all men cheat according to my b/f!

[bluesummer]

Agreed. It's a whole lot of wasted time, trying to prove which gender is better at what, or who gets the short end of the stick where.....who cares. All I know is, I'm going to take care of myself and make myself the best PERSON I can be.....let people judge me based on that. Those who want to pin stereotypes and pointless stats on others are really missing the big picture.

[misombra]

summer---my mom was the same way. she was left without any means of supporting my sister and i and she always told us to get ahead in life and be sure we're able to take care of ourselves before we get married.

[mlejoy]

well... i have 7-10 days to give it some thought - my marine's sortie (that's his flight group) has been sent on a covert operation in which they can not communicate in any way with anyone until he gets back - he can't even tell me where he is going. so i have some time to figure out how i feel about him.

[NeoSeminole]

Good for you gals. I wish more girls could be like you. Then maybe we can get rid of these stupid divorce laws.

[bluesummer]

That's the way it should be.

[bluesummer]

well... i have 7-10 days to give it some thought - my marine's sortie (that's his flight group) has been sent on a covert operation in which they can not communicate in any way with anyone until he gets back - he can't even tell me where he is going. so i have some time to figure out how i feel about him.

Unfortunately, it's not always how you feel about about a person, but also whether their ideals fit with yours. You may love him to death, but if it is unacceptable to you that he would cheat, then it's best you just head trouble off at the pass.

[shh!]

I'm in college right now and I see most of the people who take easy majors like nursing, education, and fashion design are girls.

(Was this a joke? Because you know I've gone back to school for a nursing degree, don't you?)

You can't compare nursing to education and fashion. Nursing requires a science degree and the other two are liberal arts degrees. Depending on what you have more aptitude for, you might find one field of study more difficult than the other.

About the rest of your post: You know, I think it is funny you would argue this with me. Most people consider me to be pro-male, believe it or not. It is just that you seem to want to punish a woman financially for not staying married, whereas I truly see marriage as a contractual partnership in which assets should be divided equally in the event of dissolution, and I consider both partner's contributions to be equally valuable, although certainly different. Divorce courts in community-property states agree with me.

Also, your arguments seem to be centered entirely around the division of money, but money isn't all that is needed to raise a child. You seem to vastly undervalue the contribution being made by the mother (which actually does have a dollar value, as single fathers would agree).

If you want, I will break the rest of your post down point-by-point and show you how you are wrong (because it would be easy) but I will do it by PM because other people are tiring of this argument. But only if you want me to.

Now admit it: I won.

[Mish]

I hate to agree with majority over minority here, but I really do think that cheating is NOT acceptable be you a male or a female. I say this not only as a person but as man. You have to becareful not to overgeneralize cheating (Painting it as nothing more than just some casual fling with no cause for distress). Cheating is mostly a heavy investment in the OTHER person of time, affection, resources, while the SO is left as a nobody.

...And EVEN IF it wan't a heavy investment of the above from the guilty party, cheating in itself is the breaking point of Committment and Trust, which is the fabric that binds the relationship together. You cheat you break the trust, this trust is irreperaible and this concept is undebatable. Your partner is the person you trust with everything you hold dear in your life, all this is shattered when you can not trust that person anymore. Trust by the way (Unlike arguments about marriage) is not a religious construct, but a moral construct. As an example from our modern culture, you default on your loan or claim bancrupcy, no bank that has a history of your conduct will ever give you another loan (Because You broke the trust and your credit history is gone). The same holds true to every relationship, you break the trust and there is no point in continuing on because all you have left is endless uncertainty, doubt and worry...

I thought i'd throw in my 2 Cents

[lilwing89]

I know I will get a lot of slack for this, but I'm going to have to side with carpflounder. Sex is different for men and women. Guys can sleep with a girl and not have any feelings for her. Girls are more emotional. They require a certain level of intimacy before they give themselves to a man. If you don't believe me, find a girl to ask 10 random guys if they want to have sex. Now find a guy to ask 10 random girls if they want to have sex. I do not think cheating is okay in every situation. However, I believe it is acceptable in some cases.

i wouldnt just go ask 10 random girls to have sex

[NeoSeminole]

shh, I respect your opinions as always. The reason I compared nursing to liberal arts majors is b/c I was referring to undergraduate study. A bachelors degree in nursing does not require organic chemistry, biochemistry, or calculus, and usually has a "dumbed down" version of pre-med anatomy.

About the rest of my post, I find it funny that you think I want to financially punish the woman for not staying married. Call me crazy but I believe that both partners should take away from marriage what they put in. People need incentive to get off their lazy a** and earn a living. I think many women feel it's okay to make less money b/c the man will support them. Women use the excuse that they do most of the child-rearing.

