The God Illusion?

[NeoSeminole]

misombra says:

"proof:

one of the major laws/rules/standards of the scientific method is that science doesn't PROVE anything."

this is where proof beyond a reasonable doubt comes in. We can never be 100% certain of anything (e.g. God). However, that doesn't mean we should be agnostic otherwise you would have to be unsure about everything. In regards to God, theism is illogical b/c there is no evidence that supports the existence of a deity. This leaves atheism as the logical choice.

[Asip4u]

I am more spiritual rather then religious. I think in some ways religion (not the extreme form) is important to add balance and live with more caution. I thing God gave us all these tools and with them we can either create something good or we can further bury ourselves into the ground..Not all the progress we are making is for the good. We are ruining our planet by not being careful. Instead, we make something, have no idea what type of impact it will have years ahead and in the end that is what may kill us. There is such thing as going overboard.

[ecojeanne]

i wonder how many people in the world believe and is it growing or decreasing, does anyone know?

[misombra]

misombra says:

"proof:

one of the major laws/rules/standards of the scientific method is that science doesn't PROVE anything."

this is where proof beyond a reasonable doubt comes in. We can never be 100% certain of anything (e.g. God). However, that doesn't mean we should be agnostic otherwise you would have to be unsure about everything. In regards to God, theism is illogical b/c there is no evidence that supports the existence of a deity. This leaves atheism as the logical choice.

yeah, it's true. i'm not trying to argue or make anyone believe in god. i've spent most of my life thinking about and trying to figure it out and recovering from catholicism. i like to think differently. i think of god as nature. the universe. chemicals coming together and forming things.

that exists beyond a reasonable doubt, therefore it is my proof.

religious people feel differently, i know this. my whole family is very religious. catholic/christian. but i have santos and rosarios because it makes me feel connected to my ancestors. it's part of my culture. so to me, god exists, and religion is not always bad.

[little pingoin]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion[/url]

Belief in something greater than ourselves has always provided us a measure of hope, security and purpose. For that alone, I believe religion will always exist as an integral part of humanity.

[Gribble]

What has religion done for us? What has prayer accomplished?

I'd like to see someone stack science against religion and see which has done the most good, which has benefited the most people.

All the prayer in the world couldn't accomplish what penicillin has done for us. If not for science very few of you would be alive.

Instead of looking for something greater learn to accept that we are the greatest thing in the known universe. Why can't you take comfort in that? In 300 years time we've accomplished so much. I can't even fathom what we will have accomplished in another. Certainly more than any god has ever promised us.

If religion must exist, fine. I don't like it. I can barely tolerate it, but if you keep it away from me, whatever. BUT! We have got to separate it from politics. It should be career suicide for a politician to mention anything about it. We've got to keep it out of schools. We've got to stop forcing it on young minds.

I'll stop trying to stomp it out of existence the day I see that happen.

[Mish]

What has religion done for us? What has prayer accomplished?

Everything from Schools to hospitals was done in the name of Religion. Maybe if it wasn't for Religion we wouldn't have the scientific advances we have today and be still living in the dark ages. Prayer is a type of meditation, it helps people to get into a positive state of mind instead of going postal.

I agree though that Religion and Politics should be separate.

The funny thing is that Religious people have the most amount of kids (when compared to atheists), I don't know why but it works out that way. From evolutionary perspective the ones with the most amount of offspring will prevail. Kinda ironic when you think about it

[boobaa]

That's true Miso. A lot of people don't understand this. It is logically impossible for any claim to be true no matter what.

What the Scientific Method does is allow us to make are *rational conclusions* based on available data. But, for something to be considered, "true" one must be able to at least *imagine* a *testable* scenario where the claim could be proved false. (E.g. water freezes a 4oC is a claim that can be proven false as soon as someone shows it freezes at 3oC instead.)

This is called the rule of Falsifiability.

If nothing conceivable could ever disprove a claim, then the evidence that does exist would not matter; it would be pointless to even examine the evidence, because the conclusion is already known -- the claim is invulnerable to any possible evidence.

This would not mean, however, that the claim is true; instead it would mean that the claim is meaningless. This is so because it is impossible -- logically impossible -- for any claim to be true no matter what. For every true claim, you can always conceive of evidence that would make the claim untrue -- in other words, again, every true claim is falsifiable.

So, claiming the existence of God is meaningless, just like Gribble's Pocket Hippo (which exists, but only to atheists and only when the Hippo feels like showing itself).

but she made it sound like nonsense. Proof of what???


Hey, I have proof there is macarony in my mouth, therefore, God exists!


Mish. Actually lot of science was held back by religion.
And of course there were also times, when religion was just a theory, before Christ and that bastard Konstantinus happened. Just like philosophy was once know as science, nowadays its more like an art form, or just viewed as separate from science.

