Why are nices guys unlucky in love?

[Wakeup]

You represent exactly the kind of people I hate in this earth!

I expect give back, give back, give back.

So sorry that you see this as unreasonable.

Sweety pie. A wise man in this forum once Quoted Al Frankin saying "It is easier to wear slippers than to try and carpet the whole world." the world, and the people in it are what they are. It is up to you to adjust to fit in. It's not up to everyone else to adjust to accomodate your weakness. You can hate me all you want, it does not change the fact that you fail with women while you fight the change YOU need to make in order to garner yourself a woman who is respectful and reciprocol in her love.

The common denominator here is you. The question: Who needs to change his M.O? The answer is: You "formadmenonly"

[ForMadmenOnly]

I know it's bad to generalize but..... let's do it anyway

It is the simple rule of cause and effect. People take take take because YOU keep giving. Regardless of what they do
I have been like you too. But I am working hard to step out of it.

" Hey man can I have your notes? My PC crashed yesterday and I have a test soon "
And then you ask something back and they don't have time.

This is where your self worth comes in. Women feel you give give give and they exploit it.
STOP GIVING stuff for no reason dude!!!!!

And there is no reason to go after people on this forum because they tell you the naked truth, which is that you are a pushover AT THIS POINT.
Face it and do something about it

You have exactly 2 options

1) You drown in your own self pity and moan to people with good intentions. And you'll keep failing in relationships
2) You improve your self worth like me, stop idolizing worthless women that you're attracted to because they don't have the issues you have. And slowly but surely you'll gain succes.

If you shoot me a private message with your email address, I can send you very high quality audio files to change your mindset like I am changing mine.

OK, this thread is becoming much more personal than what I would like to. So I would appreciate it if we stop it here :-)

Thanks!

[ForMadmenOnly]

Sweety pie. A wise man in this forum once Quoted Al Frankin saying "It is easier to wear slippers than to try and carpet the whole world." the world, and the people in it are what they are. It is up to you to adjust to fit in. It's not up to everyone else to adjust to accomodate your weakness. You can hate me all you want, it does not change the fact that you fail with women while you fight the change YOU need to make in order to garner yourself a woman who is respectful and reciprocol in her love.

The common denominator here is you. The question: Who needs to change his M.O? The answer is: You "formadmenonly"

That's not true. We are not living in a jungle. And the foundation of society is justice and being nice to each other.

Having a weakness is one thing. Others taking advantage of the weakness is a completely different story.

As I said I never complained about cool or popular or whatever kind of woman not falling for me.

I complained about women who take advantage of my weakness.

Sure fixing my weakness is a way to fix the problem, and I never argued against it. This does NOT mean however that what they did was right.

If a weak man goes to the court because somebody beat him up, the judge will not say well mate go out and exercise so you can fight back.

See what I mean?

And yes well hate is too strong word but the people who are un-respectful and ungrateful are not people I want to have anything to do with.

And people who "Take take take when they are given, but not give back" or people who believe that this is ok are ungrateful.

[Wakeup]

I'm not saying you're wrong with this quote, but some good women really do fall for these assholes. They are good women but they need a lot of time to realize how wrong it is what they are doing.

DO NOT make excuses for your lack of assertivness, indpendence and the ability to say no by accusing woman of falling for the bad boy. Women who are worth knowing may fall for an fvcktard because he does not show his fvcktard tendencies immediately. He is a good guy with an edge up until he knows he has her and then he cheats, controls, beats, or is generally apathetic to her needs. It is the woman that stays after he does those things that is the woman that is not worth having. She is insecure, issued, codependent. A woman who is NONE of those things will leave upon the first show of bad treatment.

Young women tend to misunderstand the difference between a good guy with an edge, and a complete asshole.

Please do no lump all young women into that category. My daughter immediately dumped a guy when he continued to show her asshole behaviour after her opening communicating with him that his treatment of her devalued her. She is in a long term relationship with a true guy with an edge now and we couldn't be happier for her... even when he tells her "No" when she needst to be told no. She tells him no when he needs it as well..

