Mum or Law?

[IndiReloaded]

I also understand Vashti's response, but I don't agree with it. In our society, there isn't the need to lie about such a thing and it undermines teaching of self-respect and responsibility. I will try to state more clearly: if you truly believe there is that need in your society, then I would suggest its unsafe and seriously flawed enough I would encourage you to leave that society. Its one of the reasons we left the US, in fact. The legal system there is close to out of control. I think too many people who deserve justice don't get it, hence the chaos of things like the LA riots and OJ Simpson.

So, where is the ethical boundary for such decisions? How about the teenager who drives drunk/steals/sells drugs/robs a store, kills someone and gets off b/c someone lied. Then does it again? Happens a lot in this society. Either through outright lies or soft, enabling judges who let a sob story sway them that creates these repeat offenders b/c they learn that the system is without teeth. Who isn't a 'victim' these days without some excuse or sob story? (that's your connection Dopple, btw) Choice and responsibility has become largely uncoupled. People will nod their heads in agreement until the shit lands in their own backyard and then they think they should be the exception. Based on what criteria? What extraordinary place in society or service have they performed to deserve to stand apart from the rest?

In my example, drunk driving isn't an accident, its a conscious choice. So, for someone like my own son or Vashtis--they are more than intelligent enough to realize the consequences of their choice. I happen to think I would actually be doing my son a longterm harm if I didn't let him take responsibility for what happens when he is allowed to get behind the wheel of a 2 ton vehicle. Such a lie would be more for the mother's self-interest than her child's, IMO. I do think that prison for a first time offense that is clearly a tragic mistake is overkill. But something like a severe penalty and a lot of community service and working with victims of drunk driving would be entirely appropriate and I would never lie to allow my son or anyone avoid their responsibility and chance to redeem themselves. Its character building to make mistakes and take responsibility. Its not character building to have mommy lie for you once you reach the age for making adult decisions.

[Asip4u]

I like your explanation and i would love to be part of society where everything is even like that, unfortunately, and you explained it well, the legal system has many holes. Bad people get away with a lot of shit so if i never did anything wrong and happen to do something by accident, why should i not try to get out? Again, if it was all so perfect, i'd go with it, but it isn't and i doubt it can ever be.

[IndiReloaded]

What's the logical extension of that argument, tho, Asip? Law of the jungle. What's interesting to me is how, historically during times of trouble (e.g. WWII) the majority will stand (or hide) on the shoulders of the few who are willing to stick their necks out for the rest. Its largely unappreciated how most of us owe our very existence to those people, their principles and sacrifices for those principles. What are we giving up when we compromise them, and for what purpose? That is the problem I have with this attitude:

The 'morality of compromise' sounds contradictory. Compromise is usually a sign of weakness, or an admission of defeat. Strong (wo)men don't compromise, it is said, and principles should never be compromised. I shall argue that strong (wo)men, conversely, know when to compromise and that all principles can be compromised to serve a greater principle.