do yourself a favor

[misombra]

you know what's helped me and m keep our commitment? dogs.

[Mish]

Yea, basically avoiding having the children hear all the yelling and neglect that "pretend" love has. Sounds like a good plan to me.

The children I know who grew up with single parents had it a lot worse than yelling and neglect believe me. Try not having any education because they were forced to work for a living when they hit puberty because mum can't provide any longer. Try getting abused by new mum's boyfriend. Running away from home. Living on the streets.

You are right, it will make it harder for me to leave when I am married, but I will still leave just that I will have to use little Bobby's college money to make sure I get a good lawyer and the bitch doesn't leave with my life.

In that case you shouldn't get married or have children with a future partner.

[misombra]

what about two people who are not married and are still a two parent household?

i thought maybe we were talking about them. there's something of a dichotomy going on in this argument.

also, what you just said is no different from my argument about abusive two parent households. there's a good number of both.

[Mish]

what about two people who are not married and are still a two parent household?

i thought maybe we were talking about them. there's something of a dichotomy going on in this argument.

My last reply was specific to OV's comments, not to what we discussed.

also, what you just said is no different from my argument about abusive two parent households. there's a good number of both.

I don't agree with abusive two parent households (married or non married). They should either find healthy solutions or split for good. Though in proportion to reasons why people split, these are a minority.

[misombra]

what are the reasons you think people get divorced?

[doppelgaenger]

The children I know who grew up with single parents had it a lot worse than yelling and neglect believe me. Try not having any education because they were forced to work for a living when they hit puberty because mum can't provide any longer. Try getting abused by new mum's boyfriend. Running away from home. Living on the streets.

Yeah some of that happened to me, though I won't disclose what. I think everything falls right where it belongs... like that Nine Inch Nails song. For instance, hard work has got me where I am going. I have a friend who grew up the child of a rich realtor and a high school teacher. He's pulling mediocre grades in college, because all he does is play video games and party. Parents buy him everything. I grew up the son of a single mom, with siblings. Somehow I made it out and ended up in college. If you ask me, it was hard work that got me here. And to be honest, I have better grades than that rich guy, and I have 3 times as many disciplines as him. The interesting thing is that there are a lot of people here at my college in the same situation. All made it out.

Sometimes we forget we are animals. We imagine this perfect world, where every child should start out at the same pace. But here in reality, that will never be viable. And it's hard to see that because we fabricate our own worlds Because we are animals susceptible to the laws of nature. The strong ones live on and the weak ones die off. The weak marriages crumble to divorce, the ones held together by strong love last to death. And that's the funny thing, we expect every marriage to last. We think every love is the same, and that it will conform to vows of marriage. Sometimes love isn't about commitment.

The people who get divorced are the ones who commit themselves without knowing any of that shit. They find out the hard way what all of this is, and then they realize it's not for them. So what? That's just how things are at this day in age. Bravo to anyone who does have a successful marriage. I just think it's silly to advise people not to get married because things didn't necessarily work out for you. That, my friends, is what we call ignorance!

[doppelgaenger]

what are the reasons you think people get divorced?

Impulse marriages. People these days get married before they know what love is... before they even know how a successful relationship takes place!

Well, in this country anyway.... I mean, you can't really say marriage in a vaccuum. Our society and everything has a lot to do with this stuff. Especially women's rights and women being independent.

[Mish]

what are the reasons you think people get divorced?

Majority of marriages statistically end due to irreconcilable differences.

What's sad is that with right understanding of communication, listening and empathic skills (and other), majority of those irreconcilable differences could be reconciled. People just don't invest enough of themselves to make somethings as complicated as a long term relationship work. On many occasions, because giving up is too easy and because they lack proper support.

[misombra]

so your argument is

a. people who are married have a more difficult time splitting up.
b. children are better off with people who aren't split up.

c. therefore people who care for their children are married.

???????????????????????????

i guess this is the argument.

thanks for thanking it cherryb. we haven't progressed much further from this.

[misombra]

Majority of marriages statistically end due to irreconcilable differences.

What's sad is that with right understanding of communication, listening and empathic skills (and other), majority of those irreconcilable differences could be reconciled. People just don't invest enough of themselves to make somethings as complicated as a long term relationship work. On many occasions, because giving up is too easy and because they lack proper support.

even with a contract? i thought you said it wasn't as easy?

[CherriBlossomGirl]

# Less premarital sex. One study found that girls from two-parent homes are less likely to experiment with premarital sex than girls from single-parent homes.

My parents were happily married. My sister experimented with sex and drugs.

# Better physical and emotional health. Even a child’s physical and emotional health benefit from living with both parents. Married homes can provide more supervision, which prevents accidents. Children in two-parent homes avoid the sadness, tension, anxiety, depression, and disruptive behavior that many children of divorced parents experience.

My sister had huge emotional issues all through high school. She resented authority and had depression. To this date, I have attempted suicide four times.

# Less abuse. Children living with both biological parents are at lower risk for being abused. Stepfathers and boyfriends abuse children at far higher rates than biological fathers. Research has shown that without the biological tie between father and child, men are more likely to take out their aggression on children.

My sister and I were abused severely. By our mother. Mostly emotionally, some physically. When I turned thirteen, she took to calling my sister and I names, like "slut" and "bitch". My father never said anything.

# Less poverty. Children of two-parent familiesare largely protected from poverty and the many disadvantages that it brings, such as high levels of stress, poor health, low academic achievement, and a weak social support system.

We were poor until I hit middle school. We (the kids) never realized how poor we were. We both got great grades during that time too.

My point is that anyone can be a bad parent, or a good parent for that matter, whether they're married our not.

And all those arguments aren't necessarily based on fact. They come from a biased site, firstly. Secondly, they are statistics and/or studies. Ever taken a statistics class? You can pretty much make a statistic say whatever you want it to. A study is just as flimsy because they can "study" a group of people that will offer the statistics they desire.

Actual references from the study or lab it came from are best, but still, it may not be factual or represent the truth.

[CherriBlossomGirl]

interesting.

true commitment is in your heart, not on paper. if somebody doesn't want to be with you, you can't force them to stay per contract.

oh yeah, and another way of "working it out" is also cheating. don't even get me started on how often that happens.

That was one of the first things I thought when I read about not leaving because you're married. People who feel trapped and are too lazy or cowardly to divorce usually turn to *ding ding ding*!!! Cheating!

[Mish]

even with a contract? i thought you said it wasn't as easy?

I was talking about non marital relationship on that one.

But yes, even in marriages, people don't invest themselves as much as they should to make it work. The time required to end the relationship is there in hopes they will seize the opportunity and put that time to the right use.

[Mish]

My point is that anyone can be a bad parent, or a good parent for that matter, whether they're married our not.

I think that is rather obvious. Marriage just gives additional benefits to the child discussed earlier. They are legal, psychological and cultural benefits. You can choose to give them just the basics or you can choose to give them the full cover. The choice is yours.

[Only-virgins]

In that case you shouldn't get married or have children with a future partner.

You can't tell me not to have children. It is my right to breed that nature gave me. I won't get married though, don't worry.