As years go by and those women improve their self worth, I believe some succeed in making a distinction between those 2 types of men.
But it can take a whole lot of years. I met many women like that in college. Smart women with qualities

It comes from knowledge it does not come from age although those who have learned through experience and don't repeat mistakes can learn it later in years.

Women want a good guy with an edge.

But what can that edge be?

re-read the thread it's been mentioned by myself and smackie and other women in her several times.

Cheating on her because of a weak moment is an edge.

Don't be silly. (and quit blaming your weakness on women by believing that they like men who mis-treat them. We do not. Anyone who stays with that type of man is issued and you don't really want her anyway.

The bad guy will cheat on her consistently and she'll end up mistaking him for a good guy with an edge. " It's my fault. I should have given him more sex.. " etc etc Is beating her an edge? " Well I insulted him and he had a hard day at work " Bad timing, unlucky momentum is what they say then. Time for make up sex

Do you seriously believe your own rhetoric? As I said, any woman that stays around to be disrespected and abused by a bad guy is issued and needs some extensive help of her own to overcome them. They might be overly "nice" even like some men I'm reading here.

In theory the whole nice guy - good guy - bad guy concept sounds interesting but in reality they are hard to separate

No, no they are not. A woman worth knowing, knows when to distance herself from abuse and disrespect.

You refer to " Women worth having". What would be their characteristics?

I'm sad for you that you have never had the pleasure of being with a woman who know what she wants and will not put up with a man that is bad. You need to hone your picker.

There are women out there with a lot of great qualities, but lacking self worth and self esteem. I know dozens of them
Being in relationships with complete lazy respectless assholes but failing to step out of it bc of various reasons.
Kids, finances, family pressure, not daring to kick the long lasting habit. A lot of psychological stuff

I wonder what you mean with women "not worth having" then

The women you just mentioned are not worth having. They are codependent and afraid to be with a good man because they think they are't worthy of being respected, loved properly, and they believe they are incapable of being in a healthy, happy, interdependent partnership. They're like "nice" guys only they don't have dangly bits.

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[MynameisJesus]

OK, this thread is becoming much more personal than what I would like to. So I would appreciate it if we stop it here :-)

Thanks!

The truth hurts. It has hurt me too

For some reason I think you posted because it is frustrating you. And you are seeking for sympathy instead of a solution.
That is how I perceive it. But if you tell me to stop, I will.
But your "bad luck" won't stop

The offer is still open. Good luck

[Wakeup]

That's not true. We are not living in a jungle. And the foundation of society is justice and being nice to each other.

Yes it is. However: It is not being a man who gives and gives and keeps giving while he DOES NOT get anything back. There is the difference. You are well to give but you are foolish to keep doing it while you resent not getting back. If you want to give and give and give for the sake of giving then stop expecting to get back.

Having a weakness is one thing. Others taking advantage of the weakness is a completely different story.

Thats where you come in. It is up to you to halt giving when you realize that someone is only taking advantage of you. It is up to you to stop rewarding bad behaviour by giving once again when it is not been earned.

As I said I never complained about cool or popular or whatever kind of woman not falling for me.

I complained about women who take advantage of my weakness.

Then do something about it. Geesh!

Sure fixing my weakness is a way to fix the problem, and I never argued against it. This does NOT mean however that what they did was right.

No one said it was right and if men like you would stop enabling entitlement princess's, and gold diggers then there wouldn't be so many of them. If they can't manipulate you then they will stop if they have NO ONE to manipulate.

If a weak man goes to the court because somebody beat him up, the judge will not say well mate go out and exercise so you can fight back.

See what I mean?

No, but the judge will stop enabling the guy who beat you up by punishing him in some way. The judge certainly won't say. Well, you beat him up, here's $50.00 buck go by yourself some flowers.

And yes well hate is too strong word but the people who are un-respectful and ungrateful are not people I want to have anything to do with.

Good, then make sure you distance yourself early on in your getting to know someone if they are showing you that they are taking advantage of you without any giving back. You don't need a woman like that ... convince yourself that you are better off without her. Reading "Codependent No more" will help you with obtaining that strength.

And people who "Take take take when they are given, but not give back" or people who believe that this is ok are ungrateful.

Then why do you keep giving to them?

