Measuring Intelligence?

[RSK]

okay, here is a start

[url]http://www.chrmglobal.com/Replies/2767/1/How-to-measure-potential-of-employees-.html[/url]

[IndiReloaded]

I didn't realize the OP was asking how to measure it. So naturally I defended myself after you disputed my definition. If you want a simple answer: I don't think we can measure intelligence. If you want to connect-the-dots and say this has something to do with not being able to measure 'potential,' then be my guest.

Well, I'm glad you finally remembered how to read. If you spent more time trying to learn (instead of trying to win via insult--big fail in this type of discussion), perhaps it wouldn't have taken you 5 pages to realize your error. Try to emulate Sanctuary; he was quite able to 'agree to disagree' in a civil way.

BTW, my dictionary seems to be different from yours. Here are the definitions I have for those terms:

Capacity - the ability or power to do, experience, or understand something

Potential - latent qualities or abilities that may be developed or lead to success in the future

The former describes a present ability (can be measured). The latter describes a possible future ability (cannot be measured).

So, if intelligence involves capacity, you can measure. If potential, you cannot.

What good is a definition you can't measure? Why bother with IQ tests at all?

I'll leave these questions for your brilliant mind to ponder.

@ RK - interesting link. I like how they make a clear distinction b/t potential and intelligence.

[NeoSeminole]

IndiReloaded says:

"Well, I'm glad you finally remembered how to read. If you spent more time trying to learn (instead of trying to win via insult--big fail in this type of discussion), perhaps it wouldn't have taken you 5 pages to realize your error. Try to emulate Sanctuary; he was quite able to 'agree to disagree' in a civil way."

oh silly Indi, what a shame you haven't moved beyond the monkey bars in your maturity and competence in debate. I can read just fine. In fact, I addressed part of the OP's question.

"What characteristics do you consider in intelligence?"

regarding insults, what are you.. like 5 yrs old? lol. Pushing someone and then crying unfair after he or she pushes you back only highlights your immaturity. I was returning the favor after you threw an insult(s) at me.

spare me the 'innocent' act like I'm to blame for taking 5 pages to settle our disagreement meanwhile you're in the clear. If you wanted to keep this thread on track, then all you had to do was simply ignore my original post. I was the one who had to say something otherwise your stubbornness and pride would have let our argument drag on.

furthermore, don't bother pitting me against Sanctuary by comparing us. He seems like an intelligent guy and we think alike, but he has his own methods and I have mine.

[NeoSeminole]

IndiReloaded says:

"What good is a definition you can't measure?"

there are many definitions that we cannot measure. Does this make them not true? No.

"Why bother with IQ tests at all?"

it's the folly of man to quantify everything b/c numbers give us something we can measure.

[IndiReloaded]

furthermore, don't bother pitting me against Sanctuary by comparing us. He seems like an intelligent guy and we think alike, but he has his own methods and I have mine.

Oh Neo, you are such as ass. Sanctuary isn't. You started with the insults in this thread (disagreeing with your definition isn't an insult except to you b/c you are insecure), go back and check. This is why you will never reach your unmeasurable 'potential', I guess. LOL.

[IndiReloaded]

it's the folly of man to quantify everything b/c numbers give us something we can measure.

Wow, do you write these gems of wisdom all by yourself? LOL.

[NeoSeminole]

IndiReloaded says:

"Oh Neo, you are such as ass. Sanctuary isn't. You started with the insults in this thread (disagreeing with your definition isn't an insult except to you b/c you are insecure), go back and check. This is why you will never reach your unmeasurable 'potential', I guess. LOL."

wrong, go back and read post #15 on the first page.

"Geeze. Do I have to spell *everything* out for you dumb bachelor graduates?"

so now you're reduced to lying on top of using insults and blaming me for your incompetency? Wow.. lol. Accept your defeat with grace! This is why you will never be at my level

[IndiReloaded]

Neo, I'm not going to waste another 5 pages of RKs thread on you. Your deep and thoughtful point is that intelligence can't be measured, so you're done as far as this discussion goes. That comment was a facetious reply AFTER you made a comment about my supposed doctorate.

I'll wait for someone more intelligent than you to post something that actually contributes to the discussion.

[NeoSeminole]

IndiReloaded says:

"Wow, do you write these gems of wisdom all by yourself? LOL"

when I wrote it, I had the lowest common denominator, such as yourself, in mind.

[IndiReloaded]

I'll wait for someone more intelligent than you to post something that actually contributes to the discussion.

______________________

[NeoSeminole]

why would you wait for someone more intelligent when you can't even handle me (with my lowly bachelor's degree)? haha, I guess convincing yourself that you're smarter is what it takes to make yourself feel better. Ah well...

[Aeradalia]

And to think I could have these two on a deserted island providing endless amounts of entertainment... sigh...

[lovesjoyajm]

I think the main problem with including "potential" in this argument is that it's even a more nebulous term than "intelligence". It's difficult to even wrap your mind around what the concept really means, let alone provide a precise, useful definition. If you're talking about musical ability, a person's "potential" could refer to their natural talent, which could be developed, through practice and study, into ability. This ability is arguably measurable by their performance/success in finding a job, winning competitions, etc.

What if we took the idea of "potential" from a physics context? If you consider a stationary object poised for a fall, its potential energy is determined by its relative position. If it's high up, and could fall a great distance and build up a great deal of kinetic energy, then it has a high potential energy - and this potential energy is the same whether it falls immediately, or stays stationary forever.

The interesting part is that something with kinetic energy is doing some sort of work - and that potential energy is measured recursively, through determining how much kinetic energy it would have, if it fell - how much work (measurable) it would do. Thus:

Potential is to potential energy as intelligence is to kinetic energy. Measuring intelligence involves measuring how much work is actually done - what the person can do, as demonstrated by their doing so. Maybe you can try to retroactively calculate their "potential" by looking at their actual, measured intelligence, combined with their "configuration" (probability of good schooling, effort of parents, extracurricular activities, whatever) but it is neither a measurement, nor useful.

[IndiReloaded]

Measuring intelligence involves measuring how much work is actually done - what the person can do, as demonstrated by their doing so.

Maybe you can try to retroactively calculate their "potential" by looking at their actual, measured intelligence, combined with their "configuration" (probability of good schooling, effort of parents, extracurricular activities, whatever) but it is neither a measurement, nor useful.

Well, that's interesting lovesjoy. I like your definition of intelligence and how you separate it from the concept of potential.

I was thinking something along the lines of this

Intelligence = Knowledge X Experience

If either of those terms is zero, the whole thing collapses to zero. Of course, measuring experience is about as difficult as measuring potential.

[Sanctuary]

Jesus what's wrong with you two?

Capacity - the ability or power to do, experience, or understand something

Potential - latent qualities or abilities that may be developed or lead to success in the future

Lol we're just debating semantics now. If you go to dictionary.com and go to the thesaurus and type in potential, capacity is one of the synonyms.

Quoting from dictionary.com on "capacity":

"applied to a person, ability and capacity mean about the same thing but are grammatically different: an ability to do something, a capacity for doing something; ability is qualitative while capacity is quantitative"

Capacity in essence is what your potential is. In other words, it's your ceiling for a talent or skill in that no matter how hard you tried you wouldn't be able to break that ceiling.