If hospitals were created in the believe of God, why then is there medicine? Yeah shure, Fleming discovered penicillin with the help of God... No, he didn't believe any of this shit. Or are you thinking about Red Cross, Mother Theresa etc? Well, Red Cross was also, derived from war, not God. Mother Theresa left people dieing, no medicine, just prayers. Its not how good you are, its how pitiful you can make something... that's where the fame comes.


Christianity is ****ed up. So, God gave you life, you do almost all the sins, and yet you pray and pity... Why not just die and give room to others?

[Gribble]

Everything from Schools to hospitals was done in the name of Religion. Maybe if it wasn't for Religion we wouldn't have the scientific advances we have today and be still living in the dark ages. Prayer is a type of meditation, it helps people to get into a positive state of mind instead of going postal.

Was done. Was. Religion or no religion, schools and hospitals aren't going anywhere. Hell, had religion been left to its own devices those schools and hospitals would be useless. Forget surgery. Opening the human body would be considered an abomination. About the best you could hope for is to have a couple of leeches slapped onto your neck and some uneducated nun to clasp her hands and wish real hard that you get better.

And quite frankly, if the only thing between you and a machete-wielding murder-spree is a prayer to an imaginary friend, I want you locked up in a mental hospital. Are religious people truly so evil? Would they be out raping and killing if not for their god? Ugh. I know plenty of atheists who lead perfectly law-abiding and positive lives. They don't need prayers or gods to convince them to do right. What a horrible, horrible bunch of people Catholics, Muslims, etc., etc. must be.

The funny thing is that Religious people have the most amount of kids (when compared to atheists), I don't know why but it works out that way. From evolutionary perspective the ones with the most amount of offspring will prevail. Kinda ironic when you think about it

Go watch Idiocracy if you haven't seen it all ready.

[IndiReloaded]

i wonder how many people in the world believe and is it growing or decreasing, does anyone know?

I imagine its increasing, Eco, but I don't know the numbers for sure. I'd bet its mostly due to India, China and Islamic countries whose populations are increasing. Also due to ignorance, FWIW. Tho China is trying to get control of its population.

Of course, smoking is also increasing in countries like China. So, just b/c the numbers are going up doesn't make it a good thing.

[Mish]

Was done.

You asked what's Religion has ever done for humanity and I replied with an answer. The answer is a lot.

And quite frankly, if the only thing between you and a machete-wielding murder-spree is a prayer to an imaginary friend,

No. Like I said, it's a type of meditation. It gets you into a positive state of mind. I think more people should meditate and see the world through a positive lens. And yes I believe less people would be going postal if they saw the world through a positive filter instead of a negative one which is popular these days.

Go watch Idiocracy if you haven't seen it all ready.

I saw it, it's a great film by the way.

The sad reality is Religion gives people meaning and purpose, it gives them a mission in life. Atheism on the other hand strips that purpose away. I think it's no wonder then that Religious people dominate in numbers and unless there's a change in the future it will always stay that way.

[IndiReloaded]

The sad reality is Religion gives people meaning and purpose, it gives them a mission in life. Atheism on the other hand strips that purpose away. I think it's no wonder then that Religious people dominate in numbers and unless there's a change in the future it will always stay that way.

I agree that until there is some better substitute, many people will continue to need something like religion in their lives to give them a sense of purpose. I don't agree that atheism strips that purpose away tho. What is does is provide *choice*. Those who wish to believe can continue to do so, but what they can't do is live in the darkness that their belief is a rational choice. Its not. Just like smoking isn't a rational choice, but that doesn't stop millions of people from needing it or enjoying it.

[Mish]

I don't agree that atheism strips that purpose away tho. What is does is provide *choice*. Those who wish to believe can continue to do so, but what they can't do is live in the darkness that their belief is a rational choice.

Thus Atheism does not provide a REAL choice, but an illusion of a choice. You can't tell someone 'you can "choose" to buy these clothes, as long as you know you look really ugly in them'.

It's like saying to a kid, 'you can "choose" not to do your homework as long as you know I'm going to belt you for it until you do'.

[IndiReloaded]

Mish, you are describing religion, who indoctrinate their children young, and without choice. And beat their children. Atheism doesn't do this. Sorry, 'spare the rod, spoil the child' is a biblical saying.

[Mish]

Mish, you are describing religion, who indoctrinate their children young, and without choice. And beat their children. Atheism doesn't do this. Sorry, 'spare the rod, spoil the child' is a biblical saying.

It's not a purpose of either Religion nor Atheism to provide choice. Look at these components for what they really are. The purpose of Religion is to provide deep meaning in life, a common goal the followers can aspire to and a life mission. The purpose of Atheism is to take those away. Is it any wonder then that the former is more popular?