[ForMadmenOnly]

The truth hurts. It has hurt me too

For some reason I think you posted because it is frustrating you. And you are seeking for sympathy instead of a solution.
That is how I perceive it. But if you tell me to stop, I will.
But your "bad luck" won't stop

The offer is still open. Good luck

Thanks man. I shouldn't have posted my reply to you, but make it a general one.

Anyway just to clear things up.

The whole thing with weak man is very very similar to the thing with weak women who get abused in a relationship and still stay.

Of course everybody knows they should dump the f*cking asshole. And of course its their fault as well for staying in a relationship which is abusive.

Now knowing your weakness is one thing. And complaining about people who have used your weakness is another thing.

You can call me fool but I don't want to change in respects to my kindness or the way I treat women.

What I do have to do is find a way to identify women who don't deserve it faster and stop them from getting in my life. I am sure there will be a woman out there who will appreciate the "give give give". For the rest I just want them to stay out of my life.

[Wakeup]

What I do have to do is find a way to identify women who don't deserve it faster and stop them from getting in my life. I am sure there will be a woman out there who will appreciate the "give give give". For the rest I just want them to stay out of my life.

After reading that, I think you have learned something about yourself from this thread.

[ForMadmenOnly]

Yes it is. However: It is not being a man who gives and gives and keeps giving while he DOES NOT get anything back. There is the difference. You are well to give but you are foolish to keep doing it while you resent not getting back. If you want to give and give and give for the sake of giving then stop expecting to get back.

Thats where you come in. It is up to you to halt giving when you realize that someone is only taking advantage of you. It is up to you to stop rewarding bad behaviour by giving once again when it is not been earned.

Then do something about it. Geesh!

No one said it was right and if men like you would stop enabling entitlement princess's, and gold diggers then there wouldn't be so many of them. If they can't manipulate you then they will stop if they have NO ONE to manipulate.

No, but the judge will stop enabling the guy who beat you up by punishing him in some way. The judge certainly won't say. Well, you beat him up, here's $50.00 buck go by yourself some flowers.

Good, then make sure you distance yourself early on in your getting to know someone if they are showing you that they are taking advantage of you without any giving back. You don't need a woman like that ... convince yourself that you are better off without her. Reading "Codependent No more" will help you with obtaining that strength.

Then why do you keep giving to them?

Who told you that I am not?

Complaining and whining about some past facts doesn't necessary mean that I am not taking pre-cautions in order for this not to happen again.

As I said my main problem is that those women know exactly how good men are from the start of the relationship. And they just take advantage of it. They just use them for rebound or to make themselves feel better and then dump them stating it was their fault. And that annoys me. And I think I have every right to call the "b*tches" and complain about them.

And when I posted on this thread I was consciously playing the role of the victim as it made me feel better. That's what I go from this this thread.

Now I have to ask you. Do you see yourself playing the role of the rescuer?

[url=http://www.relationships-explained.com/pages/Games.html]Games in relationships - games people play by Eric Berne[/url]

[smackie9]

I agree with you smackie9.

But I am not complaining, well maybe I did but was not right, that women don't like me for who I am.

I am complaining about women taking advantage of who I am. I complain about women seeing that I am a nice guy, taking as much as they can and then telling me its my fault when they get bored, although they enjoyed everything I gave to them. That is what I find unfair. Which is again of course my fault. I shouldn't let them do it in the first place.

But you know how easily people can be tricked and think: "This is the one!".

This is the thing....knowing when it happens, and taking control of the situation, and don't waste your time with those types. It's no different than girls avoiding a player....it's about being taken advantage of.

[ForMadmenOnly]

After reading that, I think you have learned something about yourself from this thread.

Maybe you canearn something too.. If you genuinely want to help people try using "you shouldn't have done this" or "you should do this".

People are more likely to see you as helpful that way.

Saying "you are weak", "you are insecure woose", etc will only make you enemies, because subconsciously fills YOUR hidden need of appearing superior, and not helping the other person.

And please stop behaving so arrogant. I didn't learn anything from you other than your need to be/appear "one up". You didn't rescue me or found a solution for me. Let me myself decide what I gained and from who and you focus on how you behaved and why.