I understand that money isn't all that is needed to raise a child. I also agree that the contribution made by the mother has a dollar value. No kidding. That is why we pay people to baby sit for us. You seem to vastly underestimate the father's role in raising a child. In fact, during adolescence the importance of the father rises dramatically - some would argue more than the mother.

If you want, you can critique my post piece-by-piece. I enjoy stimulating conversations. I doubt you will prove me wrong. More than likely, you will provide some anecdotal evidence like "well I know someone who knows someone who earns more than her husband." Feel free to PM me.

By the way, I would never say I won an argument even if I won ;-)

[Asip4u]

By the way, I would never say I won an argument even if I won ;-)

Why not?...especially with the sense of humor like she has...blah...some people take things too seriously...

[TAVS]

i wouldnt just go ask 10 random girls to have sex

Why not? It's for informational purposes only. Sounds fun.

[shh!]

The reason I compared nursing to liberal arts majors is b/c I was referring to undergraduate study. A bachelors degree in nursing does not require organic chemistry, biochemistry, or calculus, and usually has a "dumbed down" version of pre-med anatomy.

I have never heard of "dumbed down" versions of Anatomy, but maybe my school just doesn't offer it. And I don't consider anatomy to be a difficult course, just lots of memorization. You are right about the other classes, but I don't think the reason that people choose to work in nursing is because it doesn't require them to take those classes. If they were required, I would take them. (But I am glad they are not required, as I am more proficient in the Liberal Arts.) Besides, lots of good majors don't require those classes. Also, in defense of the Liberal Arts majors: the most brilliant professors I've taken teach Liberal Arts, and plenty of science majors can't write a decent essay, including the professors.

About the rest of my post, I find it funny that you think I want to financially punish the woman for not staying married. Call me crazy but I believe that both partners should take away from marriage what they put in. .

The problem with this is that women tend to fill roles that are less easily measured. I have worked (in advertising) and stayed home with my kids when they were little. Being home is definitely harder.

People need incentive to get off their lazy a** and earn a living. I think many women feel it's okay to make less money b/c the man will support them. Women use the excuse that they do most of the child-rearing
I understand that money isn't all that is needed to raise a child. I also agree that the contribution made by the mother has a dollar value. No kidding. That is why we pay people to baby sit for us. .

This is the kind of statement that makes women think you are a misogynist! I suppose there is no way to argue with someone who feels that having even more money is more important than their children, which I say because although there are some exceptions, I generally feel that babysitters are a poor substitute for good parents, even though sometimes it is a necessary arrangement. If you don't believe me, go volunteer some time in an elementary school working w/ kids. You can definitely tell which of the kids have parents that both work.

You vastly underestimate the father's role in raising a child. In fact, during adolescence the importance of the father rises dramatically - some would argue more than the mother..

No, I definitely do NOT undervalue the role of a father in their children's lives. Do you think that women stay in long term marriages because they are still crazy about their husbands after all those years? Hardly. I would guess it is very often because they realize how important dad is for the children.

By the way, I would never say I won an argument even if I won

But you DIDN'T win, so it doesn't matter.

[NeoSeminole]

I never said I won, but I don't think you won either. My point was that women earn less b/c they choose jobs that pay less (note: I'm referring to women in general). Men should not be penalized for this in divorce. How fair would it be if you agreed to work hard to support your family while your husband stays at home, and when you divorce he recieves half your money, the kids, and child support (I'm not including alimony) for doing an easier job? Don't use children as an excuse. Today, fathers and mothers share almost equal parenting responsibilities. I see no reason for women to earn less than men unless they choose to. So why do we still have these unfair divorce laws? You haven't quite answered this but you delcared yourself the winner. Amusing. I will answer your PMs when I have time.

[shh!]

How fair would it be if you agreed to work hard to support your family while your husband stays at home, and when you divorce he recieves half your money, the kids, and child support (I'm not including alimony) for doing an easier job?

I am very egalitarian about these things. If he is has a better connection to the kids and has taken care of them up to the time of divorce, then he should have physical custody because it would be the least disruptive for the kids. Whoever does it better should have them, male or female, but by doing it better, I don't mean whoever can afford to buy the kids the most junk.

I wouldn't consider the money "mine"; I would consider it "ours", and child support is for the care of the kids. What kind of parent would resent taking care of their own child(ren)? How could anyone be so selfish?

Today, fathers and mothers share almost equal parenting responsibilities.

No, they don't, and I challenge you to show me statistics from a reliable, unbiased source that will confirm this. I bet you can't.

So why do we still have these unfair divorce laws? You haven't quite answered this...

I thought I was clear. I don't consider them to be unfair.