wrong.

So.. you keep on arguing, meanwhile, I spend my time in more constructive ways.

Fair enough?

Have a great day dude.

[DoesntMatter]

I don't see you as winning or losing. All I see is the continuing hobby of certain people claiming they are right by virtue of who they are and not what they say. Particularly Indi- "You've never been to Japana and cannot comment on how long their hours are. You do not know the same 1 or 2 dozen engineers I know and therefore cannot comment on its placement in a society." Honestly I probably know at least 10 times the number of engineers you (Indi) know, not even including school

[Yggdrasil]

^^^ I'm an electronics hardware engineer fyi.

I design, build and implement PLC's.

We happen to be in the service providing sector.

This not to argue. Just the way it is.