[magictree]

It's a good point and so often true... But how can you understand women??? I think most of us guys need lessons in this! We never learned about it in school, that's for sure!
I take it you've just been dumped.. but, there are things you can do, and learn. You can maybe get some good advice here:
Totaltruths.com The site is run by 2 psychologists who specialize in relationships. I got some good tips here... It's worth a try!
Best of luck!

[Wakeup]

Maybe you canearn something too.. If you genuinely want to help people try using "you shouldn't have done this" or "you should do this".

You should have done it and you should have said it. How else should I respond to your defensiviness? You are fighting learning anything. I'm not here to be your friend... I'm here to give you my opinion and advice.. take it or leave it.

People are more likely to see you as helpful that way.

Some are not. likely to see me as helpful at all if they fight the need to change like you were doing.

Saying "you are weak", "you are insecure woose", etc will only make you enemies, because subconsciously fills YOUR hidden need of appearing superior, and not helping the other person.

You are a stranger to me (as I am to you) I don't mind if you don't like me as you don't mean anything to me personally. If I happen to make a friend then that is nice but I don't expect it.
You are a typical "nice" guy who in reality is not really nice at all because you are frustrated from being mistreated in your romantic pursuits. Most self proclaimed nice guys are manipulative and defensive and the exact opposit of "nice."

And please stop behaving so arrogant. I didn't learn anything from you other than your need to be/appear "one up". You didn't rescue me or found a solution for me. Let me myself decide what I gained and from who and you focus on how you behaved and why.

Reread what I said... I didn't say you learned anything from ME... I said it appears you learned something. It was apparent you had confidence issues before now, with this latest post it is even more apparent.

Now I have to ask you. Do you see yourself playing the role of the rescuer?

Not really... I do love playing the devils advocate though.

The question of this thread is Why are nice guys unlucky in love? I told you why you were. Sorry if the truth hurts and whether you believe it or not.... it is the truth.

Originally Posted by MynameisJesus
The truth hurts. It has hurt me too

For some reason I think you posted because it is frustrating you. And you are seeking for sympathy instead of a solution.
That is how I perceive it. But if you tell me to stop, I will.
But your "bad luck" won't stop

^^^ Quoted for truth.



Good luck in your personal development, "ForMadmanonly"

[ForMadmenOnly]

You are a typical "nice" guy who in reality is not really nice at all because you are frustrated from being mistreated in your romantic pursuits.. It was apparent you had confidence issues before now, with this latest post it is even more apparent.. Good luck in your personal development, "ForMadmanonly"

My god you are really nasty person, with serious psychological problems! You took EVERY word I voluntary said in this thread while asking for help, and hence making my self vulnerable, and used it against me to give your blows. Does the phrase "Kicking a dog when its down" ring any bells to you? Why do you hate so much? Why so much bile? Why are you trying so hard to hurt me? Really you cannot be sane.

Look. You are right. You are strong. You are amazing. And you always give excellent advices. You were not offending at all and everything was in my mind.

I am weak, I am pathetic, and have confidence issues and other many problems.

Are you happy now?

I kindly ask you to stop bothering me now. Feel free to reply to this post to show how superior you are and that you must have the last word and you must feed your EGO. I'll make you the favour of not replying to it anymore. But please stay out of my world after that.

[surfhb]

My god you are really nasty person, with serious psychological problems! You took EVERY word I voluntary said in this thread while asking for help, and hence making my self vulnerable, and used it against me to give your blows. Does the phrase "Kicking a dog when its down" ring any bells to you? Why do you hate so much?

Look. You are right. You are strong. You are amazing. And you always give excellent advices. You were not offending at all and everything was in my mind.

I am weak, I am pathetic, and have confidence issues and other many problems.

Are you happy now?

I kindly ask you to stop bothering me now. Feel free to reply to this post to show how superior you are and that you must have the last word and you must feed your EGO. I'll make you the favour of not replying to it anymore. But please stay out of my world after that.

Dude! Its not personal....Jeesh! Wakeup is trying to make a point by bringing to light your weaknesses. Im sure youre better at some things buts thats not the topic of conversation